Shedman1 Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 I am having derailment problems with mine going thro any sort of pointwork. Was this happening to yours prior to modification and if so did the changes prevent this happening? Thanks for the advice and clear step by step work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 I didnt try it through pointwork. I saw enough when it was clear the van would not self steer into reverse curves. Before the model arrived, I assumed the couplings were attached to the outer pony trucks to steer them into curves. As for fitting 14mm wheels, they will bind unless clearances are made for the wheel flanges. As someone has mentioned fitting Comet etched axleguards, this might be an opportune time to deal with these fittings. These are the etchings and axleguard castings.... The rectangular holes in the top plate of the axleguards required opening out quite a lot more to clear the wheel flanges. With Hornby or Bachmann 14mm coach wheels the slot needs to be even wider (see second picture below)..... Instead of fitting the axleguards directly to the floor, a spacer is needed. I used 18thou brass but I now know something thicker should have been used to bring the buffer height to correct level.... Outer axleguards in place on a Comet Stove R.... I used the primitive but highly effective swinging bar idea for the middle axle, but the Dapol Stove R method is just as effective.... The beauty of using Comet castings is the cast 'J' hangers are correct for the outer and middle axleguards (middle 'J' hangers are longer)... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Some nice work and a few good pointers there Coachman. A quick question, slightly off topic if I may? I left it a little late to order mine, (after the Maroon one had been out for about a month I think). I actually ordered a Maroon one though, just after Christmas, but have heard nothing. Will I have to wait for another batch to be delivered? Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shedman1 Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Many thanks for the extra info Coachman. Can I take it that the Dapol coach runs ok since your amendments? I've actually raised this issue with Hornby and their reply is "We have been made aware of a few running issues with a limited number of models and we are currently speaking with Dapol to see how this can be rectified." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 Sorry but I don't know anything about Ian Allan's ordering system. The coach runs fine since the alterations but I haven't tested it on the sharp curves found in trainsets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dilbert Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Many thanks for the extra info Coachman. Can I take it that the Dapol coach runs ok since your amendments? I've actually raised this issue with Hornby and their reply is "We have been made aware of a few running issues with a limited number of models and we are currently speaking with Dapol to see how this can be rectified." Interesting, I assumed that Hornby aren't implicated with this problem - Hornby Magazine for sure. It makes you wonder whether Hornby may be regretting the agreement to usage of the brandname with a 3rd party - it seems that confusion doth arise ... dilbert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shedman1 Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 I have min 24" rad on mine Peco code 75. They were derailing on most points (Min medium radius), slips and crossings. Nothing that a well engineered piece should have problems with. I'm pursuing the matter with Hornby Mag/Ian Allen since I consider its really their problem to solve, and whereas I admire your skills, feel that I'd like IA/Hornby mag to earn their money!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shedman1 Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Dildert - typo error. The issue was raised with Hornby MAG. Hornby Railways def not involved, Sorry to confuse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Interesting, I assumed that Hornby aren't implicated with this problem - Hornby Magazine for sure. It makes you wonder whether Hornby may be regretting the agreement to usage of the brandname with a 3rd party - it seems that confusion doth arise ... dilbert I did wonder that when I first saw someone mentioning that 'Hornby' were making a Stove R! Fine when it was going well, not so good now when its possible the confusion is in a negative conversation.. The lost-wax castings i've seen from 5522 models were better quality than those Comet white metal ones with less cleaning up. A Cleminson truck is another well known way of doing 6 wheelers http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/cleminson_underframe.htm and this picture shows how it guides the vehicle on curves and self-centres, avoiding the Dapol problem http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/images/CleminsonUnderside2.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dilbert Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Dildert - typo error. The issue was raised with Hornby MAG. Hornby Railways def not involved, Sorry to confuse No need for apologies - your post led me to make the comment and it's not the first time that I've seen this - it appears that the subtle difference between Hornby and Hornby Magazine is not that obvious and can lead to misunderstanding... dilbert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 4, 2011 Author Share Posted February 4, 2011 Hornby is a well known brand name amongst people not interested in model railways, so all the little Tommy's that have had trainsets over the past few years have most likely turned to Hornby Magazine. The mix up was probably anticipated... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Holt Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 With the chassis up and running, I removed those silly brake shoes. Previously I had spaced out some wheels to those brakes... .... To be continued.... Larry, Just looked at this thread for the first time after a few days away. Excellent work and super result, as usual. Looking at the brake block alignment issue, you could have saved yourself all the bother of altering them by simply switching to P4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cheers, Dave. PS. It would also have the secondary benefit that all your wonderful stock would be able to visit Delph (Holt)!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 4, 2011 Author Share Posted February 4, 2011 Thanks Dave. Regarding the Stove, even P4 came nowhere near those brake shoes. It would also have the secondary benefit that all your wonderful stock would be able to visit Delph (Holt)!!!! Nah, you'll be going back to 00 before long especially if you have a penchant for more Bullied thingamies... