Shamouti Ben Yafo Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Anyone know offhand if I can get kits of ISO container (road) trailers appropriate for 1969? Not the platform type - Knightwing do those, and not difficult to cut down - but the open frame sort. I shan't talk about my scratchbuilding skills (what? He's got some now? - No, no; that's the problem). I don't mind taking a saw to diecasts, or using H0 items as a basis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Anyone know offhand if I can get kits of ISO container (road) trailers appropriate for 1969? Not the platform type - Knightwing do those, and not difficult to cut down - but the open frame sort. I shan't talk about my scratchbuilding skills (what? He's got some now? - No, no; that's the problem). I don't mind taking a saw to diecasts, or using H0 items as a basis. I've picked up a couple of diecast ones from Model-Structures-in-Minature at shows- they're not on their lists, but in their 'lucky dip' boxes. If you give them a bell, or E-mail them, you might be lucky. http://www.m-s-i-m.co.uk/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Not sure if these Athearn HO ones are what you want http://shop.ebay.com...-All-Categories I think both Arran (Member on here) C-Rail http://www.rmweb.co....cubes-are-here/, and http://www.c-rail-intermodal.co.uk/ and PHP designs do OO scale ones Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 You're into scratchbuilding (or as you say cutting down the Knightwing flatbed, which I suspect may even be harder than scratchbuilding!) i'm afraid. The real things are pretty simple affairs, and I suspect were even simpler back then. Two longditudinal girders and hang everything else off it? Unfortunately any HO scale models will automatically be about 1/8th out in every dimension, and that doesn't gel well with containers being very standardised - even in the 60s. So you'd then be into using HO containers, which then need HO scale rail vehicles.....and so on... There are modern examples ones made by PH designs (brass kit) and Corgi has another modern one catalogued for later this year. Arran (C-Rail) doesn't do an HO scale chassis at the moment unless he's snuck it out without me noticing! *IF* the upcoming Corgi one (which is a splittable 20+20 prototype) is able to be split like the real thing and *IF* they haven't done something stupid like making a horlicks of the scale of it, then it *Might* be a basis to chop down to a 20' skelly which could be backdated? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted February 14, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 14, 2011 It is not Corgi but Oxford who has the container trailer in the pipeline. However this is a modern container trailer not what is required. IIRC one of the Corgi Trackside trailers is easily adapted to a skeletal container trailer by removing the body and making a few other mods. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Ah - my apologies - I knew Arran did the containers, I thought he did chassis too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 It is not Corgi but Oxford who has the container trailer in the pipeline. Apologies, I thought they were kinda the same thing? However this is a modern container trailer not what is required. I seem to remember saying that...i'd still suggest that *IF* all those conditions I mentioned happen then it might be a good basis for backdating to an older 20' though. And i'd suspect a 20' would be much more useful for the 1960s than a 40. Were 40' trailers legal in the UK in the 60s? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Were 40' trailers legal in the UK in the 60s? Piqued my interest so I searched - legal from 1968+ - ISO containers were the driving factor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted February 14, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 14, 2011 Piqued my interest so I searched - legal from 1968+ - ISO containers were the driving factor. It was that legislation that effectively killed off the traditional British 8-wheeler lorry. Many lorry operators converted their 8-wheelers into 'chinese six' tractor units. You can do this yourself to models such as the EFE Ergo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamouti Ben Yafo Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 As it happens 20' trailers were available in 1968 which could be linked into a 40' unit - so this might be a good option; I'll have a look when it comes out. The H0 kits - I might try these as well; perhaps I can remove and/or reposition the essential gubbins. Shortening the knightwing trailers, BTW, is a doddle. Thanks, all! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 It was that legislation that effectively killed off the traditional British 8-wheeler lorry. Many lorry operators converted their 8-wheelers into 'chinese six' tractor units. You can do this yourself to models such as the EFE Ergo. Wasn't it the case that, although the 40' trailer was permitted, initially the only tractor unit that could haul one and not exceed the gross train length was a particular Scamell (the Handyman?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted February 14, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 14, 2011 Wasn't it the case that, although the 40' trailer was permitted, initially the only tractor unit that could haul one and not exceed the gross train length was a particular Scamell (the Handyman?) AEC built a twin steer tractive unit to haul the 40-foot trailers. The critical factor was the axle weight which was raised soon afterwards which meant that four wheel tractors were able to be used until the gross weight limits were raised yet again. The Scammel Handyman had a shorter wheelbase than most others but this was more for weight distribution than length. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamouti Ben Yafo Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 Ongoing thanks to everyone! This is one of those subjects with which we can only go forwards if we put it behind us - as long as we remember to couple up... Anyway, extending the theme slightly, like some trailers I've seen, I feel pretty confident that 40' trailers, like containers, would be rare back in '69 - I would think that 32' (or thereabouts) examples would be seen in significant but not great number, to cater for the 30' ISO container. Is it just me, or was/is this size never that popular? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Skeleton Trailer Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamouti Ben Yafo Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 Oh my! Now that's the sort of scene I'm after, but about forty years before. Where did that traler come from? Not to mention the 20' ISO boxes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Ongoing thanks to everyone! This is one of those subjects with which we can only go forwards if we put it behind us - as long as we remember to couple up... Anyway, extending the theme slightly, like some trailers I've seen, I feel pretty confident that 40' trailers, like containers, would be rare back in '69 - I would think that 32' (or thereabouts) examples would be seen in significant but not great number, to cater for the 30' ISO container. Is it just me, or was/is this size never that popular? The issue with the 30' ISO container was that it didn't stack sensibly with the other ISO sizes (20' and 40'), so it made little sense to support it for maritime shipping. Since North America allowed 40' trailers quite early (before the ISO standards), the road shippers liked the 40' containers too. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamouti Ben Yafo Posted February 16, 2011 Author Share Posted February 16, 2011 Ah! Of course! It seems obvious when pointed out. Thank you - good show, sir! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Oh my! Now that's the sort of scene I'm after, but about forty years before. Where did that traler come from? Not to mention the 20' ISO boxes. That would be the PH Designs model Pete Harvey linked to, and as also referred to earlier in the thread. Looking at the boxes my guess is the COSCO 20' is Bachmann and the tanktainer is by C-Rail Intermodal - the 40' is probably a C-Rail kit with their decals. None of them useful for the 60s though i'd strongly suspect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamouti Ben Yafo Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 Ah! Time to take a closer look at PH/PHP (?) Designs. The boxes from the 60s - I could use a proportion of quite modern ones (there were some about - I could even use the rationale that they've mostly been shipped in from sources which are using the type, but that dsounds a tad ropey even as I type...) mixed with some Knightwing examples. Which - annoyingly - have no twistlock fittings. I wonder if I'll try and get some overlays etched? Thanks yet again. Just found PHD - Design; lots of nice stuff there, and I've emailed them about backdating the trailer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I doubt you will find anyone that was using "modern" fully corrugated boxes before the 80s. Early steel boxes had square ribbed sides rather than todays angled corrugations, and many (though not all!) tended to have logo panels as well with various different attempts at getting a solid box around the smooth panel - they would have been way more individual than boxes are nowadays. The door end as well could be vertically ribbed, or just smooth sheet metal - not todays standard (but varied) versions. This kind of thing: http://www.matts-place.com/intermodal/part1/images/ag/mlx970069.jpg http://www.matts-place.com/intermodal/part1/images/ag/itau2004008.jpg Aluminium ones were pretty common though and I guess the Knightwing ones might be a basis for having a go at these? (1970 dated image) http://www.matts-place.com/intermodal/part1/images/rdg/ctiu20.jpg Pics linked to are from Matt Hannes' mostly rather good site: http://www.matts-place.com/intermodal/part1/sea_containers1.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamouti Ben Yafo Posted February 18, 2011 Author Share Posted February 18, 2011 Most of them, indeed. But there are some surprisingly modern boxes in my Jane's Containers 1969. York were notably good - even tehering one at sea for a week, at the end of which the inside was bone dry. But tank containers are a pain - they really were different! Thanks for the reminder of that site - one or two new piccies, and a new link found. Thanks! Seems I ought to keep those shiney new ones advertised by York low in number, though... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Huw Griffiths Posted February 18, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 18, 2011 Seems I ought to keep those shiney new ones advertised by York low in number, though... ... and anyone interested in more modern containers would only be able to justify one of these: http://news.bbc.co.u..._d_hathaway.pdf Seriously though, I checked out this particular file some time back. If I recall correctly, I think it opened in Illustrator (and probably loads of other drawing packages) - and it would have been easy to change the colour scheme, or add / remove logos, lettering etc. Changing the length would also have been easy (the "ribs" are just rectangular paths, which can be copied or removed with a few mouse clicks ...). I think there might also have been an article a while back in ModelRail, which showed how to scratchbuild containers - something along the lines of sticking "ribs" of strip styrene to rectangles of plastikard, to form sides / ends / roof - then "plastic welding" the assemblies together to form a box. (Saying that, it's possible the article might have been about something a bit more specialised than a standard shipping container - it's a few years since I saw it and I've had a lot on my mind since then, so my memory might be playing tricks. If this is the case, I hope Chris Leigh and his colleagues will accept my apologies.) When suitably scaled, the above PDF even shows where to put the "ribs" - if I were into containers, even I would be capable of scratchbuilding these things! (As for earlier container designs, I wouldn't know where to find any usable drawings etc for building them. I'd expect most of the basic dimensions to be similar to their more modern replacements - but I suspect it might not be too long before someone comes along who can prove I've got it wrong.) At this point, I think I'd better get out of the way ... All the best, Huw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted February 18, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 18, 2011 What about the old Hornby containers? These represent the containers of the period under discussion, in fact they were introduced way back about 1970. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormbringer Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I think there might also have been an article a while back in ModelRail, which showed how to scratchbuild containers - something along the lines of sticking "ribs" of strip styrene to rectangles of plastikard, to form sides / ends / roof - then "plastic welding" the assemblies together to form a box. (Saying that, it's possible the article might have been about something a bit more specialised than a standard shipping container - it's a few years since I saw it and I've had a lot on my mind since then, so my memory might be playing tricks. If this is the case, I hope Chris Leigh and his colleagues will accept my apologies.) I may be wrong but I have the feeling that the article referred to was on building the waste containers used on the binliner trains. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Leaving aside that both the 20 and 30' are 40+ year old toys and all the implications of that in terms of wanting a scale model, the 20' might represent Freightliners Ltd containers in that period, but i've never seen an image of anyone elses boxes using that distinctive horizontally beaded side. They weren't shy later on about using the tooling with a multitude of pretty liveries though, real or not... Freightliner's genesis over here wasn't so much about international trade but more replacing wagonload traffic on domestic flows and on some flows company block trains, ISTR that's the background of the 30' box as that size was never a common deep sea size? (As for earlier container designs, I wouldn't know where to find any usable drawings etc for building them. I'd expect most of the basic dimensions to be similar to their more modern replacements - but I suspect it might not be too long before someone comes along who can prove I've got it wrong.) The good thing about containers is that (sweeping generalisation time) they tend to be predictable in size, so your 40' and 20' long and 8' wide for deep sea traffic is the same now as back then. Height will vary though, 8' high was a common height originally but is very rare now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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