New Layout Design Thoughts

[kf4yyd]

Hello All,

 

I am gathering my materials to start a layout (my first), and was wondering if I could bounce a few ideas off the group. I want the layout to use UK prototypes instead of what I see everyday (US), though I must admit I have a large learning curve in front of me.

 

My thoughts are to use an established track plan that many people built so that I know I have a good foundation, and then of course to apply my own scenic treatment. So my first question is:

 

Could Marty McGuirk's Carolina Central track plan be used as a plausible UK layout? For those not familiar with it it was in the book N Scale Model Railroading: Getting Started in the Hobby portions of which can be viewed here (including Track Plan)

 

Carolina Central

 

And that leads me to another question:

 

Here in the US an almost required element in any track plan is an interchange track. How do they link different routes together in the UK? I would imagine the same way but since the system is nationalized I don't really know, sorry my ignorance coming through here.

 

I would like to set the layout somewhat modern so maybe anywhere from the 1990's to present and appreciate any thoughts you may have.

 

Thanks,

Tom

Fredericksburg, VA

[Karhedron]

Could Marty McGuirk's Carolina Central track plan be used as a plausible UK layout? For those not familiar with it it was in the book N Scale Model Railroading: Getting Started in the Hobby portions of which can be viewed here (including Track Plan)

 

Carolina Central

That looks reasonable as a small layout although I might suggest a few changes.

 

In Britain, passing loops on single lines usually occured at stations. The Oxford - Fairford branch line is as good an example as any of a long single-track cross country line and most facilities were clustered around the stations. There may have been examples of passing loops built purely to serve lineside industries but none spring to mind.

 

Here in the US an almost required element in any track plan is an interchange track. How do they link different routes together in the UK? I would imagine the same way but since the system is nationalized I don't really know, sorry my ignorance coming through here.

There isn't really an equivelent to an interchange track in the UK. Most of the rail network was built in the 19th century by private companies. When lines met, they frequently found it convenient to establish junctions to allow through traffic but these tended to be where physically co-located.

 

You could drop the interchange track with no loss of realism. In fact if it was a UK layout the first question people would probably ask where that long siding went.

 

This brings me to my earlier point about stations. If you drop the interchange track, you could put a station building and and platform alongside the passing loop in the lower right-hand part of the layout.

 

I would like to set the layout somewhat modern so maybe anywhere from the 1990's to present and appreciate any thoughts you may have.

I have to say that layout looks more steam-age than modern image. Most freight is bulk now and you don't tend to get small-rail served industries any more. The modern rail network is pared back to its basics and interesting features like passing loops and small goods sheds are long gone.

[edcayton]

 

 

In Britain, passing loops on single lines usually occured at stations. The Oxford - Fairford branch line is as good an example as any of a long single-track cross country line and most facilities were clustered around the stations. There may have been examples of passing loops built purely to serve lineside industries but none spring to mind.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have to say that layout looks more steam-age than modern image. Most freight is bulk now and you don't tend to get small-rail served industries any more. The modern rail network is pared back to its basics and interesting features like passing loops and small goods sheds are long gone.

 

I don't have access to the OP's plan, but what immediately comes to my mind when reading this is Goonbarrow Junction on the Newquay branch, It has never had a station, is a passing loop on a single track line (used to be the end of a double track section), serves an industrial site and has what I think could be called an interchange track. There used to be a private industrial shunter, but I think that has gone now.

 

Ed

[kf4yyd]

That looks reasonable as a small layout although I might suggest a few changes.

 

In Britain, passing loops on single lines usually occured at stations. The Oxford - Fairford branch line is as good an example as any of a long single-track cross country line and most facilities were clustered around the stations. There may have been examples of passing loops built purely to serve lineside industries but none spring to mind.

 

 

There isn't really an equivelent to an interchange track in the UK. Most of the rail network was built in the 19th century by private companies. When lines met, they frequently found it convenient to establish junctions to allow through traffic but these tended to be where physically co-located.

 

You could drop the interchange track with no loss of realism. In fact if it was a UK layout the first question people would probably ask where that long siding went.

 

This brings me to my earlier point about stations. If you drop the interchange track, you could put a station building and and platform alongside the passing loop in the lower right-hand part of the layout.

