Freight through Fife in the late 70's

[jbg06003]

Hi guys,

 

I am currently in the early stages of constructing a model of Markinch in OO based around 1975 to 1981.

 

Not having managed to get hold of a suitable WTT (mandatory or otherwise) I am looking for some help in determining what freight services would be regular performers.

 

I am aware of the daily fish and parcels workings as well as the trip workings to Markinch itself, but I recall a variety of mixed freights as well as heavy northbound pipe workings. Can anyone help with these?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Bruce

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

Hi guys,

 

I am currently in the early stages of constructing a model of Markinch in OO based around 1975 to 1981.

 

Not having managed to get hold of a suitable WTT (mandatory or otherwise) I am looking for some help in determining what freight services would be regular performers.

 

I am aware of the daily fish and parcels workings as well as the trip workings to Markinch itself, but I recall a variety of mixed freights as well as heavy northbound pipe workings. Can anyone help with these?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Bruce

Bruce,

 

Ring Stewart Blencowe on 01452 412724, he will have a selection of Working Timetables for you to choose from and buy. I have a good selection myself but this a large topic and potentially very time consuming. Modelling opportunities include 'blues' grain hoppers, cement traffic and mixed freight. The WTTs even indicate the booked traction. British Rail album No1 ISBN 07110 0593 1 and Britains Railways in the Seventies ISBN 07110 0675x are both excellent books with relevant pictures and readily available from book websites such as ABE books. Good luck

 

Dave

[Guest Phil]

Don't forget one of the more dominant traffics was Fife coal, but maybe a just a little further south than Markinch.

 

Agri products, MOD stuff to Leuchars and Rosyth, oil, as well as maybe some explosives in GPVs. Jet fuel to Leuchars as well maybe.

 

Just a few things off the top of my head.

 

All tantalising stuff

 

 

PS - did a see a photo in the galleries recently of a 40 and an 06 at Markinch ?

 

EDIT

And I've just realised whose the photo was at Markinch (wheres the red faced emoticon gone ?)

 

Guess I would have been trying to teach granny to suck eggs !!!!!

['CHARD]

Hmmmmmm..... '75 onwards you say..? I have a feeling I will be adding to this thread quite a few times. I spent every summer in Kirkcaldy from '73 to '80-odd, a fair amount of which was spent checking out the main line action. I've certainly got loco notes, and possibly more besides.

 

One thing that strikes me immediately is the grain traffic to Cameron Bridge, the Tullis Russell paper mill workings and the amount of wagonload to intermediate stations. There was also scrap metal traffic. The siding referred to earlier was the Co-Op siding south of Markinch which was tripped by an 06.

 

Incidentally that WTT suggestion is a bit tasty. I shall avail myself of that phone number too.

[sulzer27jd]

Maybe a bit after your time but by the early 80's there was little timetabled freight during daylight.

 

Here is the link to my sequence for Balbeggie Sidings based on the 1981 WTT. The only bits that are extra are the MGR services to my fictitious loading facility.

 

http://www.fbuscotland.org/documents/schedule81.pdf

 

I can copy the WTT for you if you want.

 

Hope thats helpful

 

John

[Lokomotivfuhrer]

Crivens, help m' boab and Jings

 

John's pretty well on the button with his list.

 

These are all the Freight jobs I worked from Dundee through Fife. I've taken these straight from my 1979 to 1981 ASLEF Diary. I havent included the Headcodes as 30 year old diaries are making them a bit illegible. Besides John's are probably better.

 

01:50 Class 6 From Camperdown to Oxwellmains Cement 20x PCVs (empty) 2x Class 26/Class 40

02:02 Class 7 From Millerhill to Dundee (VVVs MCVs MCOs) Class 25/27

03:12 Class 4 From Portobello (London) to Dundee and Guild Street 15x FFAs (semi) Class 47

04:35 Class 4 From (London) Dundee and Guild Street 15x FFA/FGAs (semi) Class 47

18:30 class 6 From Millerhill (Oxwellmains) to Craiginches Cement 20x PCAs (loaded) 2x Class 26/Class 40

20:00 Class 6 From Millerhill (Oxwellmains) to Camperdown Cement 20x PCVs (loaded) Class 40

ey am Class 6 From Millerhill (Whitemoor) to Hillside and Burghead 20x BRT Grain Class 40

Evng Class 8 UNFITTED From Millerhill to Guild Street (pipes) 17x Bolster 2X Class 26

22:12 Class 6 From Dundee to Millerhill (VVVs MCVs MCOs) Class 25/27

lt ev. Class 6 From Dundee (Stanlow) to Leuchars Aircraft Fuel 20x TTAs 2x Class 20s

 

Where there is no time it because it varied depending on day, or again I cant determine times. Times are all at source ie. From ...., but those placenames in brackets were origin of working.

