Any Question Answered

[Graham Hughes]

Thanks for the suggestions about track. Not so sure about the baulk road one. I did make a short length once from the drawing of the Midland Railway variety in George Dow's Midland Style. I used code 40 FB rail on PCB "timbers" and flooded the base of the rail with solder to represent the wider base of the bridge rail. Not sure it was particularly accurate but it looked reasonable enough.

I am planning to model the GNSR around the beginning of the 20th Century. I have been scrolling through the thousands of pages of the GNSRA CD of back issues of Great North Review going back to 1964 and have found some more information on track. I initially discounted easitrac because of the sleeper length but from the information I have found the GNSR buried the ends of the sleepers in the ballast around that time so maybe that is not an issue, (although so far I have yet to see any photos in which the sleeper ends are not visible) It would also hide the outside of the chairs to some extent. I do like the idea of the plastic chairs on the ply sleepers. I built quite a bit of 3mm scale 14.2mm gauge track from plastic chairs on styrene strip sleepers and that worked rather well. I built on a thick sub-base of .100" styrene sheet so didn't have problems with warping but I do like the idea of ply sleepers  I was looking at the chairs Wayne Kinney does as part of his N range which seem very like the Association chairs and noted he has ones with pegs on the bottom. Then I see in the latest 2mm magazine the Association is intending to do them as well. Somewhere in an old Model Railways from around the mid '70s I have an article with drawings to make a punch to produce ply sleepers with holes for P4 ply and rivet track. I need to look it out and see if I can build a half size version and use the chairs with pegs on. Versaline looks interesting but I haven't seen any in the flesh as it were. I think I need to get enough of each from the shop to build a test length and see which looks best built up. I enjoy building track and don't mind a bit of extra effort to get it right for my own satisfaction, even if nobody can tell the difference when it is done. The last 2mm FS track I built was with the plain section rail and the whitemetal chairpins (who remembers those?)

[Donw]

I did a test build of the pinned chairs for the association I found the 'pin' made them stronger at what is a weak point.  I did build ply and rivet track in EM years ago but to be honest the chairs glue down easy enough to the ply sleepers. The rail used for the N finetrack is the same section as ours I believe the difference being the flangeways. Can I suggest 1/16th Balsa as a track base the ply will stick down nicely with PVA and the balsa can be stuck down onto the baseboard.

Don

 

ps the other thing I tried was to print a templot out using photographic paper rather than ordinary copier paper seemed less likely to crinkle or stretch with pva

Edited December 17, 2014 by Donw

[Graham Hughes]

My thinking about the chairs with pins was that if I could make the punch to make the sleepers rather than have to cut them individually then it was designed to make holes in them at the same time so I may as well use them. I can't say I have ever really got anywhere with Templot. Certainly nowhere near anything that was ready to be printed on any sort of paper.

[martin_wynne]

ps the other thing I tried was to print a templot out using photographic paper rather than ordinary copier paper seemed less likely to crinkle or stretch with pva

 

Hi Don,

 

Try using thicker paper than ordinary 80gsm copier paper.

 

160gsm paper is ideal for track templates and a lot less expensive than photo paper. It is almost a thin card, which means the trimmed pages can be butted together like tiles, which makes aligning them accurately much easier. And it's thick enough not to cockle when glued.

 

Martin.

[Izzy]

One point (!) to be aware of with the plastic chairs is that the pegged ones are made in acetal rather than glueable plastic, so aren't fixable to the sleepers with such as butanone, Mek-Pak, Plastic Magic etc and you need then to use cryno etc. I can well see the perceived advantages of the pegged chairs for easy location, but the downside is the holes must be very accurate, and there is no flexibility/wiggle room with regards to adjustment i.e. gauge widening, or general bodging (normally what I do) in respect of finessing such as check rails and suchlike.

 

An advantage of the simple glued down chairs on ply sleepers is that you can easily slide a scalpel blade between them and, lift/adjust/replace and re-glue them. I did this with this little plaything built using some odd spare points I'd made where I managed to add/splice a couple of single blade catches into the loop point.

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/81001-signal-position-advice/

 

Not the highest quality I know, but might give you a few more ideas.

 

Izzy

[Graham Hughes]

One point (!) to be aware of with the plastic chairs is that the pegged ones are made in acetal rather than glueable plastic,

Surely that can't be right as the note in the 2mm Magazine said the plan was to alter the mould so it produced one sprue of each at the same time.  

 

 

 

 I can well see the perceived advantages of the pegged chairs for easy location, but the downside is the holes must be very accurate, and there is no flexibility/wiggle room with regards to adjustment

 

Depends how big you make the holes. I was thinking slightly oversize ones and fix the chairs in place with a dab of epoxy. I need to find out that drawing for a sleeper punch and see it is buildable. I certainly don't intend drilling holes in sleepers one at a time if it isn't.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Graham Hughes

[Donw]

The chairs could be produced in Acetal, some of the ordinary chairs will be. On trial the acetal ones proved to be a bit stronger ( I had less failure rate in threading them on) and I had no problems fixing them with cyno. The reason they were being tried was that some people have had trouble with the ABS chairs when soldering nearby. I don't know if any descision has been made as to what material to use with the Acetal chairs should be a problem with the pinned trackwork though.

