NeilHB's 2010 Challenge Entry - Burneside Tramway

[NeilHB]

Right, this be my entry into the 2010 challenge. Originally I was going to go down the road of modelling a portion of the Furness Railway, but now I've decided to do something a wee bit different. It's still going to be set in Cumbria, but it will be a rough interpretation of the Burneside Tramway, which was originally opened in 1927 as a standard gauge tramway to serve a paper mill further up the valley near Bowston:

 

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&source=hp&q=Burneside+Cumbria&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Burneside,+Kendal,+Cumbria&gl=uk&ei=G8QaS_7OHpGw4Qa7_uTvAg&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CAkQ8gEwAA

 

As can be seen, the tramway originally diverged from the Windermere branch.

 

There are a few photos of the line taken during the 1950's/1960's:

 

http://cra.photos.gb.net/c1653979.html (having done a bit of investigative work, I think the majority of the photos have been taken on the section of tramway that ran through Bowston village, but I'm not entirely sure)

 

And a bit of history about the Paper Mill here, with a brief bit about the tramway right at the very bottom:

 

http://www.cumbria-industries.org.uk/cropper.htm

 

 

 

This be my plan of the layout. It follows an alternative history for the railway whereby a branch line diverged from the main route of the tramway in Bowston village, and ran roughly due north to a couple more factories and a limestone quarry which provided extra traffic for the tramway (and an excuse for a bit more of an interesting track plan). There is also the addition of a Mill in the centre of Bowston village, being where the building with the green bargeboards on the left of this picture is, to the left of the Simplex loco: http://cra.photos.gb.net/p56415100.html

The 'mainline' carries on to the right of the building with the green door, underneath the corrugated iron walkway (I think that's what this is anyway!) and on towards the paper mill. The 'branch' to the stone quarry will curve around further to the right between the corrugated iron walkway section and the stone building on the extreme right. I hope this is making sense so far!

 

The main board is roughly 51inches in length at its maximum, and 33 inches wide at its maximum. Total area for this board is (if I've worked it out correctly-maths was never my strong point!) 1288.5sq inches.

 

The second board represents a section of the tramway further on in its journey to Cowan Head where the paper mill was located, and is a bit liberal in that I don't think the line actually crossed any water on this section, so therefore I might exclude this on the final version. The area for this board has been a bit tricky to work out, owing to its odd shape, but I think I've worked it out correctly as 635.75sq inches, though if anyone wants to have another go they're more than welcome to! The second plan below is basically the same as the one above but with the addition of one inch squares in an attempt to work out the area (each one inch square represents 12inches):

 

 

 

The total area for the two boards works out as approximately 1924.2sq inches.

 

Each fiddle yard is roughly 18inches by 6 inches - total area of all fiddle yards is 324sq inches. Each fiddle yard should be capable of holding a loco and 3 wagons maximum. Not sure yet but I think they will be of either traverser or sector plate design (whichever is easiest).

 

Track will be code 100 rail, glued to mounting card sleepers where appropriate and on the roadside section the track will be inset. Pointwork will be handmade as well, using a much tighter radius and shorter length than Peco or Marcway. Tight curves and checkrails will be to the fore on this layout, as all the locos intended to be used will be 4 wheeled, mostly of the industrial diesel variety.

 

It is planned to have a variety of traffic running on the layout, with the quarries and extra factories/mills there will be more variety than what would have been seen on the prototype.

 

Incoming Traffic:

 

Pulp - opens and vans

Dyes - opens and vans

Chemicals - opens and vans

Coal - 16T opens and 5/8 plank opens

General Goods - opens and vans

Gunpowder - gunpowder vans

empties to the quarry - opens and hoppers

 

Outgoing Traffic:

 

Paper - vans

General goods - opens and vans

Empties - all

Limestone - opens and hoppers

 

Internal User:

 

Van and open(s) for PW traffic?

 

 

Ultimately there will be between 4 and 5 engines, the original engines which operated the tramway, Simplex 'Rachel' and the Ruston 48DS, and a couple of extra additions for a bit of variety, mostly diesels but one steam engine thrown in for good measure

 

Simplex 4WP 'Rachel'

Ruston 48DS 4WD

Planet Hibberd 4WD: http://www.royalgunpowdermills.com/images/attractions/hibberd_planet_2008.jpg

Coffee Pot locomotive: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3612/3626791706_a7853a83a8.jpg (this is one of the examples owned by the Beamish Museum)

 

For the last loco I'm thinking something along the lines of a Fordson tractor but with rail wheels instead of tyres, something like this: http://s68.photobucket.com/albums/i8/dgwparfitt/images2/FordsonTr_Heidrick08_2.jpg but but basically replace the road wheels with rail wheels. Fitted with simple wooden bufferbeams at each end and 3 link couplings, capable of hauling 1 or 2 wagons at most. A bit of an oddity to be honest but something different I think.

