Hornby March 2011 Releases

[Marty Mc]

Hi

 

I can understand the frustration when you are just hanging to get that new model I am waiting too. Yes Hornby have being late with a number of models for reasons unknown to us at this stage. Many many factors will effect delivery, from damaged tooling to containers being lost etc, some of these factors are totally out of Hornby's Bachmann Dapols control. Im sure Hornby would love to deliver just about everything on time but its just a delivery schedule, a guide.

 

It will be very interesting to hear what has been going on. I can not recall seeing any comments from Hornby and/or Simon Kohler on here(?)

 

Can you blame Hornby or Simon for not being on here? After reading some of the comments on here and comments directed at "Dapol Dave", a manufacturer represented on here, well would you like to be on the receiving end of some of these comments which I consider totally out of line. Yes, I have also put my foot in mouth on here a number of times on other issues.

 

Give them time, have a little patience in reality here we are talking about toy trains, the world will not end because you dont get train x y or z on time. It may cause a problem for that show or whatever you had planned, I do understand being there, but jumping up and down on here will not get it any quicker.

Look on the bright side money still in the bank, maybe you can focus your energy on something else, eg finishing of that rake you have being meaning to do for years or adding that extra station light.

 

I will admit over the course of the last 3-4 months it has become one of my pet dislikes non constructive complaining about the manufacturers whatever the subject may be.

 

Give them a break, please Hornby, Bachmann, Dapol, Farish etc they are trying hard and look at the range we currently have. 10 years ago would you have even expected 1/4 of it and at the quality? Their has never being a better time for the RTR modeler.

 

They want to deliver on time its money in the bank for them and that is the net sum of it.

 

Well done manufacturers good to see your still bringing out new products even in this downturn.

 

Martin

[The Stationmaster]

 

I can understand the frustration when you are just hanging to get that new model I am waiting too. Yes Hornby have being late with a number of models for reasons unknown to us at this stage. Many many factors will effect delivery, from damaged tooling to containers being lost etc, some of these factors are totally out of Hornby's Bachmann Dapols control. Im sure Hornby would love to deliver just about everything on time but its just a delivery schedule, a guide.

 

Martin

 

Surely a 'delivery schedule' is exactly what it says on the tin - a schedule (i.e. plan) of what will be delivered when? In other words it is part of the company's business plan and part of their budget - from which is planned their cash flow and sundry other business niceties. If you make a plan it is then a management task to deliver it and to correct any shortcomings in delivery because they are likely to affect the bottom line and are definitely going to interfere with budget out-turn - and if a company gets that wrong the result could well be more serious than a few unhappy customers. And it is no excuse (and definitely not a 'reason') to say it is out of your control - a decently managed business will ensure that it has controls and contingency plans in place, that is part of the managerial role in any properly run business.

Hornby delivery schedules seem to have suffered repeated shortcomings over the fairly recent past although in some instances they have been met. That too suggests to me something more than 'accidents' and something that they should be sorting. Overall no skin off my nose and no worries; what I have been expecting and have arranged my budget to purchase has largely arrived as planned. And the personal budget issue can - increasingly - be an important issue as our belts are tightened and with even the large manufacturers producing relatively short runs which disappear of the shelves unless we buy almost as soon as they arrive.

As far as manufacturers' presence on RMWeb is concerned it is a sort of double-edged sword for them, and in some respects for us. I would hope that from a marketing viewpoint they have a look in here and that they then filter the wheat from the chaff when considering how our comments impact their business. Speaking to us more directly is a difficult one because inevitably the 'why don't you make a XXX?' is going to arise and umpteen criticisms could well pour forth - Dapol Dave is a very brave fellah to put his head above the parapet but then he also uses this forum for research and a spot of marketing so he no doubt feels the benefits outweigh the downside. Difficult area for them and if the 'big two plus Heljan' were to have a more obvious presence here I reckon Andy would be looking for a couple of extra Mods to make sure those folk have enough time to read it all

[brushman47544]

March of course is far from over so possibly we shall see a large container load arriving in a couple of weeks from now?

..and although the new releases show only the rerun of the Hawksworth passenger brake, the maroon and blood and custard composites are already on sale so maybe other items will arrive this month.

