Ron Heggs Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Manchester Central Station, CLC Goods Warehouse, GN Deansgate Goods Warehouse & Castlefield Viaducts Modelling Structures in Card and Foamboard One of the most important decisions to make is whether a particular building structure should be constructed from card only or card and foamboard Plastic card was not considered as suitable for this type of model structure, because of the variety of brickwork bonds, tendency to warp especially on large or long structures, the painting and finishing timescales and consistency of colour matching across such a large model, and overall build costs compared to other construction materials Foamboard & Card Large Structures 1. The CLC Goods Warehouse which is L shaped, with the longest leg 1680mm(L) x 200mm(W) x 200mm(H), and the shortest leg 910mm(L) x 200mm(W) x 200mm(H), was constructed in three sections 2. The GN Deansgate Goods Warehouse which is rectangular shaped, with a length of 950mm, a width of 870mm, and a height of 300mm, constructed as a single structure 3. The Canal Locks on Whitworth Street West. An open structure with support for small conventional building structures (Railway Hotel, Two Residential Properties and Lock-keepers Cottage (originally)) 4. The railway viaducts along Bridgewater Street. Long open structure with support for bridges and small maintenance building and GN Engine Shed 5. Bridge support structures – CLC on Deansgate , GN on Deansgate, GN on Great Bridgewater Street, GN on Bridgewater Street These structures comprise 5mm foamboard with a 1.5mm mount board external face, and printed card brickwork This has proven to be the most practical use of these materials – Light in weight, Warping all but non-existent, Relatively fast build, and a Surface finish standard across all the Model Structures PVA was used almost exclusively throughout the construction of these structures. Where plastic detail, such as beams, etc. needed to be fixed to the foamboard core, this was protected by wrapping the printed brickwork card over the foam using PVA, and the plastic items fixed to the card using Superglue A similar technique was employed where small sheets of plastic card (cobbles and paving slabs) needed to be fixed to foamboard. The foamboard was primed with neat PVA, and left to dry.The plastic card was then fixed to the foamboard using plastic solvent adhesive I haven’t carried out any tests to check whether this technique would work for large plastic card/foamboard surfaces. I would suggest that it is important that both sides are primed at the same time, in order to prevent warping All Card Small Structures 1. Station Restaurant Block 2. Station Office Block 3. Parcels Office Block 4. Crown Hotel 5. Railway Hotel 6. Deansgate Shops 7. GN Engine Shed 8. Station Water Tank 9. Signal Box These structures comprise two layers of 1.5mm mount board, and printed card brickwork The EXCEPTION The Train Shed Walls. These are both 2100mm long and 170mm high, with fully detailed external and internal faces. The windows and doors are viewable from both sides of each wall 3D views of External and Internal Faces of Station Walls These walls are constructed from four layers of 1.5mm mount board, one layer of 0.75mm card, and printed card brickwork to both faces. In addition, buttresses are affixed both internally and externally, these comprise of up to 5 layers of 1.5mm mount board Template for marking out the card cutting lines The arches are cut using a compass cutter – 5 to 6 strokes from the front side, then using the centre hole made by the compass, 5 to 6 more strokes from the rear of the card Note: The external and internal wall layers are offset on each section to reduce the tendency to warp and provide overlapping joint stability, which butt joints cannot provide Printed Card Brickwork Examination of photographs of the brickwork on the various structures showed that a number of brickwork bonds were in use The brick colouring whilst basically red or blue varied widely depending on the age, use, original choice/specification and supplier of the bricks This variety of bricks and bonds led me to conclude that I would have to create a complete range of graphic representations of brickwork that also gave a slight 3d effect when printed on plain card This took approximately 4/5 months drawing all the various brick bonds as graphic images, with random colour backgrounds. The printed image can combine any bond with any background, and the combined image can be manipulated to print lighter or darker, with lower or higher contrast. Each structure or part thereof can therefore have an individual brickwork colour/style to match the prototype The graphics files are created as BMP not JPG, which allows for pixel modifications without compression and subtle unnecessary changes to the original graphics Always print the brickwork card for each separate structure at the same print session, to ensure good colour matching. To ensure the correct and consistent colour match and surface finish it is recommended that all brickwork is printed on the same card type and thickness My preference for the plain white card is 135 gsm The following printed brickwork detail (shown at approx. half size) was used in the construction of the GN Deansgate Goods Warehouse Printed Card Cutting, Folding and Finishing Techniques Cutting When cutting card a steel rule should always be used NEVER USE PLASTIC OR ALUMINIUM My preference is for a square edged rule