 

Don

[2mm Andy]

As far as I know, the plan is to produce the pegged chairs in ABS (ie as per the existing chair sprues). The Acetyl chairs were a completely separate product idea following some tests that Geoff Jones instigated (and which Don assisted with as noted above). From memory the feedback on the Acetyl chairs was quite mixed.

 

I got some sample sleepers laser-cut in 0.8mm ply with holes in for pegged chairs earlier this year, but they were very weak around the holes, and quite a few fractured during assembly, so I abandoned that idea. I'd be interested to see if punching the holes can produce a better result.

 

Andy

[Jim T]

Just a quickie! I've just ordered some Association wheels to rewheel a few of the newish Farish Mark 2 coaches. These have B4 bogies with 6mm wheels so I ordered 6mm diameter plain disc wheels on the 15.2mm axles recommended for Farish in the shop list. Unfortunately the axles are too long. Checking with a micrometer the Farish axles are about 14.0mm.

 

Anyone any ideas on a way forward other than turning the Farish wheels down? Can I somehow shorten the ends of the axles on the Association wheels I have, or replace the axles? I can't see a 14mm axle on any of the shop lists though?

[queensquare]

Just a quickie! I've just ordered some Association wheels to rewheel a few of the newish Farish Mark 2 coaches. These have B4 bogies with 6mm wheels so I ordered 6mm diameter plain disc wheels on the 15.2mm axles recommended for Farish in the shop list. Unfortunately the axles are too long. Checking with a micrometer the Farish axles are about 14.0mm.

Anyone any ideas on a way forward other than turning the Farish wheels down? Can I somehow shorten the ends of the axles on the Association wheels I have, or replace the axles? I can't see a 14mm axle on any of the shop lists though?

Unfortunately Farish axle lengths seem to be flitting all over the place between 14 and around 15.2 which makes it near impossible for the Association to keep up. It would be so much easier if Farish settled on a fixed axle length.

I would advice using the wheels on 15.2 on something else and either getting the Farish wheels turned down or popping some bearings in the Farish bogies so they suit a different axle length. I've just bought a couple of the very nice new MR brake vans and have a similar decision to make as these have 14mm axles.

 

Jerry

[Chris Higgs]

Unfortunately Farish axle lengths seem to be flitting all over the place between 14 and around 15.2 which makes it near impossible for the Association to keep up. It would be so much easier if Farish settled on a fixed axle length.

I would advice using the wheels on 15.2 on something else and either getting the Farish wheels turned down or popping some bearings in the Farish bogies so they suit a different axle length. I've just bought a couple of the very nice new MR brake vans and have a similar decision to make as these have 14mm axles.

 

Jerry

 

I would have thought the following are worth a try for the Mk2s. These are sufficiently close that one stroke of a file would redice them to 14mm if they still are too long.

 

2-022   6mm plain disc wagon wheels (14.20mm axle) 

 

There are other wheels on this length axle probably OK for the MR brake van.

 

Chris

[Jim T]

Thanks for the advice guys. Has anyone got a picture comparing the profile of Association turned Farish wheels (the newer style ones!) against the "proper" Association profile? Are they really indistinguishable?

 

I might make myself a little jig and drill the centres of the wheels I've got to turn them into 3-hole wagon wheels so I can use them on Farish freight stock conversions, then either buy the 14.2mm axle wheels or get my Farish ones turned.

 

I like the idea of having stuff turned (I don't like throwing things away and can't imagine I'd want to turn my stock back to N gauge). I like the idea of turning wheels down myself even more, if I can find someone to show me how to do it well! Does anyone have success with a clamped mini drill and hand held tools or do you need a proper micro lathe and toolpost??

 

The moral of my story is to buy the Farish item first and measure the axle length rather than assuming!

 

Is there mileage in putting together a table showing the axle lengths of various RTR items to help folks avoid this trap?

[Izzy]

I have tried both routes with mixed results depending on the models involved, as it seems the coning on the Farish axles and mouldings varies a bit now, and some 2mm axles/wheels don't seem to run too freely in them even at the correct axle length. If you do decide to turn down the Farish wheels then you might find that there is also a need to reduce the overall width to about 1.5mm as well, so the fronts don't rub on the inside of the frames, as they are also narrower than usual (looks better anyway).

 

Overall, using 12.25 wheels/axles and fitting the brass bearings (you can mount them in thin plasticard glued to the inside of the frames to space them correctly as needed) appears to be an easier and better way and the method I now use.

 

It might be useful to know that there are two 2mmSA axle coning angles used. The standard 60° on 12.25 and 14.8 (the latter to match Peco), and a sharper angle on 15.2/14.2/13.7 primarily to match Farish (never measured the angle).