 

But this is where I do not understand Hornby's inability to accurately say what will be released during the "current" month. With shipping times from China, anything to be released in the "current" month must already be on its way. Pat Hammond's MREMag website regularly announces what Bachmann and Graham Farish have in containers on their way from China so clearly they know exactly what to expect when they open the container when it arrives. It seems incredible if Hornby doesn't, or perhaps they have a different policy on announcing new releases?

[stewartingram]

Far from wanting to start rumours or spread gossip, I do wonder if thereis something more amiss with Hornby at the moment. Always seeming to be in the big league as far as professioalism is concerned, of late they have slipped dramatically with their performance. No respectable company outsources without controls in place, from QC procedures to contractual demands. In he real world, there will be hiccups, but if say the Castle is delayed, the next order placed, for say Hawksworths will be more tightly controlled, its a natural progression along the learning curve. As others have said, a delivery schedule is just that. And why the secrecy of the "new factory"? You pays your money, the subcontrctor delivers as per contract. Shades of Corgi here before Hornby takeover. As a regular "viewer" in the Holborn Modelzone, I too have noticed the shelves becoming dry of Hornby.....and also Corgi, Airfix, Humbrol....though a recent Airfix delivery of new releases has filled them a lot. And with the announcement of accountant-led price increases (or so it seems) I do wonder if the bean counters are literally holding the purse strings at the moment. I do hope that Hornby can get back up to speed, as a major player we need them even if on a personal level each of us may only have occasional purchases of the brand. They are an influence on the whole hobby. Good luck for the future Hornby.

[frobisher]

Surely a 'delivery schedule' is exactly what it says on the tin - a schedule (i.e. plan) of what will be delivered when? In other words it is part of the company's business plan and part of their budget - from which is planned their cash flow and sundry other business niceties. If you make a plan it is then a management task to deliver it and to correct any shortcomings in delivery because they are likely to affect the bottom line and are definitely going to interfere with budget out-turn - and if a company gets that wrong the result could well be more serious than a few unhappy customers. And it is no excuse (and definitely not a 'reason') to say it is out of your control - a decently managed business will ensure that it has controls and contingency plans in place, that is part of the managerial role in any properly run business.

 

You're confusng Hornby with a company that actually has to deliver new products on time (this also applys to Bachmann, Dapol and all the others). As it stands, Hornby is delivering into a cost concious market and the measures you mention above aren't compatible with the measures Hornby have taken to keep their costs down (shared production facilities with batch production rather than "as required").

[The Stationmaster]

You're confusng Hornby with a company that actually has to deliver new products on time (this also applys to Bachmann, Dapol and all the others). As it stands, Hornby is delivering into a cost concious market and the measures you mention above aren't compatible with the measures Hornby have taken to keep their costs down (shared production facilities with batch production rather than "as required").

 

I think you missed my point, I'm sorry if I didn't make it sufficiently clear. A 'delivery schedule' is part of the whole business plan of the company - of any company whether they're flogging beans or trainsets - because a lot of the company's financial planning has perforce to be built around it, especially the potentially critical issue of cashflow. If that plan doesn't work then other things in the company's business plan can be put at risk - end of story. If you are in business to make things, or tin beans, you have to plan your production process, your transport & distribution, and so on because those things are what makes a production and selling business work.

And batch production - properly planned - is of course 100% compatible with pre-booking transport (or warehousing) and quoting delivery dates based on that plan. If you try to run a business, especially a production and selling business on ad-hocery you are making trouble for yourself. Quite why Hornby is missing its plans at present can be down to all sorts of things running through the whole gamut from management inaction to aggressive management action - it's pointless and a waste of time to speculate. But what it is not doing is working to its laid down - or certainly publicly stated in product availability terms - business plan.

[jonathan452]

And why the secrecy of the "new factory"?

Maybe it is in the uk (!!!!!!!!!!!)

 

As a regular "viewer" in the Holborn Modelzone, I too have noticed the shelves becoming dry of Hornby.....and also Corgi, Airfix, Humbrol....though a recent Airfix delivery of new releases has filled them a lot.

Nice to know that other people have noticed this.