 

There were many others but the jobs were shared between Ferryhill, Thornton, Townhill, and Millerhill men, so I'm only able to refer to the ones that Dundee crews worked, with any degree of certainty.

 

There were also coal trip workings to Markinch (including sidings North of the Station bridge on the Down side), and to Ladybank and Cupar. AFAIK these were all worked by Thornton and Townhill crews.

 

Bear in mind I was a only a rookie Secondman in 1979. (Dundee MPD 62B)

[Cliff Williams]

This is a fantastic help - Bruce and I are both having a go at doing Markinch and are sharing notes along the way working out what is what. I watch and listen mainly though as I am too young to remember any of it

[jbg06003]

Crivens, help m' boab and Jings

 

John's pretty well on the button with his list.

 

These are all the Freight jobs I worked from Dundee through Fife. I've taken these straight from my 1979 to 1981 ASLEF Diary. I havent included the Headcodes as 30 year old diaries are making them a bit illegible. Besides John's are probably better.

 

01:50 Class 6 From Camperdown to Oxwellmains Cement 20x PCVs (empty) 2x Class 26/Class 40

02:02 Class 7 From Millerhill to Dundee (VVVs MCVs MCOs) Class 25/27

03:12 Class 4 From Portobello (London) to Dundee and Guild Street 15x FFAs (semi) Class 47

04:35 Class 4 From (London) Dundee and Guild Street 15x FFA/FGAs (semi) Class 47

18:30 class 6 From Millerhill (Oxwellmains) to Craiginches Cement 20x PCAs (loaded) 2x Class 26/Class 40

20:00 Class 6 From Millerhill (Oxwellmains) to Camperdown Cement 20x PCVs (loaded) Class 40

ey am Class 6 From Millerhill (Whitemoor) to Hillside and Burghead 20x BRT Grain Class 40

Evng Class 8 UNFITTED From Millerhill to Guild Street (pipes) 17x Bolster 2X Class 26

22:12 Class 6 From Dundee to Millerhill (VVVs MCVs MCOs) Class 25/27

lt ev. Class 6 From Dundee (Stanlow) to Leuchars Aircraft Fuel 20x TTAs 2x Class 20s

 

Where there is no time it because it varied depending on day, or again I cant determine times. Times are all at source ie. From ...., but those placenames in brackets were origin of working.

 

There were many others but the jobs were shared between Ferryhill, Thornton, Townhill, and Millerhill men, so I'm only able to refer to the ones that Dundee crews worked, with any degree of certainty.

 

There were also coal trip workings to Markinch (including sidings North of the Station bridge on the Down side), and to Ladybank and Cupar. AFAIK these were all worked by Thornton and Townhill crews.

 

Bear in mind I was a only a rookie Secondman in 1979. (Dundee MPD 62B)

 

 

John, Mark, Chard

 

Fantastic info guys - many thanks indeed.

 

The Auchmuty branch served Tullis Russell, DRG and Haigs factories. Coal, caustic soda, china clay and whisky(?) were the main traffic. Due to loading restrictions, this could involve 3-4 trips per day. The Co-op sidings were just to the north of the station and was for domestic house coal. Scrap metal and occasional other goods traffic was handled at the station itself. The loaded and empty vehicles were tripped to and from Thornton Yard - usually a class 20 duty although I do remember an up freight picking up stock from the up bay from time to time. I presume that this was the afternoon Perth to Millerhill working. It's all pretty much gone now (even the A4 tucked in the shed)...........

 

Thanks again,

 

Bruce

[jbg06003]

Maybe a bit after your time but by the early 80's there was little timetabled freight during daylight.

 

Here is the link to my sequence for Balbeggie Sidings based on the 1981 WTT. The only bits that are extra are the MGR services to my fictitious loading facility.

 

http://www.fbuscotland.org/documents/schedule81.pdf

 

I can copy the WTT for you if you want.

 

Hope thats helpful

 

John

 

John,

 

Thanks for the offer to copy the WTT - the 1981 WTT is the earliest I have so not necessary thanks. The model WTT is a work of art and a huge help. Living in Fife and actively photographing the line thro the 80's, if you are looking for pics of anything specific let me know and I'll stick them up in my gallery.

