Any Question Answered

[Winchat]

Has anyone converted the Revolution Class 128 to FS?

 

I have looked at this site and the GroupIO but couldn't find anything.  Have I missed something?

 

A quick check of the wheel specs are dia 6.3mm, pin point axle length 13.6mm.  As far as I can tell the driving wheels have a shoulder boss of 2.5 mm dia and a stub axle fitting into the gear muff of 1.1 mm in dia. 

 

By the look of it I don't think any of the present range of wheels will fit.

 

The driving bogie is a bit unusual in that the ends of the sides are not fixed to the central portion of the bogie.

 

Kind regards

 

Geoff

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Izzy]

Not read of any conversion myself but that doesn’t mean it hasn’t been done. However more likely you are the first to want to do it. The new wheels for Dapol conversions might be a solution, if the muffs can be bored out to suit their stub axle diameter - have no idea what that is not having used any yet. Otherwise pin-point axle conversions are difficult due to the need to shift the wheel on the axle, if that is indeed possible, and that is besides machining the wheels. 
 

Bob

[GER_Jon]

The Dapol wheel sizes by my measurement are

3-333   7.5mm

3-336   7mm

3-339   6mm

 

 

[Izzy]

1 hour ago, GER_Jon said:

The Dapol wheel sizes by my measurement are

3-333   7.5mm

3-336   7mm

3-339   6mm

 

 

That’s handy to know @GER_Jon thanks. Would the stub axle diameter be the standard 1.5mm? I don’t know what Dapol use as I haven’t any locos to check at present.

 

Bob

[Yorkshire Square]

6 hours ago, Izzy said:

That’s handy to know @GER_Jon thanks. Would the stub axle diameter be the standard 1.5mm? I don’t know what Dapol use as I haven’t any locos to check at present.

 

Bob

 

As I understand it they're all different diameter axles and the length over pinpoints aren't the same either. You end up with items that are only suitable for a specific model or a small group of models. Frustrating to say the least. 

[VRBroadgauge]

15 hours ago, Izzy said:

Otherwise pin-point axle conversions are difficult due to the need to shift the wheel on the axle, if that is indeed possible, and that is besides machining the wheels. 
 

Bob

 

I've been regauging Association wheelsets from 9.42 to 10.5mm gauge. I just made up a jig out of styrene (plasticard) and moved the wheels accordingly after some careful measurements.  I've had excellent results. Is this what you're referring to?

[Izzy]

9 hours ago, Yorkshire Square said:

 

As I understand it they're all different diameter axles and the length over pinpoints aren't the same either. You end up with items that are only suitable for a specific model or a small group of models. Frustrating to say the least. 

I’d say! Thanks for the heads up. This is the big downside of pin-point axle collection where there is no collective standard. All the makers in the differing scales seem to be going their own ways with all wheel standards and designs which makes it very awkward to say the least when you want either consistently or to adjust/alter things. 

 

8 hours ago, VRBroadgauge said:

 

I've been regauging Association wheelsets from 9.42 to 10.5mm gauge. I just made up a jig out of styrene (plasticard) and moved the wheels accordingly after some careful measurements.  I've had excellent results. Is this what you're referring to?

 

Not exactly, rather the distance from the outer wheel face to the end of the pin-point, which of course can vary with not only the overall wheel width but the length/angle of the pin-point and the design of the outer frame. This is crucial as the gear meshing mostly relies on them being right. The tender wheels in the Farish locos that use them are a pain for example as being just plain mazak castings as soon as you shift them they generally become loose on the axle.
 

Bob

 

[Winchat]

Thank you to those who responded to my question.

 

It looks like the Dapol wheel set is the way to go but I guess the end result will depend on the wall thickness of the muff.

 

I have ordered the wheel set from the Shop and I will let you know how I get on.

 

Kind regards

 

Geoff

[tapdieuk]

Just to add Revolution's 59 wheel dimensions (in mm) are:

7.17 dia for the tread

13.65 over pin points 

Bearing journal behind wheel 2.57 dia x 1.43

Gear outer diameter measured 5.05mm with 15 teeth. 

 

Give the subtle complexity of the wheel sets (inside bearings, outside pinpoint electrical collection. I am inclined to skim the flanges off and fit Assocation tyres. 