 

Izzy

[Chris Higgs]

It might be useful to know that there are two 2mmSA axle coning angles used. The standard 60° on 12.25 and 14.8 (the latter to match Peco), and a sharper angle on 15.2/14.2/13.7 primarily to match Farish (never measured the angle).

 

Izzy

 

This is true, the angle used on the 12.25mm axles is to suit our bearings and does not work well in commercial stock. It was specifically designed for having scale width wagon frames, and that not much flexing of the axleguards to get the wheels in and out is needed. 

 

Despite the 14.8mm being touted for many many years as for Peco wagons, my experience is that the 15.2mm axles with the sharper angle work better, with just the slightest touch of a file on the ends.

 

There may be merit in fitting bearings, if you feel you can get the resulting width correct. In 4mm scale it is a well know effect for sharply pointed wheels designed for brass bearings to wear their way completely through a plastic underframe or bogie.

 

Chris

[Izzy]

Thanks for the advice guys. Has anyone got a picture comparing the profile of Association turned Farish wheels (the newer style ones!) against the "proper" Association profile? Are they really indistinguishable?

 

No, they are quite different, the only common factor really being the flange depth of 0.5mm (for the particular RP25/80 profile often used in N). Using converted N/RP25 wheels set to the 2FS 8.5mm btb (normally achieved by taking 0.2mm of the rear of the flange to reduce it to the 0.3mm 2FS figure) is really a fudge that just manages to work okay under most circumstances. It's not ideal, but often the only workable solution with much RTR N stuff.

 

Izzy

[jonas]

I've sent my form off to the society today - I've committed!

 

As a complete newbie, can anyone tell me whether it's possible to convert Dapol dogfish? I've a few I would like to convert for my 37 to haul - looking at the society shop there are so many options! The 37 seems simple enough - just 6 axels of 3-071 required. Am I amble to 'drop in' something similar to my n gauge wagons?

 

Thanks in advance!

[modfather]

Take an axle out and measure the length. Pick the most similar wheel set to order.

 

If nothing matches, send them off for turning.

[jonas]

As simple as that! Thank you :-)

Edited December 24, 2014 by jonas

[justin1985]

I'd say it's really worth getting hold of the Stephen Harris etches for catfish and dogfish for 2FS rather than converting the Dapol ones - they blow the detail of the Dapol ones out of the water. The chunky axle guards, handrail detail and awkward coupling pocket that is integral with the deck just didn't cut it for me with 2FS track etc. the Harris etches are not an easy kit though, but worth it if you're confident soldering.

 

However, for recent Farish wagons like the Seacow, OCA, TTA etc just use the replacement axles - double check the lengths for each type of wagon though - Farish fluctuate their designs.

 

Oh, and welcome to the association - I've really admired your weathering on the forum for a long time!

Edited December 26, 2014 by justin1985

[modfather]

I think Stephen has a kit for the tanks too - tarting them up isn't easy as Bryn found out.

[justin1985]

There is a nicely illustrated list of Stephen's kits on the 2mm Association website - although it looks like it might not have been updated for a good few years, hence no mention of the tank kit the modfather mentioned. The models on the site are hand lettered, but I think you can cover most of them from the N Gauge Society\Modelmaster range for the 60s period, and from Railtec or using generic TOPS panels etc from the Fox range, for the 80s/90s period. 

 

http://2mm.org.uk/small_suppliers/stephenharris/index.htm

[DavidLong]

There is a nicely illustrated list of Stephen's kits on the 2mm Association website - although it looks like it might not have been updated for a good few years, hence no mention of the tank kit the modfather mentioned. The models on the site are hand lettered, but I think you can cover most of them from the N Gauge Society\Modelmaster range for the 60s period, and from Railtec or using generic TOPS panels etc from the Fox range, for the 80s/90s period. 

 

http://2mm.org.uk/small_suppliers/stephenharris/index.htm

 

I was talking to Stephen a couple of days ago and he acknowledges that his illustrated list hasn't been updated recently and he hopes to get around to it sometime soon. However, if you telephone him (he doesn't do email at present) he will always be happy to discuss any requirements that you may have and update you on any kits which don't currently appear on the list. If you are a member of the Association then I think that most of them have been covered by his notes in the Newsletter section but there may be some such as the Freightliner flats which he hasn't officially released. Just ask, you never know what you may find!

 

David

[Valentin]

Is it a rule on how to fit the buffer beam to the footplate?

 

The buffer beam goes over the footplate (1) or the footplate goes on top of the buffer beam (2)?

 

Here is a drawing.

[Izzy]

I don't believe that there is any rule as such. Whether you are concerned with a prototype or model it basically revolves around the actual design, and if the footplate was high enough to be over the top of the buffer beam. With most steam locos it was, and so is fairly common, but there are many exceptions for a wide variety of reasons.

 

Izzy

[oily]

Does anyone have experience of the use of tweezer handpieces for resistance soldering. There's an example shown at

 

https://www.americanbeautytools.com/Resistance-Soldering/125

 

This seems to be the cheapest and designed for model work, they make much smaller finer ones that are much more expensive. And chunky one if you want to really heat up something.

 

Oli