[frobisher]

I think you missed my point, I'm sorry if I didn't make it sufficiently clear. A 'delivery schedule' is part of the whole business plan of the company - of any company whether they're flogging beans or trainsets - because a lot of the company's financial planning has perforce to be built around it, especially the potentially critical issue of cashflow. If that plan doesn't work then other things in the company's business plan can be put at risk - end of story. If you are in business to make things, or tin beans, you have to plan your production process, your transport & distribution, and so on because those things are what makes a production and selling business work.

And batch production - properly planned - is of course 100% compatible with pre-booking transport (or warehousing) and quoting delivery dates based on that plan. If you try to run a business, especially a production and selling business on ad-hocery you are making trouble for yourself. Quite why Hornby is missing its plans at present can be down to all sorts of things running through the whole gamut from management inaction to aggressive management action - it's pointless and a waste of time to speculate. But what it is not doing is working to its laid down - or certainly publicly stated in product availability terms - business plan.

 

That's all well and fine, but certain industries can't actually work like that in practice because of factors outwith their direct control. The reason that they are outwith your direct control are often dictated by the business plan. It's a fact of business life, it's not great but you have to put up with it sometimes.

 

Hornby have an element of their manufacturing chain that is outwith their direct control, and the only way to provision against that is to increase costs (bring manufacturing in house again, or provision an alternate manufacturer with duplicate tooling in contingency and reserve production slots on theoff chance or similiar).

[Ozexpatriate]

And why the secrecy of the "new factory"?

No offence, but I don't feel this comment is particualrly fair. They are not required to tell us who their contract manufacturers are or where in the world they are located. Simply, we don't "need to know".

 

Nor was Simon K particularly secretive about it. He volunteered the information at a trade show that the 28xx was their first product made with the second source. My guess is that there are others in the pipeline by now.

[Ozexpatriate]

You're confusng Hornby with a company that actually has to deliver new products on time (this also applys to Bachmann, Dapol and all the others).

Err... yes they do. If they don't ship product, they don't make any money. From a business standpoint, they need a consistent income stream.

 

Also remember that 'we' are not Hornby's direct customers (financially speaking). Hornby sells to their network of distributors - Hattons, Rails, the High Street hobby shop etc. Hornby makes money after they ship from their warehouse to the retailer.

 

Companies that are traded on the stock exchange forecast their revenues to their shareholders. If they are late with products they will likely miss their revenue targets and have to communicate this failure to their shareholders. Often this results in a share price drop. The executive management of any publicly traded company cares a great deal about shipping products on time.

 

I am confident this is more important in their board meetings than inconveniencing end customers.

[Guest Redskalie]

Seems some people just want something to whine about.

What difference does it make to you, whether they deliver this month or next or the one after that? Does your life depend on the product? In fact I imagine that many people moaning will never even buy most of the products they moan about.

 

 

This thread has some very naive and puerile observations about what a "good" company does.

Get real, there are no good companies, only ones that are less incompetent than their competitors. They contain people , the same as you and I, who are flawed in all the ways humans are.

 

All outsources are painful, I have consulted on and tried to correct more outsourcing conflicts than I care to remember over the years , and none, not one ever goes smoothly or operates in the way the parties would like. It is impossible for them to do so. The Customer always wants everything for nothing yesterday, while the supplier will want to deliver nothing for everything the day after tomorrow, which never arrives.

If you think you can fix it here or anywhere else you are quite simply wrong, don't waste your time. If you just want somewhere to moan and something to moan about , well then continue filling your boots, because that is all your achieving.

 

Hornby , Bachmann, Dapol and many more i can mention are great companies with great people, who try hard to deliver to peoples expectations, even when those expectations are ill informed. If someone fails to deliver on something you have earned through purchase or labour you have the right to complain, everything else is a moan. Those that can, do. Those that cannot, teach. While those that do not have a clue, just moan!

[The Stationmaster]

Companies that are traded on the stock exchange forecast their revenues to their shareholders. If they are late with products they will likely miss their revenue targets and have to communicate this failure to their shareholders. Often this results in a share price drop. The executive management of any publicly traded company cares a great deal about shipping products on time.

 

I am confident this is more important in their board meetings than inconveniencing end customers.

