Beattock Summit

[Blobrick]

Beattock Summit Circ 1960

 

 

Hi Guys

 

Can anyone help?

I am looking for information concerning Beattock Summit around the 1960. In particular I am trying to find a track plan as I have so far been unable to peace to layout together from photos I ve found in various books and internetsites. Can any one help? Any cost invovled would of cause be reinbursed.

 

Many thanks in advance

Bob Crawford

Derby

[beast66606]

Ordnance survey maps

[Edwin_m]

www.signalbox.org appears to have box diagrams from North and South boxes at various dates.

[beast66606]

www.signalbox.org appears to have box diagrams from North and South boxes at various dates.

 

Those are the station not the summit

[Edwin_m]

D'oh...

[Katier]

Don't know if it helps but www.old-maps.co.uk have a 1957 map of Beatock and surrounding area, viewable online.

[Blobrick]

Thanks to everyone who have taken the time to respond to my cry for help. I ve tried the Old Maps site, unfortunately the map in question stops a little to far south of the summit, just my luck. However I am going to follow up on the OS map route, that still sounds promising!.

 

 

Many thanks everyone

 

Bob.C

[Guest Max Stafford]

The map that covers Elvanfoot might be more helpful as that station is a lot closer to summit than Beattock itself.

 

Don't know what number that sheet would be under the 1957 system though, sorry!

 

Dave.

[beast66606]

I've asked John Hinson if he has a diagram for the summit, I will let you know the response, (he's normally very helpful when asked)

 

cheers,

[Katier]

The map that covers Elvanfoot might be more helpful as that station is a lot closer to summit than Beattock itself.

 

Don't know what number that sheet would be under the 1957 system though, sorry!

 

Dave.

 

 

 

 

They have a 1961/62 map of Elvanfoot ( railway goes round quite a dramatic curve?)

 

 

 

[Blobrick]

Many thanks for asking on my behalf beast, I will keep my fingers crossed

 

Bob.C

[Guest Max Stafford]

They have a 1961/62 map of Elvanfoot ( railway goes round quite a dramatic curve?)

 

Yes, it's still an interesting bit of railway that!

 

Dave.

[beast66606]

Many thanks for asking on my behalf beast, I will keep my fingers crossed

 

Bob.C

 

John is digging one out, I will post the diagram and/or link when he's done it. I am also interested as I passed the site only last week on my way up to Scotland.

 

Are you going to make the enamel sign ?

[beast66606]

As if by magic

 

http://www.signalbox.org/diagrams.php?id=610

 

A big thank you to John Hinson for his assistance

[Blobrick]

First off I d like to say a VERY BIG thank you to both yourself besast, and especially to John Hinson for taking the time and trouble to assist me. This track diagram had turned into the "Holy Grail" as far as attmpting to locate a copy of it was concerned. What has been the iceing on the cake is that this version is even the correct date! So once again a big Thank you!

 

As to the layout, oh yes, I intend to try and capture as much of the feel as possible, including the large signal box sign, however I read somewhere that a new sign was produced around the early 60s so I ll need to be careful to ensure I use the correct one.

 

Ah well, now I can spend many happy hours locating the positions of signals and other infrastructure I ve seen in the few photographs I have found so far.

 

So BIG thank you to eveyone who has offered help in this quest, I count myself very lucky tobe a part of such a fantastic forum!!

 

One very happy

 

Bob.C

[Blobrick]

Having just started to look at the diagram, the 1st thing that struck me is that there appears to be no facing connection from the Up Main to the Up Loop, thus making the Up side more like "kick back" sdgs, than a loop. Even so the diagram calls the Up side track work, a loop? My first reaction was that the facing connection had been missed off the diagram, however the signalling is correct for the layout as shown, so I wonder if there had be an Up loop in the past, where its facing connection had been recovered?

 

Or does the Up loop start at the summit at the facing connection passed the Signal Box, and continue as a running loop all the way to Harthope?

 

Bob.C

[Blobrick]

No that was a daft idea, there is no other signalling on the Up Loop towards Harthope, and the splitting home taking you off the Up main has no Block release markings on its post. I doubt if it would have been permissively worked! So it seems that the Up side Loop was in fact two Lay by sdgs, which photos seem to suggest diverged as they ran north. Ho Hum, I can see the base boards becoming very wide at the north end!!!!

 

Bob.C

[beast66606]

Answering your questions based on my interpretation of the diagram.

 

I would suggest the up loop was accessed by running over points 33 and then setting back into one of the two lie byes - it's probably a typo calling it a loop, it's very easy to do, should probably be Up Refuge, the sectional appendix will tell.

 

It's definitely not a running loop, Harthope is an IBS, in very simple terms a remote signal, not a signal box with any points,

 

Signals 30/25 would not be block released anyway, it would be the IBS (27) or if that wasn't present the starter, (29)

 

hth

[Blobrick]

Hi Beast

 

Thanks for the reply, yes you are quite right the LCR is on the IBS. I seem to recall where this facility was provided, there was also provision for the LCR to "Drop" back to the original starter under failure conditions?

 

In practice recessing a train on the Up sounds more like Midland practice, than CR, however it will make operations a little more interesting!

[beast66606]

Thanks for the reply, yes you are quite right the LCR is on the IBS. I seem to recall where this facility was provided, there was also provision for the LCR to "Drop" back to the original starter under failure conditions?

 

Not 100% sure but that sounds like a two in a section recipe to me, the only IB I ever worked certainly didn't

[Grovenor]

Looking at some of the old maps I rather suspect the down side sidings were converted to a running loop at a fairly late date, quite likely WW2 when a lot of running loops were added to cope with war traffic, note this is conjecture rather than fact. the primary purpose of the sidings here is to deal with banking engines, releasing them and returning them whence they came, so while the up siding was available for a layby if needed it would mostly be holding the bankers till they got a path back, hence the departure signal leading in the down direction, initially wrong road.

Keith

[Blobrick]

Hi Keith

 

I can see why you ve come to that conclusion, unfortunately this plan is dated 1959, so the alterations you were discussing would have taken place by then. I agree that the Up "loop" is better suited to being used as a refuge for Banker etc, so it should added some more interest into the operation of this layout. Methinks I ll need a few more Fairburn tanks though!

 

Bob.C

[beast66606]

Hi Keith

 

I can see why you ve come to that conclusion, unfortunately this plan is dated 1959, so the alterations you were discussing would have taken place by then. I agree that the Up "loop" is better suited to being used as a refuge for Banker etc, so it should added some more interest into the operation of this layout. Methinks I ll need a few more Fairburn tanks though!

 

Bob.C

 

 

I have a 1937 and a 1960 appendix, I will try and look tonight and see what facilities / instructions are present

[beast66606]

Found this film on YouTube

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzOJM7R-AZU

 

It contains some clips of the Summit box, including a tantalising clip of the temporary panel that was installed during Motherwell stage works.

[The Stationmaster]

I wonder - from the 'spares' as much as anything else - if there had been an earlier Up Loop at Beattock Summit which was abolished for some reason? There is an Up Passenger Loop there now of course but that's not really any guide to what might have been there 60 or 80 years ago.