 

 

I have to say that layout looks more steam-age than modern image. Most freight is bulk now and you don't tend to get small-rail served industries any more. The modern rail network is pared back to its basics and interesting features like passing loops and small goods sheds are long gone.

 

Well, thanks for the information! I guess that means I should go back to the drawing board.... Does anyone have a suggestion for a publication I can look for that would have a track plan suitable for what I am looking for? Ideally I would want it to fit on a 28" x 80" hollow core door, though that is not a set in stone dimension.

 

Thanks,

Tom

[Karhedron]

Well, thanks for the information! I guess that means I should go back to the drawing board.... Does anyone have a suggestion for a publication I can look for that would have a track plan suitable for what I am looking for? Ideally I would want it to fit on a 28" x 80" hollow core door, though that is not a set in stone dimension.

I guess it depends on what you want to run. If you want modern image then take a look at the excellent "Welham Green" by the late Andy Calvert. I believe it fits on a board approximately 6'x2' and has a twin-track mainline oval with a modest MPD. Something like this would certainly fit on a door and would be great for watching mainline trains go by whilst trundling locos about the depot. The MPD could easily be replaced with an industrial site if you want a source of freight.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=46634

[edcayton]

Looks like it was my turn for the invisible ink!

 

Ed

[kf4yyd]

Looks like it was my turn for the invisible ink!

 

Ed

 

Not at all Ed I have been researching your post inbetween work and family things. I still don't have much information for me to make an intelligent reply. So far all I have found out is that Goonbarrow junction is located in Cornwall.

 

Tom

[edcayton]

OK, sorry. AFAIK it's still used to cross the branch dmu and clay trains, although I've not had a ride on it for a few years now-since Mum died in fact. I also have an idea that they don't try to run the dmu when through trains are on the line.

 

Ed

[The Stationmaster]

Looks like we've got there with the most recent posts The CC is in fact remarkably British looking and even the points off the loop are the right way round for British left hand running. Already well established above that a crossing loop (the English for 'passing siding') is ok without a station and not stretching things so far that the sidings could be in use to serve small industries or even left there for engineers ('maintenance of way') use. So all in all not too bad a starting point to get into our way of things although it is very limited operationally.

BTW 'interchange tracks' did exist in Britain in the days of many different companies (the Pre-Group period prior to 1923) although because of changes in the way freight was worked most were probably well out of use for their original purpose by World War II. But they weren't necessarily ripped up - just used for something else and some definitely survived until the 1970s. But track rationalisation in the 1970s onwards means that few, if any, would still have been around by the 1990s - but you've already been given other ideas for that siding so no need to take it out of the plan.

[kf4yyd]

I don't have access to the OP's plan, but what immediately comes to my mind when reading this is Goonbarrow Junction on the Newquay branch, It has never had a station, is a passing loop on a single track line (used to be the end of a double track section), serves an industrial site and has what I think could be called an interchange track. There used to be a private industrial shunter, but I think that has gone now.

 

Ed

 

Not having a lot of luck with Goonbarrow Jct but I did find this rather interesting photo of Lostwithiel, which I take it is located to the North of Goonbarrow. What I really need is a good primer on UK prototypes.

 

 

Tom

[kf4yyd]

Back On Topic....

 

yeah I think the Carolina Central could definately be tweaked into a English layout

 

Just call the interchange track an Exchange Siding - preferably with a loop on it though, and some staging tracks - and it could serve any manner of larger industry that is somewhere off-stage....

 

That gives you the chance to run various block trains without the need to actually model some specific industry

 

Tweaking things is my downfall...

[kf4yyd]

Looks like we've got there with the most recent posts The CC is in fact remarkably British looking and even the points off the loop are the right way round for British left hand running. Already well established above that a crossing loop (the English for 'passing siding') is ok without a station and not stretching things so far that the sidings could be in use to serve small industries or even left there for engineers ('maintenance of way') use. So all in all not too bad a starting point to get into our way of things although it is very limited operationally.

 

Hi Mike,

 

Basically though I guess it would need some heavy modification, might be better off finding a layout that is based on UK practice from the beginning.