for paper and thin card, and a round edged safety rule with rubber pads under the back edge for thicker card The knife should be of the single straight cutting edge type. The blade should be held at a shallow angle square to the card surface, and with only a small amount of pressure stroked a number of times over the card surface to provide a clean straight cut NEVER ATTEMPT TO CUT THROUGH THE CARD IN ONE STROKE Folding To fold card where the surface angle is forwards then the front surface should be scored by a single knife stroke. This prevents the surface from forming compression folds within the angle Folding card where the surface angle is backwards, the back surface should be scored by a two single knife strokes approximately 0.2mm apart, being careful that only the surface is scored and the blade does not cut through the card. Practice on scrap card will soon make you proficient at gauging the correct pressure The thin strip of card surface between the two score lines should be removed by dragging the back of the blade across the surface and removing with a rub of the finger. A narrow trench should remain. Folding the card back will enable a sharp corner to be produced without any visible cut edges Jointing Where card to card butt joints are necessary they should be designed to occur where they can be disguised by surface details, such as drain pipes, buttresses, stepped brickwork, etc. If joints occur unavoidably at external corners, the cut edges should be coloured with a felt tip pen or acrylic paint. Test for the appropriate colour on scrap card before committing to the actual card in use Finishing The card surface can be weathered to produce water stains, soiling, and surface dirt and streaks by the use of pastel chalks, etc. To fix the finished card surface it is recommended it is sprayed with a coat of acrylic varnish Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
artizen Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Bloody hell!!!! Fabulous step-by-step and process. I use a similar but simpler approach to my buildings but I work in 1:24. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LN Lancs Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Ron, Saying thanks doesn't come close to what should be said after such an excellent post, very informative and educational, but thanks anyway! Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 I think most people would be rendered speechless by the sheer brilliance of the above exercise....B) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian Smeeton Posted January 30, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 30, 2011 In one post, almost all of my questions & queries regarding card modeling have been answered. I have gone through quite a bit of trial & error over the years, sometimes many years apart, so that lessons learned earlier have not always been remembered. I would happpily pay to see a workshop run by Mr Heggs as I am so impressed by his clear instructions & method. I am sure that many others have their own methods & means to the end, but to put this into print on the web, is THE most useful & informative way. Regards Ian PS Bookmarked! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share Posted January 30, 2011 Thanks for all your comments I thought my post only gave a brief outline of the techniques I have employed. Perhaps I should go into more detail for those of you who need to produce your own unique scratchbuilt models Suggestions on post(card) please !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Hi Ron The warping issue you mention with plasticard can be eliminated by using double sided tape to laminate large areas together. One comment I would make for anyone drawing their own walls is look very carefully at the colouring, especially the mortar courses. They start out light but in some ares they can end up a lot darker than the bricks due to the way the mortar traps dirt. This is far more common in cities than out in the country and was far more common up until the clean air acts or recent times. Hth Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy C Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I admire your perseverance and skill with this Ron, and thank you for the posting. Its a joy to read your progress on a project that i'd love to see in the flesh, and even more to the point invite as the stunning centrepiece of the Manchester MRS show. However I think our treasurer might have something to say about the shipping costs from Spain to Manchester Quite a while ago in the late 90s in fact, "Vulcan" of this parish was experimenting with this technique using Autocad. At the time the Rochdale MRG was building a P4 layout known as Brewery Lane Sidings and part of that layout was a model of John Willie Lees brewery at Middleton Junction. Vulcan started with this on Autocad. We actuallly ended up doing a demo of it at the Nottingham show when we were there with Spotland Bridge. We did have a basic structure built for the brew house, but the loss of our clubrooms meant the layout was stored and never did get built in the end, but the brew house model survived - but heres the cautionary bit - the colour on the brickwork has faded over the years despite it being kept in a place with not much natural light. I daresay the inks have improved over the years now, I presume the varnish will assist keeping the colour fast or are you using some other fixer as well? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Hi andy We use print guard to protect our large prints, it has uv protection in it whack normal varnishes don't always have. Our inks (Epson) boast that are light fast for 100 years. Since printers haven't been around that long I don't know how they know this! Hth Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share Posted January 30, 2011 Hi Ron The warping issue you mention with plasticard can be eliminated by using double sided tape to laminate large areas together. One comment I would make for anyone drawing their own walls is look very carefully at the colouring, especially the mortar courses. They start out light but in some ares they can end up a lot darker than the bricks due to the way the mortar traps dirt. This is far more common in cities than out in the country and was far more common up until the clean air acts or recent times. Hth Jim Hi, Jim Yes, any method using liquid adhesives and/or solvents to laminate layers of card and/or plastic, including surface treatments such as painting, will cause warping to a lgreater or lesser degree, due to evaporation during the drying period. It is how your method of construction and preparation overcomes it, which is important. Testing and trial builds are an important part of this I agree with your observations about the mortar course colouring. The pictures shown above are in JPG format, using the originals in BMP format the black line on the lower and right edge of the brick actually reduces the effective mortar line colour when it is printed. Although, I do have a range of brickwork with different and darker mortar line colouring to match the prototype. The degree of sharpness of the brick outlines can be adjusted at print time by selecting normal, photo or best photo. This allows new/modern and aged brickwork to be reproduced from the same basic image Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share Posted January 30, 2011 Hi andy We use print guard to protect our large prints, it has uv protection in it whack normal varnishes don't always have. Our inks (Epson) boast that are light fast for 100 years. Since printers haven't been around that long I don't know how they know this! Hth Jim Hi, Jim I use Epson inks in both my printers.As you say the inks are supposed to be light fast for 100 years, but I still take the precaution of keeping all my models out of natural light. The use of the acrylic varnish is just an attempt to reduce handling smears and damp absorption. Although I do have the models stored in a room with a dehumidifier running set on automatic during the January and February, which is our rainy season Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Hi Ron The downside to double sided tape and self adhesive foam board is it's instant. Means the build is fast but you have to get it right first time. I have seen baseboards that are well built but when the builder varnishes only the outsides they wonder why it warps! One thing your story reminds us of is how lucky we are and what we take for granted. If we need daywat we just order some, go to the model shop or wait for the next show. Is modelling in general not a popular pastime in Spain? You seem to struggle to find the basics sometimes Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share Posted January 30, 2011 I admire your perseverance and skill with this Ron, and thank you for the posting. Its a joy to read your progress on a project that i'd love to see in the flesh, and even more to the point invite as the stunning centrepiece of the Manchester MRS show. However I think our treasurer might have something to say about the shipping costs from Spain to Manchester Quite a while ago in the late 90s in fact, "Vulcan" of this parish was experimenting with this technique using Autocad. At the time the Rochdale MRG was building a P4 layout known as Brewery Lane Sidings and part of that layout was a model of John Willie Lees brewery at Middleton Junction. Vulcan started with this on Autocad. We actuallly ended up doing a demo of it at the Nottingham show when we were there with Spotland Bridge. We did have a basic structure built for the brew house, but the loss of our clubrooms meant the layout was stored and never did get built in the end, but the brew house model survived - but heres the cautionary bit - the colour on the brickwork has faded over the years despite it being kept in a place with not much natural light. I daresay the inks have improved over the years now, I presume the varnish will assist keeping the colour fast or are you using some other fixer as well? Hi, Andy I remember the John Willie Lees brewery at Middleton Junction during my many visits to Avros on Greengate in the 1960's. The bitter was a very nice pint Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share Posted January 30, 2011 Hi Ron The downside to double sided tape and self adhesive foam board is it's instant. Means the build is fast but you have to get it right first time. I have seen baseboards that are well built but when the builder varnishes only the outsides they wonder why it warps! One thing your story reminds us of is how lucky we are and what we take for granted. If we need daywat we just order some, go to the model shop or wait for the next show. Is modelling in general not a popular pastime in Spain? You seem to struggle to find the basics sometimes Cheers Jim Hi, Jim I think modelling is non-event with the Spanish. Possible due to the late start in an open society i.e. post 1975, and the general