 

Thanks again,

 

Bruce

['CHARD]

Here ya go:

 

In Tom Noble's excellent Diesels on The Regions - ScR, there's a pic of 26044 about to cross the Forth into Fife with a stopping freight. As far as I can see the consist is as follows:

 

4 x 12T Shock-absorbing vent vans

1 x 16T coal/ open

another shoc van

what looks like a Pipe open

a lowfit? - steel bodied one-plank equivalent

2 x Prestwin (?) - upright cement carriers

approx a dozen 16T opens

two more Prestwins (?)

two/ three bogie bolsters with what looks like agricultural plant/ vehicles or possibly compressors on board

 

How much of this would reach Markinch is anybody's guess, but it's a good start and it is typical of what I remember seeing in the Kingdom in the period. Anyone else watching this thread remember the Kirkcaldy Harbour branch, and the network of BR metals at Burntisland? Also the pit at Dysart and Thomas Muir's scrapyard....

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

Bruce,

 

A couple of observations from the 1975 Section GG conditional WTT:

 

6S43 Doncaster - Muir of Ord empty 'blues' block grain empties, class 47

 

6N52 Oxwellmains - Inverness loaded cement in vacuum braked Cemflos or LAs, 2x24 or 2x26

 

7L02 Thornton - Dundee 24 or 26

 

7L03 Millerhill - Dundee 40

 

8P14 Thornton - Perth 24 or 26

 

6L29 Oxwellmains - Camperdown jcn, Cemflos, LAs class 40

 

8N45 Thornton - Inverness 24 or 26

 

7A09 Millerhill - Craiginches 24

 

6E64 Muir of Ord - Doncaster loaded 'blues' grain hoppers, class 40

 

various southbound empty cement cemflos with 2x24, 2x26 or 40

 

8V05 Inverness - Thornton

 

8V15 Perth - Thornton

 

7K91 Perth - Millerhill 40

 

6K92 Dundee - Millerhill 24 or 26

 

Hope these help

 

Dave

[jbg06003]

Thanks Dave - for my information what do you mean by 'LA's' in the cement workings? Just shows how much has been lost over the years.

 

Bruce

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

Thanks Dave - for my information what do you mean by 'LA's' in the cement workings? Just shows how much has been lost over the years.

 

Bruce

 

Bruce,

 

'LA' or cemflo was the common name for the PCV, 50 mph vac braked cement tank, very common on cement traffic out of Dunbar/Oxwellmains in the 70s.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

Bruce,

 

'LA' or cemflo was the common name for the PCV, 50 mph vac braked cement tank, very common on cement traffic out of Dunbar/Oxwellmains in the 70s.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

 

Bruce,

 

I've just noticed that i've got the empty/loaded runs of the 'blues' the wrong way round, obviously grain went to Scotland and the empties came back, sorry.

 

Dave

[jbg06003]

Thanks to all who have contributed up to now - it certainly begins to add labels to some of the trains I saw and photographed.

 

As a small token of thanks here's some pics.

 

 

'Chard mentioned the Dysart pit - or Dubbie shunt as it was known locally. Here 27037 hauls an Edinburgh to Dundee service past the remnants of the junction of the pit branch with the main line. There was also a station sited close by.

 

 

Kirkcaldy's third station was Sinclairton - here 27021 passes also with a northbound Dundee service.

 

 

South of the town was the large Seafield pit - here 20222 shunts engineers stock after closure of the pit. In happier days class 20's in 2's and 3's were needed to take away the coal.

 

 

Further north 40122 passes Leuchars with the southbound fish

 

If anyone has photos of the northbound pipe workings mentioned by Mark then I would love to see them.

 

Dundee shed

 

 

 

 

Hope this brings back some memories.

 

Bruce

['CHARD]

Bruce, they are great, thanks! 40122 completely anonymous in blue - celebrity as green D200 was a long way ahead, it looks awesome. 47342 a no-heat loco far from home, probably Crewe. The 27s on the Dundees are very familiar - I cleared the house of an elderly relative that backed onto the line (the house, not the relative) near to Sinclairtown Sta, it must have been spring '82 and they were clattering past the end of the yard every half hour or thereabouts.

 

Sinclairtown Sta was ultimately destroyed by fire I recall. Scoonie Hobbies (?)(with Wrenn on display in its window, I saved for ages for a J-something 0-6-0T from here) was close by its remains, with the giant lino works of Nairns (later Forbo Nairn) further down. All those mills mere memories now, again they were rail served but the connections were long gone by this time. I think Parkside are based in the vicinity these days.

[frobisher]

Dundee shed

 

 

Where did Dundee shed used to be located? Reason I ask is our office is down in Seabraes Yard so it must have been close.