 

I think that's everything at the moment, I've got a rough sketch of the main board that I'll post up once I've scanned it in tomorrow.

 

Let me know what you think.

 

TTFN!

[NeilHB]

Apologies for the double post but found a bit more out about the area and the route of the tramway.

 

A guided work in the area that uses part of the old tramway in several places:

 

http://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk/news/880811.get_off_the_train_at_burneside_and_walk/

 

The company who owned the paper mill at Cowan Head, with a bit more history of them:

 

http://www.jamescropper.com/about.html

 

And lastly a view of Burneside, the old goods yard which was the starting point of the tramway can just be seen in the bottom left of the picture:

 

http://www.visitcumbria.com/roger/burneside-rs0671.jpg

 

I think the cream building with the red door in the above photo was originally the goods shed for the station, but I'm not quite sure.

[Jamie]

Fantastically left-field choice. B)

I'd came across this tramway either directly or on a spin-off from one of Russ' layout schemes some time ago, and thought it was crying out for somebody to take on.

 

http://cra.photos.gb.net/p56415102.html

this shot looks more like a photo diorama than any that I've seen on the forum!

[Russ (mines a pint)]

Looks a very interesting choice, the Cumbrian Railway Association pics, its a great site that!

 

Look forward to seeing this come together.

 

Will you have to scratchbuild the engines?

[NeilHB]

Thanks guys,

 

Jamie, yes I'd thought the same as you, the aim of the second board is to try and capture the essence of this photograph, well hopefully so.

 

Russ, yes I love that website, spent so much time on it over the last couple of weeks I get withdrawal symptoms when I don't look at it

 

Yes I think I'm going to have to scratchbuild most of the locos, think I'll probably start with the Planet Hibberd as its nice and boxy and therefore relatively simple.

[LBSC123]

I like the looks of this Plan,

 

I'm going to have to improve on mine if I want too win!

 

I found tihs engine on Ebay looks similar(ish) too the locos in some of those pictures, it might be useful too you.

 

My link

 

Cheers,

 

Will

[NeilHB]

Thanks Will,

 

Oh I don't know, your plan is pretty good too.

 

Ooh nice find! Must admit I hadn't noticed that when I was browsing on there the other day...perhaps that will teach me to wear my glasses more!

[11D]

5th pic down is taken between Burneside and Bowston where the line ran alongside Winter Lane.

 

Simplex pics

 

There's a bit more on Simplex locos on the site. The site owner is restoring Simplex 2028 (which is very similar to the old Cropper's machine) and he's a helpful fellow if you need measurements or the like.

[Neil]

I've often wondered who'd be the first to do a version of the Burneside tramway, and I must say that I like your plan lots. It's one I'll be keeping an eye on I think.

[NeilHB]

5th pic down is taken between Burneside and Bowston where the line ran alongside Winter Lane.

 

Simplex pics

 

There's a bit more on Simplex locos on the site. The site owner is restoring Simplex 2028 (which is very similar to the old Cropper's machine) and he's a helpful fellow if you need measurements or the like.

 

 

Thanks 11D, those pictures are much appreciated. Ah brilliant, I'll have to get in contact and get some details from him.

 

 

I've often wondered who'd be the first to do a version of the Burneside tramway, and I must say that I like your plan lots. It's one I'll be keeping an eye on I think.

 

 

Thanks Neil. You don't happen to have any more details on the tramway do you? I've not had a lot of luck finding much information out about it.

[11D]

These guys are a good call:

 

Cumbrian Railways Association

 

They have a book on the Kendal & Windermere line that has more on the tramway. They also did a group visit to the tramway remains back in 2008 so are probably quite clued up.

 

Croppers history

 

I come from the area and did a recreation of the area (in the 30's) in a railsim a few years back. It was enjoyable, but as time has progressed I've learnt more, so my efforts were probably not terribly accurate...

[Brisbane King]

That really looks like a great thing! ? Can't wait to see how it turns out. ? Will certainly be following.

[NeilHB]

These guys are a good call:

 

Cumbrian Railways Association

 

They have a book on the Kendal & Windermere line that has more on the tramway. They also did a group visit to the tramway remains back in 2008 so are probably quite clued up.