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMSmike Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Both my LMS versions of the Stove R are useless for running on my track (which is far from perfect, I know). I don't have problems with other stock e.g. the Hornby 6 wheel milk van. Some of the problem seems to be down to the fixed height of the centre axle which takes weight off the leading axle. Anyone got any bright ideas as I don't expect Hornby magazine/Dapol to suggest anything except a refund. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 Some of the problem seems to be down to the fixed height of the centre axle which takes weight off the leading axle. Anyone got any bright ideas....... You could remove the top plate that holds the middle axle in place. You will then see a screw. Remove it and the rectangular axle mount will come away. Deepen the slot slightly with a round file or whatever you have to hand. When the components are reassembled, the middle wheels will be allowed to rise somewhat so the the weight rests on the outer axles.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMSmike Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Brilliant! How do you do the picture so fast? I've just tried running one of the models with the centre axle removed and another stack of weight in it and the running is starting to be acceptable. Will gluing up the outer axles so they are fixed help do you think? Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozzer models Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Brilliant! How do you do the picture so fast? I've just tried running one of the models with the centre axle removed and another stack of weight in it and the running is starting to be acceptable. Will gluing up the outer axles so they are fixed help do you think? Mike. I would say Yes as i have built over 10 comet kits of the stove R all with fix outer axles & there will run on Peco 2nd rad track & points Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggie7 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 What this thread shows is what a lot has to be done to this model to make it acceptable, more than most of us are capable of. And even then it's still got height problems . . . nearly £30? JE One of the more basic problems hit me whenever I took the BGZ out of the box. It has been made far too wide - almost a foot too wide! The model measures over 10 feet over the duckets and is similarly wide over the sides and roof. I haven't checked with a drawing but I am sure that these vehicles were 9ft 0in or 9ft 3in over the duckets. I presume that, in order to get the vehicle to run round a dinner plate, Dapol have widened the chassis and W-irons and have made the body wide to match the chassis. The N gauge version done for the NGS is also made too wide but at least it doesn't have those useless pivoting outer axles. I don't know where Dapol got the drawing for the roof vents but they don't look much like any LMS vents I've seen. So all in all; The wheels are too small, the van doesn't ride well, the W-irons, axleboxes and springs are poor, the brake shoes are way out of position, the couplings are too long, the van is too wide, the footboards are wrong, the guard's door hinges are wrong and the vents are squashed looking. At nearly thirty quid, it is hardly state of the art modelling 2011! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted February 16, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 16, 2011 If any one has a spare body to lend for a short while, please drop it off at the Shawplan stand at any of our upcoming exhibitions, (Normanton and Pontefract today f'rinstance), and we'll knock out some flush glazing for it. Thanks. Body now received. On with project. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3737 Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Coachmann, thanks for your posts that showed me how to modify the chassis of my two LMS Stove R's. I have now completed one of both, using your excellent instuctions and it's already a great improvement. It now has 14mm Romford wheels and I glued the outer ponies solid using superglue. I used the plastic brake hangers provided, that I cut off and put on 0.3mm wire hooks to line up with the wheels. For this I had to drill 24 x 0.3mm holes that has cost me a few drills, but it was worth the effort. I also had to file the middle axle slot slightly off like shown. The other one only has received the new 14mm wheels and is waiting for the brake replacement. I'll leave the paint job for later. Leen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted May 28, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 28, 2011 Hot off the press. After working it's way to the top of the round tuit pile , the Extreme Etchings flush glazing is now available for the Hornby/Dapol stove R at a cost of £6. Will be available via the usual channels, or for those of you who can't wait, we are Railex at Stoke Mandeville this weekend. Will be addded to the blog pages asap. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted May 28, 2011 Author Share Posted May 28, 2011 Coachmann, thanks for your posts that showed me how to modify the chassis of my two LMS Stove R's. Thank you, and apologies for not getting back on this thread before today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted February 23, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 23, 2013 I note that Hornby magazine are currently (and for a limited period only) offering the Stove R as a free incentive to entice people to take out a two year subscription to their magazine. On the basis that the models first appeared about two years ago, is it likely that the versions on offer now are from the same initial batch or might they be from a later batch that may have attempted to address some of the problems mentioned in several (various) forum posts that I have been reading? Has anyone any more recent updates on the performance of the model? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 You could remove the top plate that holds the middle axle in place. You will then see a screw. Remove it and the rectangular axle mount will come away. Deepen the slot slightly with a round file or whatever you have to hand. When the components are reassembled, the middle wheels will be allowed to rise somewhat so the the weight rests on the outer axles.... WEB Stove middle axle mods.jpg I've just carried out this modification. It's almost like it's a different vehicle. My layout has several gradient changes and it would part company with the rails at these locations without fail. It got shunted to the darkest recesses of my layout in the end. A few minutes to dismantle and file then reassemble all for a real change for the better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 I have to confess the Stove R was still the source of the odd derailment or two. This was identified as the leading outer wheel 'steering' itself through the obtuse crossings on a diamond. I locked the swivel arrangement with some plasticine and all in now tickety and in fact boo with it now.even when placed early on in a train with a fair tail load behind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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