 

Will

 

 

[Winchat]

2 hours ago, tapdieuk said:

Just to add Revolution's 59 wheel dimensions (in mm) are:

7.17 dia for the tread

13.65 over pin points 

Bearing journal behind wheel 2.57 dia x 1.43

Gear outer diameter measured 5.05mm with 15 teeth. 

 

Give the subtle complexity of the wheel sets (inside bearings, outside pinpoint electrical collection. I am inclined to skim the flanges off and fit Assocation tyres. 

 

Will

 

 

 

 

 

Did you get it back together again after the Zoom meeting Will?  😄

 

Skiming the flanges off is all well and good if you have a lathe.  I don't have one and if I did probably every living thing in the village would be in mortal danger.

 

Kind regards

 

Geoff

 

 

 

[Nig H]

Hi,

 

I’m about to make some stay-alives but before I do, a few questions. First, can they be tested before connecting to the decoder, and how? Secondly, if I’m using a CT Elektronic DCX74z, do I need to program the decoder first? The motor will be a Faulhaber 1219 or 1016. Any advice most welcome.

 

Nigel Hunt 

[Donw]

You can change CVs whenever you want. The only thing you should do first is set the CV not to run on DC  this will stop it treating the Stay Alive supply as DC and charging off a high speed with no way to control it.

I would also avoid too much stay alive.

 

Don

 

[Izzy]

With those CT decoders I've fitted with home brew SA's I've always set the decoder up first because I was told it's not possible to program them, certainly on a program track, once the SA is hooked up. Attempts to do it seem to back this up. With other decoders such as Zimo they have circuitry that allows this to happen, but I still like to set any decoder up first to make sure all is okay before adding the SA.

 

You can test individual capacitors using a MM to confirm they are okay and hold a charge. To test a SA pack you hook it up  ... 😀 With small packs you don't really know they are working apart from any material difference in running quality. However, sometimes that difference can be significant.

 

Bob

[Nigelcliffe]

Testing a simple stay-alive (capacitor, resistor, diodes) without a decoder:   simple way is to use a 12v DC input voltage (smooth 12v, not the output from a H&M controller), and connect a small LED and resistor (something around 10kohm, so long as the LED lights) over the 12v as well.   Power on, and the LED lights.     Disconnect the 12v.   The LED should stay on for a while, decaying as the voltage declines.    
Similarly, if there are any LEDs in a loco, those can be used as evidence of stay-alive functioning. 

 

Programming.   As indicated, yes, set CV29 before you start, and set the address.    Thereafter depends on the decoder, some CT's and some programming tracks can be problematic, others are fine.      However, if you have the address, then Programming on the Main works fine all the time. 

 

Bear in mind that Programming on the Main doesn't have "read" ability (unless you've got RailCom and RailCom capable decoders), so you either need values you read earlier or are trusting the manuals (ha ha), or going blind on the changes being made.  If using a computer with JMRI, then the sensible approach is to read everything before adding the stay-alive, then you know all the starting positions, and subsequent programming (on the main or programming track) from JMRI will be changes to the pre-stored values for that specific decoder.     

 

 

I'd fit as much capacity as there is space, particularly if using a Zimo decoder (there's a trick in a Zimo which needs big power reserves).   That means checking if any of the commercial devices fit as those usually use much more energy dense capacitors than home-built.   The size of commercially available devices keeps changing, eg, the relatively recent Zimo Staco-3 devices are fairly small, and I've seen a pre-production sample from another maker which is much smaller again (can't reveal who until they announce the product).   

 

In most decoders one can control the run-on time with settings in the decoder (ie. how far it will run without a DCC signal before the decoder will decide to stop).  And thus a massive stay-alive can't run for a yard or more without DCC signal.     CT's don't have that run-on time setting. 

 

 

 

 

[Nick Mitchell]

When you do connect everything up, if you're feeling nervous you can separate the stay-alive pack from the loco with fairly long wires, and have it trailing behind in a (plastic bodied) wagon for testing.

Then if you have got something wrong and it blows up, you won't damage your loco :)

[Caley Jim]

Another, rather crude, way is to simply lift the loco of the track while it is running. If the SA is working, the wheels will keep on turning for a short time. How long depends on the size of the SA. 