 

Croppers history

 

I come from the area and did a recreation of the area (in the 30's) in a railsim a few years back. It was enjoyable, but as time has progressed I've learnt more, so my efforts were probably not terribly accurate...

 

 

Thanks 11D, I've used the Cumbrian Railways Association website in the past, but never realised that the book on the Kendal and Windermere line covered the tramway as well, needless to say I've ordered it from Amazon

 

 

That really looks like a great thing! Can't wait to see how it turns out. Will certainly be following.

 

Thanks.

[Neil]

Thanks Neil. You don't happen to have any more details on the tramway do you? I've not had a lot of luck finding much information out about it.

 

 

It looks like I've been beaten to the CRA Kendal and Windermere book recommendation; Croppers website used to have a little more on the tramway including a picture of the 48ds and a flatbed lorry in their yard but that's not been on their site for several years now. All this is fairly useless so far, but I do have a fairly complete trackplan for the tramway. Unfortunately it's in a format unsuitable for scanning, and there would be copyright issues too, however I'd be happy to post up sketch plans based on the information it contains if a particular location tickles your fancy.

[NeilHB]

It looks like I've been beaten to the CRA Kendal and Windermere book recommendation; Croppers website used to have a little more on the tramway including a picture of the 48ds and a flatbed lorry in their yard but that's not been on their site for several years now. All this is fairly useless so far, but I do have a fairly complete trackplan for the tramway. Unfortunately it's in a format unsuitable for scanning, and there would be copyright issues too, however I'd be happy to post up sketch plans based on the information it contains if a particular location tickles your fancy.

 

Thanks for that Neil. I think I might contact Croppers and see if they happen to have any old photos of the site still, perhaps I can model the paper mill one day as an add on to this! I'd be very happy to see the sketch plans that you have if that is ok? In particular I'm looking for the plan of the goods yard at Burneside, the route the tramway took through Bowston village and the track plan at the paper mill if that's possible? Hope that's not too much to ask, and thanks muchly in advance.

[Ramblin Rich]

Hi Neil

 

[shameless plug ]

I've got a book for sale here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/2569-more-books-for-sale/page__p__17552__fromsearch__1&?do=findComment&comment=17552 which has a sketch plan of the goods yard at Burneside. To be honest I haven't looked through the book for a while but I think it includes a plan of the roads around the station. Don't know if it's of interest to you?

[/shameless plug]

 

 

[NeilHB]

Hi Neil

 

[shameless plug ]

I've got a book for sale here http://www.rmweb.co....__1entry17552 which has a sketch plan of the goods yard at Burneside. To be honest I haven't looked through the book for a while but I think it includes a plan of the roads around the station. Don't know if it's of interest to you?

[/shameless plug]

 

 

 

 

Hi Rich,

 

Ah if only I'd seen that the other day, just ordered a copy of the Cumbrian Railway Association's version from Amazon, sod's law!

[Neil]

Hello Neil, here are the sketch plans of the line through Bowston Village and of the Mill at Burneside (it's a big building), I've not done Burneside goods yard yet as I think the plan in the CRA book which you've ordered is better than my rough scribling.

 

 

[NeilHB]

Thanks for those Neil, they're brilliant and very much appreciated!

[Neil]

You're most welcome Neil; look forward to see progress on your version of the tramway.

[Neil]

I've also found this link to some old views of the far extremity of the line at Cowan Head Mill, unfortunately no sign of the tramway but lots of atmosphere.

[NeilHB]

I've also found this link to some old views of the far extremity of the line at Cowan Head Mill, unfortunately no sign of the tramway but lots of atmosphere.

 

Thanks for that Neil, yes I agree the photos on the site have plenty of atmosphere, will certainly help in getting the layout to look right.

[NeilHB]

Hi all, just a quick note to say that work on my 2010 challenge entry has been suspended for the foreseeable future. My Dad passed away this morning, which though it was expected has still come has a huge shock: RIP Dad

 

When I feel up to re-starting work on both this and my main layout I will post updates.

 

From this point forward the layout is dedicated to the memory of dad, may he rest in peace.

[Russ (mines a pint)]

Oh sorry to hear that Neil, there's never a good time to receive news like this, but what a bad time. Wishing you sympathy from all of us here.

[Guest oldlugger]

Terrible news Neil and I hope you will feel a bit better soon. I know how this feels through bitter experience...

 

Anyway if you do continue with your layout idea, all I can say is, this is VERY much up my street. What a cracking good idea for a layout! I will follow this with much interest if you proceed. Good luck with it and look forward to seeing progress photos one day.

 

 

All the best to you and your family at this difficult time.

 

Simon