 

 

 

BTW 'interchange tracks' did exist in Britain in the days of many different companies (the Pre-Group period prior to 1923) although because of changes in the way freight was worked most were probably well out of use for their original purpose by World War II. But they weren't necessarily ripped up - just used for something else and some definitely survived until the 1970s. But track rationalisation in the 1970s onwards means that few, if any, would still have been around by the 1990s - but you've already been given other ideas for that siding so no need to take it out of the plan.

 

Interesting thank you very much for the information.

 

Tom

[Redkiterail]

Hi Kf4ydd:

there is nothing stopping you adjusting carliolina centre and converting into a uk layout there is a small wagon load system called enterprise if that is still about about and if you model the 80s up to 93 roughly you have the speed link system which was a wagon load network done by BR. Which allows smaller freight trains. You did mention the 90s to current scene, you could model a persevered steam railway as the main feature and swap the interchange track for a national rail connection with a shuttle diesel multiple unit train going from fiddle yard to station and back. Plus you can have the special/railtours running straight through.

 

In terms of books

Santona publications now under the book law label make some very good books, I am not sure that you can get them in the states.

http://booklaw.co.uk...0f07693c7f736b3.

 

If you want to run a lot of different wagons, you could model a wagon repair yard or even a full blown railway works like Eastligh, Springburn etc. Or model a line like the north London or west London which are compact but have a lot of different freight trains, there are section which are diesel only.

 

Hope that helps.

 

P.S just ask any questions on here there is no such thing as a stupid question

[edcayton]

Well, I had a look at the OP's Carolina Central plan, and to me it ain't far off a simplified Goonbarrow. There is the passing loop, the two sidings to the left would serve the main works complex, that to the right is the stub of the Goonbarrow branch which could be use by the ECC shunter as a headshunt, and the siding to the front could be used for cripples/engineers etc. Works for me!

 

Ed

[The Stationmaster]

 

Basically though I guess it would need some heavy modification, might be better off finding a layout that is based on UK practice from the beginning.

 

Tom

 

The main thing which needs modifying are the bridges and buildings - the track layout wouldn't need any changes although I'd be inclined to alter the role of that interchange track as others have suggested.

[edcayton]

If you type "goonbarrow junction signal box diagram" into google then look down the lists until you find Newquay branch and click goonbarrow (i do wish I could do links) then you arrive at a very useful diagram. If you spin it through 180 degrees then I think you can see the resemblance.

 

You can also find a number of photo's by googling goonbarrow. If you do want to model UK then this gives you freight, local and long-distance passenger and steam and diesel specials.

 

Ed

[The Stationmaster]

Is this the one you mean Ed?

 

http://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwf/S1120.htm

[edcayton]

Yes, thamks Mike.

 

Ed

[kf4yyd]

Hi Kf4ydd:

there is nothing stopping you adjusting carliolina centre and converting into a uk layout there is a small wagon load system called enterprise if that is still about about and if you model the 80s up to 93 roughly you have the speed link system which was a wagon load network done by BR. Which allows smaller freight trains. You did mention the 90s to current scene, you could model a persevered steam railway as the main feature and swap the interchange track for a national rail connection with a shuttle diesel multiple unit train going from fiddle yard to station and back. Plus you can have the special/railtours running straight through.

 

In terms of books

Santona publications now under the book law label make some very good books, I am not sure that you can get them in the states.

http://booklaw.co.uk...0f07693c7f736b3.

 

If you want to run a lot of different wagons, you could model a wagon repair yard or even a full blown railway works like Eastligh, Springburn etc. Or model a line like the north London or west London which are compact but have a lot of different freight trains, there are section which are diesel only.

 

Hope that helps.

 

P.S just ask any questions on here there is no such thing as a stupid question

 

Yes it helps, Thanks for the link to Booklaw too! I have asked and they even ship overseas so no I need to get permission from the misses.

 

 

 

[kf4yyd]

If you type "goonbarrow junction signal box diagram" into google then look down the lists until you find Newquay branch and click goonbarrow (i do wish I could do links) then you arrive at a very useful diagram. If you spin it through 180 degrees then I think you can see the resemblance.

 

You can also find a number of photo's by googling goonbarrow. If you do want to model UK then this gives you freight, local and long-distance passenger and steam and diesel specials.

 

Ed

Thanks Ed the link is very helpful!

 

Is this the one you mean Ed?

 

http://www.s-r-s.org...l/gwf/S1120.htm

 

Thanks to you to Mike