PGN Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 I have an N gauge BH Enterprises kit-built N15 which I want to run an an LSWR locomotive. The BHE kit tender runs on a standard Farish 6-wheel tender (making use of the chassis which comes with the recommended mechanism - the Farish Black 5) and if they ran with 6-wheel tenders in SR days this made sense. But during LSWR days, they ran with outside-frame 8 wheel tenders ... or at least, they did in all of the pictures I have seen. Now, I have a Worsley Works kit for a "watercart" tender which I could build to run with it ... but will this be any more correct than teh 6 wheel tender it currently runs with (which is, at least, outside framed)? In short, does anybody know of N15s having run with watercart tenders in LSWR days? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Belgian Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 I have an N gauge BH Enterprises kit-built N15 which I want to run an an LSWR locomotive. The BHE kit tender runs on a standard Farish 6-wheel tender (making use of the chassis which comes with the recommended mechanism - the Farish Black 5) and if they ran with 6-wheel tenders in SR days this made sense. But during LSWR days, they ran with outside-frame 8 wheel tenders ... or at least, they did in all of the pictures I have seen. Now, I have a Worsley Works kit for a "watercart" tender which I could build to run with it ... but will this be any more correct than teh 6 wheel tender it currently runs with (which is, at least, outside framed)? In short, does anybody know of N15s having run with watercart tenders in LSWR days? None of the Urie locomotives ran with watercart tenders in LSWR days except the class E14 rebuild to class H15 no. 335. Watercarts only appeared on Maunsell N15s built at Eastleigh in 1924 to replace G14/P14 numbers 448 to 457. Similarly, 6-wheel tenders only appeared with the final batch of N15s built at Eastleigh and with some of the "Scotchmen" at various times in their lives. All these took place in Southern railway days. JE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted April 23, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 23, 2011 The only N15s to run in LSWR days were the 20 original Urie engines 736-755 which were built between 1918 and 1923. These all had outside-framed tenders, stovepipe chimneys etc. They were later improved by Maunsell. N15s with watercart tenders only came about in 1925 in SR days when Maunsell completely rebuilt 10 Drummond compounds that were abysmal performers. They reused just the frames and watercart tenders, and were the only locos in the N15 class to run with watercarts. By the 1950s these tenders were in poor condition and were replaced by Urie types from other withdrawn locos. 44 further N15s were then built between 1925 and 1927, and numbers 793-806 had 6-wheel tenders for use on the Central Section. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGN Posted April 23, 2011 Author Share Posted April 23, 2011 Thanks guys. That's pretty much what I feared ... I've got to build an 8-wheel tender. Oh joy unbounded! Out of interest, does the same apply for the S15? The Langley S15 kit has a watercart, because it makes use of a Fleischmann chassis with an 8-wheel inside framed tender drive unit. But is this wrong for LSWR days, too? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted April 23, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 23, 2011 The 20 Urie S15s were all built with new outside-framed tenders. Also they will have had stove-pipe chimneys and no smoke deflectors. However, in 1935-6 the 7 ex-LBSCR Baltic tanks were rebuilt into 4-6-0s as the "Remembrance" (or N15X) class and the tenders from 504-510 were attached to them, the S15s receiving watercarts as replacements from withdrawn C8 locos. All of this information I've gleaned from my copy of Locomotives Illustrated 41 from March 1985 (goodness me, how time flies!). There's a picture of 30504 in BR days here - 30504 with watercart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbishop Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Maunsell completely rebuilt 10 Drummond compounds that were abysmal performers. Hi, trivial correction to RFS; the Drummond 4-6-0s weren't actually compound locomotives, but they were abysmal! Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted April 23, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 23, 2011 Hi, trivial correction to RFS; the Drummond 4-6-0s weren't actually compound locomotives, but they were abysmal! Bill Yes - you're right. I think I was confusing them with the double-singles (classes E10 and T7 4-2-2-0s) which, although also not compounds as such, were equally abysmal performers! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGN Posted April 23, 2011 Author Share Posted April 23, 2011 OK guys. Thanks for all that. New plan of campaign, in light of your comments: 1. The BHE N15 runs on a Farish Black 5 chassis. I have a spare 8-wheel tender chassis (I think it was for an A4 or something) so I can scratch build an outside framed tender on that and use it with the N15. 2. The Langley S15 can be run on EITHER the Fleischmann chassis OR a Farish Black 5. The one I have is fitted to a Fleischmann chassis. Result: a powered watercart. I can take that watercart and use it to power my Worsley Works T9. I have a couple of spare Union Mills 4-coupled wheel sets, and just need to turn out a suitable chassis which will mate with the Worsley superstructure (Did I say "just"??? Hmmm ... this is more advanced modelling than I have done yet. But hey, you've gotta learn new skills some time, right??) 3. I have an unbuilt Langley S15 kit; and maybe I should build that rather than use the one I have ready built (and painted in Southern livery). Aim to mate it to a Farish chassis (OK, so the wheels will be too big; but you can't have everything!) and then all I need to do is build another 8-wheel tender (I'll have had some practice by then, anyway). That will eave me with a spare S15 body in Southern livery to dispose of ... and a Worsley Works watercart kit which I thought I'd be needing, but don't appear to need after all. I'm sure I'll find a use for it sooner or later, though. Expect first progress report and pics ... oh, I don't know. Maybe abotu this time next year ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etched Pixels Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 The BHE N15 kit I have has a non-powered bogie tender so it might be worth asking Ray about that ? PS: I have the Fleischmann chassis sitting here waiting for me to buy a Langley kit to go on it ... (PM me if that helps solve your problem) Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorsetmike Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 The BHE N15 tender kits I have are the Urie 8 wheel type, they fit very nicely on a Minitrix German 4-6-0 tender drive (not cheap) My most recent hack with this model involves a Peco Jubilee loco chassis and a Union Mills tender drive, bits from a a pony truck has been added at the front to give an 8 wheeler. The Jubilee wheels have to be swapped round as they pick up current from the opposirte side to Union Mills. I think the BHE Loco looks dreadful on a Faish Black 5 chassis, wheel diameter is way too small and spacing is way off too, a Duchess chassis is a bit better with it's larger wheels, bur spacing is still off, the only drawback of the Jubilee chassis is less detasiled valve gear. The Bogie side frames I use are etches from Worsley works, I have a spare set of these. Camelot, Jubilee loco chassis, Union Mills tender (added wheels) BHE N15 kit bodies Urie H15 from Langley S15 body on Minitrix chassis (wih Fleischmann valve gear) Minitrix/BHE Tender Maunsell S15, hacked Langley loco body on Fleischmann chassis, tender Minitrix/BHE Union Mills T9 with Fleischamnn/Langley watercart Cab sides and splashers milled to narrow cab dimensions, coupling rod splasher from plastic strip Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorsetmike Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 BHE do the N15 Urie 8 wheel tender as a separate item, I picked one up at the Brockenhurst show a few weeks back £7.45. This will be slightly hacked to go behind Lord Collingwood, to replace the high sided one it has up to now, but which is wrong for early to mid 1930s, not sure if to use a Minitrix tender drive or Union Mills as I used on Camelot. Have a D15 kit in the post from Worsley Works, should be here tomorow (Monday) that will get the UM tender from the T9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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