 

Jim 

[Nig H]

10 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said:

Testing a simple stay-alive (capacitor, resistor, diodes) without a decoder:   simple way is to use a 12v DC input voltage (smooth 12v, not the output from a H&M controller), and connect a small LED and resistor (something around 10kohm, so long as the LED lights) over the 12v as well.   Power on, and the LED lights.     Disconnect the 12v.   The LED should stay on for a while, decaying as the voltage declines.    
Similarly, if there are any LEDs in a loco, those can be used as evidence of stay-alive functioning. 

 

Programming.   As indicated, yes, set CV29 before you start, and set the address.    Thereafter depends on the decoder, some CT's and some programming tracks can be problematic, others are fine.      However, if you have the address, then Programming on the Main works fine all the time. 

 

Bear in mind that Programming on the Main doesn't have "read" ability (unless you've got RailCom and RailCom capable decoders), so you either need values you read earlier or are trusting the manuals (ha ha), or going blind on the changes being made.  If using a computer with JMRI, then the sensible approach is to read everything before adding the stay-alive, then you know all the starting positions, and subsequent programming (on the main or programming track) from JMRI will be changes to the pre-stored values for that specific decoder.     

 

 

I'd fit as much capacity as there is space, particularly if using a Zimo decoder (there's a trick in a Zimo which needs big power reserves).   That means checking if any of the commercial devices fit as those usually use much more energy dense capacitors than home-built.   The size of commercially available devices keeps changing, eg, the relatively recent Zimo Staco-3 devices are fairly small, and I've seen a pre-production sample from another maker which is much smaller again (can't reveal who until they announce the product).   

 

In most decoders one can control the run-on time with settings in the decoder (ie. how far it will run without a DCC signal before the decoder will decide to stop).  And thus a massive stay-alive can't run for a yard or more without DCC signal.     CT's don't have that run-on time setting. 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for your help. Should the led and resistor be in series or parallel, and should they be in parallel with the stay-alive or in series?

 

Nigel Hunt 

[Nigelcliffe]

7 minutes ago, Nig H said:

Thanks for your help. Should the led and resistor be in series or parallel, and should they be in parallel with the stay-alive or in series?

 

Nigel Hunt 

 

 

LED+Resistor are in series with each other.      The (LED+Resistor) combination is then in parallel with the stay-alive unit.    

 

A 9volt battery would also function as a test power source, and may be simpler to arrange.    The positive from the DC power source, goes to the positive connection on the stay-alive module.

[Caley Jim]

One of our group members has made up a little test circuit, housed in a plasticard box holding the led+resistor and an dpdt switch, with crock clips to the SA on one set of leads and a 9v battery socket on the other. Plug in the battery and clip onto the stay alive, throw the switch to charge the SA, then the other way, and the led should glow and then fade. 

 

Jim

[yaxxbarl]

Has anyone got any good recommendations on good push-to-make intermittent contact pushbutton switches as a replacement for the ones supplied with SEEP uncoupling magnets?

 

The ones supplied by SEEP aren't that robust as the plastic base comes away eventually with use, so anything of metal construction would be preferred.

 

Cheers,

 

John

Edited yesterday at 09:35 by yaxxbarl

[Crosland]

1 hour ago, yaxxbarl said:

Has anyone got any good recommendations on good push-to-make intermittent contact pushbutton switches as a replacement for the ones supplied with SEEP uncoupling magnets?

Are you powering them with AC or DC?

 

What current?

 

The rating for a given switch will be much lower for DC.

[yaxxbarl]

10 minutes ago, Crosland said:

Are you powering them with AC or DC?

 

What current?

 

The rating for a given switch will be much lower for DC.

I'm running them on 24V AC - Gaugemaster's instructions suggest between 18 and 25V AC, so it's within the operating range for the magnet.

[Donw]

The old electric pencil method will work with no issue of contacts burning out.

 

Don

[ShadowinLinby]

What about these John

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/263254189899?var=564465896490

 

ChrisB

 

[Caley Jim]

I much prefer c/o biased spdt or biased off spst  toggle switches. 

 

Jim