[Scottish Modeller]

Bruce, they are great, thanks! 40122 completely anonymous in blue - celebrity as green D200 was a long way ahead, it looks awesome. 47342 a no-heat loco far from home, probably Crewe. The 27s on the Dundees are very familiar - I cleared the house of an elderly relative that backed onto the line (the house, not the relative) near to Sinclairtown Sta, it must have been spring '82 and they were clattering past the end of the yard every half hour or thereabouts.

 

Sinclairtown Sta was ultimately destroyed by fire I recall. Scoonie Hobbies (?)(with Wrenn on display in its window, I saved for ages for a J-something 0-6-0T from here) was close by its remains, with the giant lino works of Nairns (later Forbo Nairn) further down. All those mills mere memories now, again they were rail served but the connections were long gone by this time. I think Parkside are based in the vicinity these days.

 

Hi all,

 

Remember to do searches direct on FOTOPIC and on FlickR

 

These will produce better results than doing any Searche Engine queries like Google.

 

My Fotopic Markinch search (suprise suprise) is:-

 

http://community.fotopic.net/search/simple.php?tab=C&txt=Markinch

 

And my FlickR Markinch search is:-

 

http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=Markinch

 

I also have a Photobucket search:-

 

http://photobucket.com/images/Markinch/

 

Now - I'm not sating that you are sure to get the results that you want - these are just starting places!

 

With the number of contributors to these site - you should remember to search on each station name that the traffic you are looking at passes through. You may be suprised at some of the results...

 

I have numerous searches (over 100) set up with a batchfile that does them automatically once a week!

 

Hope this helps

 

Phil H

[sulzer27jd]

Where did Dundee shed used to be located? Reason I ask is our office is down in Seabraes Yard so it must have been close.

 

The "wee" shed (the one that became the diesel depot) was located at the west end of the whole Seabraes area. If you stand in the playpark at the bottom of Roseangle and look back towards the station the shed was located between the tenement block and the running lines.

 

http://john-duffy.fo.../p24923969.html

 

seen to the left in this photo.

 

In the photo of the class 40 in this thread you can see the church at the top of Roseangle and the top of the university tower.

 

The entrance was down Roseangle and not far from the bottom off to the left, "a cinder path" led to the sheds.

 

The facilities were quite extensive with (if memory serves) 8 roads. 4 were used as stabling and 4 were the workshops.

 

John

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

Bruce,

 

BR Diesel freight in the era of specialisation by Michael Oakley has a very useful close up of B922785 a bogie bolster 'c' loaded with large diameter gas pipes waiting to leave Inverness in 1974.

 

15 of these bogie bolsters make up a train for 2x24 or 2x26.

 

Hope this helps

 

Dave

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

Bruce,

 

At Barrowmore MRG we've built and are building many wagon types, for our 1977 P4 layout 'Mostyn'. Click on the link to see a few of them and access the various diagram books which will give you the essential dimensions of the wagons that you will need for your project

 

http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/Prototype.html

 

Cheers

 

Dave

[brian daniels]

Here is a bit of Dundee shed taken on the walk from the station to the depot from a bit of a park if I remember.

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

Bruce,

 

Another valuable picture of how the pipes were loaded and secured as well as showing their 'out of gauge' nature is in BR Diesels in the Highlands, Bradford Barton, by G. Weekes. Using a known dimension (the railhead - buffer centre height) to get an accurate estimate of the pipe diameter, leads me to suggest that the individual pipe diameter in 'OO' or P4 will be around 9.36mm, thin wall brass tube would give the best result.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

[sulzer27jd]

Here is a bit of Dundee shed taken on the walk from the station to the depot from a bit of a park if I remember.

 

Ah - overdose of nostalgia. This is how I remember things, although we have probably drifted off of Freight in Fife!

 

The bit of park is Seabraes, a small garden area overlooking the the Tay. There is now a set of steps leading down to what would have been the yard and freightliner depot, although back then there was no public access. It used to be ideal for watching loose shunting, an activity that was conducted with vigour and not the slow speed operation seen on most models.

 

There was also a direct footpath from the station although this was meant for railway staff. It crossed the platforms on a bridge then passed the signalbox and brought you across the yard.

 

This is a great shot and shows a 101 on the turntable, possible reassembling a set. Dundee did a great deal of maintenance on the DMU fleet and you would often see 3 car sets with odd colour matches or even a single car subbing for a missing driving vehicle.

 

You would often get half a dozen locos on shed at any time but Sundays were best when the shed could be quite full.

 

John

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

Bruce,

 

Apologies for the error in calculation but the likely pipe diameter that you will need is actually 11.61mm. Also P67 of Working wagons volume 2 by Dave Larkin shows the appearence of a pipe carrying bogie bolster 'c' without the pipes.

 

Cheers

 

Dave