 

Interestingly their share price took a large drop at the end of January (140p dropping to approx 120p in a few days) and since than has followed a slight generally downward trend to around its current level in the vicinity of 116p-115p. While this no doubt related largely to their overall Christmas period results it might also signal a little unease about their current financial performance although there are - obviously - concerns about a fragile market situation at present. In that respect it seems a little odd that they aren't pumping as much long promised product as they can into the market but they could have other ways of improving financial performance which don't involve the British model railway market?i

[Guest Redskalie]

Well if you check against the Leisure goods index in which Hornby is located, you will notice that their share price for the last 12 months has shadowed the sector index in near juxtaposition. So I would suggest the share price is a reflection on the sector and not upon Hornby directly.

[Ozexpatriate]

Interestingly their share price took a large drop at the end of January (140p dropping to approx 120p in a few days) and since than has followed a slight generally downward trend to around its current level in the vicinity of 116p-115p. While this no doubt related largely to their overall Christmas period results it might also signal a little unease about their current financial performance although there are - obviously - concerns about a fragile market situation at present.

I remember we discussed their January reset in year-end guidance around post 20 of this thread.

 

In that respect it seems a little odd that they aren't pumping as much long promised product as they can into the market but they could have other ways of improving financial performance which don't involve the British model railway market?

I suspect they are unable to but there might be another consideration. Their financial year ends on March 31 (just a few weeks now), when they will close the books on a year which will end on a slightly more disappointing note than they had earlier predicted. Sales in March will not recover their position with the poor holiday season.

 

In late January they reset guidance for the current financial year, including lowering their anticipated dividend since the Interim report from September 30. It is conceivable that new sales in April will be more beneficial to them than sales in March - it's a brand new year.

 

I think we can look for them to be bullish about London 2012 souveneir items (not railway related) for their April 2011 - March 2012 financial year when they publish their annual report (sometime in June I expect based on past behaviour).

[Andy Y]

Seems some people just want something to whine about.

What difference does it make to you, whether they deliver this month or next or the one after that? Does your life depend on the product? In fact I imagine that many people moaning will never even buy most of the products they moan about.

 

 

This thread has some very naive and puerile observations about what a "good" company does.

Get real, there are no good companies, only ones that are less incompetent than their competitors. They contain people , the same as you and I, who are flawed in all the ways humans are.

 

All outsources are painful, I have consulted on and tried to correct more outsourcing conflicts than I care to remember over the years , and none, not one ever goes smoothly or operates in the way the parties would like. It is impossible for them to do so. The Customer always wants everything for nothing yesterday, while the supplier will want to deliver nothing for everything the day after tomorrow, which never arrives.

If you think you can fix it here or anywhere else you are quite simply wrong, don't waste your time. If you just want somewhere to moan and something to moan about , well then continue filling your boots, because that is all your achieving.

 

Hornby , Bachmann, Dapol and many more i can mention are great companies with great people, who try hard to deliver to peoples expectations, even when those expectations are ill informed. If someone fails to deliver on something you have earned through purchase or labour you have the right to complain, everything else is a moan. Those that can, do. Those that cannot, teach. While those that do not have a clue, just moan!

 

 

Whilst there are components of truth in your perspective; the manner in which you communicate it is unlikely to be conducive to a cordial discussion.

 

 

[Leander]

Those that can, do. Those that cannot, teach.

 

I see, that explains why I haven't done anything for the last 38 years

[DS239]

No offence, but I don't feel this comment is particualrly fair. They are not required to tell us who their contract manufacturers are or where in the world they are located. Simply, we don't "need to know".

 

Nor was Simon K particularly secretive about it. He volunteered the information at a trade show that the 28xx was their first product made with the second source. My guess is that there are others in the pipeline by now.

 

Well, I know that they were using SUNRISE as well as SANDA KAN,so was that what he was referring to?