level of income for the ordinary Spaniard. Their pastimes are more sport and PC game orientated with a few artists thrown into the equation. It is left to one or more of us expats to show a bit more creativity and a view of past engineering prowess The model shops here are centred around aeroplane and boat plastic kits and car racing circuits. Online modelling suppliers are all but non-existent, where they do exist the range is limited and with extortionate prices (due to low demand and everything is imported ie. transport/postage costs). It is definitely cheaper to source everything via UK online/mail order suppliers, even with the additional postal charges. I am lucky that my three daughters (one over here in Spain) do travel fairly regularly back and forth, so the extra suitcase full of rolling stock and modelling materials does not appear to be a problem We have to be as creativity in our purchasing methods as in our modelling Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy C Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Hi, Andy I remember the John Willie Lees brewery at Middleton Junction during my many visits to Avros on Greengate in the 1960's. The bitter was a very nice pint Ron We did make a few visits to the brewery (we actually got permission from them to go in and measure up. Needless to say the wares were sampled, but after the measuements had been taken. Jims answer confirms my suspicion that inks have indeed got better, but also that he's not taking Epsons word as gospel is interesting. I had thought about playing with this for New Hey's goods shed but in the end resorted to embossed styrene sheet (SE Finecast) on 16th inch braced ply, mainly because I didnt want to take the risk of the fading problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share Posted January 30, 2011 I had thought about playing with this for New Hey's goods shed but in the end resorted to embossed styrene sheet (SE Finecast) on 16th inch braced ply, mainly because I didnt want to take the risk of the fading problem. Hi, Andy Never having built a model for exhibition, I should think plastic and ply construction is a better bet for exhibition layouts anyway, due to the stresses and strains and enviromental changes that they have to put up with. No doubt layout maintenance is an ongoing task, so anything which reduces this is a good thing. Re-builds are not something that should be considered appropriate. Both your own and your colleagues collective experience should be useful in this regard Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 Hi, All A little belated, but I must thank everyone who ticked the 'I Like it' box on this thread/topic (since end of January to most recent, today) Cheers Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 Thanks Bernard !! Have only recently found this feature, and just had to recognise all the followers of my topics Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 Thanks Arthur & Woodenhead !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted August 31, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 31, 2011 Only just found this one Ron... 'immediately adds to favourites' Having seen this building and your other structures including the train shed, one wonders how big the layout will be. Did you post an overall track plan / scope of works somewhere that I missed? Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 Only just found this one Ron... 'immediately adds to favourites' Having seen this building and your other structures including the train shed, one wonders how big the layout will be. Did you post an overall track plan / scope of works somewhere that I missed? Pete Link to reply http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/28293-manchester-central-castlefield-viaducts-modelling-structures/page__view__findpost__p__476314 Cheers Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 Thought i'd stick up a picture of one of the plans for the warehouse that are on view inside it if anyone visits it in Manchester (well sort of on view, actually in the security office). The cabinet in front contains a model of the warehouse modified to its current function with the car ramps in the back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted September 25, 2011 Author Share Posted September 25, 2011 Thought i'd stick up a picture of one of the plans for the warehouse that are on view inside it if anyone visits it in Manchester (well sort of on view, actually in the security office). The cabinet in front contains a model of the warehouse modified to its current function with the car ramps in the back. Hi, Craig That elevation is of the West side of the Warehouse i.e. facing towards Deansgate, with four external hoists and covered jiggers at ground level, a wide access for carts/lorries at first floor level to the left and rail access at ground and first floor levels on the right Thanks for your picture Cheers Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted September 26, 2011 Author Share Posted September 26, 2011 Sorry just catching up again with this dormant thread, which will come back to life again as the train shed roof structure nears completion Thanks to IC126, woodenhead, Arthur, Thos, phixer64 and Bedders !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted September 26, 2011 Author Share Posted September 26, 2011 Thanks Stefan !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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