[Guest Belgian]

The Competition bemuses me - prize is a Hornby yearbook - question is who designed the BR Standard Class 5 - yet they've included a picture of Hornby's LMS Black 5

Not only that, it is described as a "fantastic R2895XS BR 4-6-0 class 5". This is of no great moment, except that it indicates a tiny slipping of Hornby's relatively recent hard-won reputation for pin-sharp accuracy. Sadly, even more recently, there have been worrying comments such as those included in this thread, which make one wonder whether all is well in the land of Camelot. (Even though they haven't announced a model of 30742 (yet!) - more worrying would be a 73082 to go head to head with Bachmann's 73082, but based on the aforementioned R2895 model!)

 

JE

[Ozexpatriate]

Well if you check against the Leisure goods index in which Hornby is located, you will notice that their share price for the last 12 months has shadowed the sector index in near juxtaposition. So I would suggest the share price is a reflection on the sector and not upon Hornby directly.

Yes, market forces can be a tide that floats all boats.

 

However, alternative conclusions can be drawn. Were I providing investment advice (which I am not, as I am not qualified to do so) I might observe:

• The Leisure goods sector performed poorly in the last quarter with a sharp drop
  
• Hornby is not distinguishing itself relative to other companies in the sector

 

Neither of those comments is particularly positive from an investment standpoint.

[Guest Redskalie]

Sometimes the truth hurts.

 

I have named no-one, so if anyone feels it is aimed at them that is their own doing. My statements and feelings are general and would apply beyond this thread or Forum.

 

When people profane a Companies name without substance or knowledge of the whole picture, I consider it prejudice and offensive.

 

I am sick to death of the direction this country as a whole has gone, led by appalling tabloid journalism, and people who do not read past the headlines.

 

This thread has become a symptom of this, nothing more, and yet it started of as a simple question of " is their any news" and became a diatribe on how poor some companies are.

 

Why do people feel the need to drag people, companies , footballers, presenters etc down??

 

 

[Ozexpatriate]

This is of no great moment, except that it indicates a tiny slipping of Hornby's relatively recent hard-won reputation for pin-sharp accuracy.

I'm hard pressed to think that accolades for Hornby's accuracy would be awarded for the descriptions of their models, either on-line or in the catalogue. The models themselves may be very good, but they are struggling to get their marketing collateral correct.

 

Admittedly it is a tough problem. We are a pedantic bunch and it is very easy to make mistakes with hundreds of items in a catalogue. There are an awful lot of clangers though. I recall a catalogue a couple of years ago with a 14xx wearing a Collett shirtbutton described as being suitable for the 1950s. There have been a lot of these kind of mistakes in the last few years.

[Guest Redskalie]

Yes, market forces can be a tide that floats all boats.

 

However, alternative conclusions can be drawn. Were I providing investment advice (which I am not, as I am not qualified to do so) I might observe:

• The Leisure goods sector performed poorly in the last quarter with a sharp drop
• Hornby is not distinguishing itself relative to other companies in the sector

 

Neither of those comments is particularly positive from an investment standpoint.

 

And yet 3 market makers are rating them as a medium to strong buy? go figure

[coachmann]

 

Seems some people just want something to whine about.

What difference does it make to you, whether they deliver this month or next or the one after that? Does your life depend on the product?

 

This thread has some very naive and puerile observations about what a "good" company does.

Get real, there are no good companies,

 

If you think you can fix it here or anywhere else you are quite simply wrong, don't waste your time. If you just want somewhere to moan and something to moan about , well then continue filling your boots, because that is all your achieving.

 

Hornby , Bachmann, Dapol and many more i can mention are great companies with great people, who try hard to deliver to peoples expectations, even when those expectations are ill informed. If someone fails to deliver on something you have earned through purchase or labour you have the right to complain, everything else is a moan. Those that can, do. Those that cannot, teach. While those that do not have a clue, just moan!

 

3 short weeks on here and you've got us all sussed. Have fun.

 

 

[Guest LNER Tom]

Something I have just noticed on the listing. B17s on here are listed as Thorpe Hall B17/1 and Grimsby Town B17/2..... all previous material has said and shown (Hornby website) Thorpe Hall to be a B17/2 and Grimsby Town B17/6. Has something changed or is this just a mistake on the list?

[Guest Redskalie]

3 short weeks on here and you've got us all sussed. Have fun.

 

 

 

Sorry, How many weeks do I need to be on before I am allowed an opinion? And who is "all"?