RMweb Gold Mikkel Posted June 26, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 26, 2011 I'm currently searching my books and the web for examples of short Edwardian GWR trains. The excellent Warwickshire Railways site has some nice examples, but I had trouble identifying the coaches in three of the photos. Any help would be greatly appreciated, If anyone is up for the challenge First one is this photo: http://www.warwicksh...wr/gwrls245.htm * Van, three-arc roof, maybe a 4-wheel V5 or V11? * Luggage compo. Tricky, but could be a single-arc 6-wheeler? In that case, maybe a U16? or a 4-wheel U12? * Third. If single-arc 6-wheeler, then maybe an S3? Second one is here: http://www.warwicksh.../lms/mra453.htm * Van, probably a V2? * Non-corr. 8 compt bogie - couldn't find anything that fitted this exactly in my books Finally, there is: http://www.warwicksh...wr/gwrha655.htm * 3-arc 4-wheelers, including brake 3rd, centre luggage first/compo, bke compo? But here I'm completely at a loss for the diagrams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penrhos1920 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Photo 1 The first coach has 7†eaves panel and is the last style of GWR 4 wheel coaches. It could either be a V11 or V5, it’s impossible to say at this angle. The V11 was 2’ longer than V5 and each section had 4 panels rather than 3 as the V5. The V5 is well illustrated in Russell's first coach book in figure 99. I've not found a definite photo of a V11. The second and third coaches appear to be the same height as the first coach, but have deeper eaves panels; which suggests they are 12†deep. However, there were only 20 5 compartment 4 wheelers built and no 6 wheelers so the last coach must be 9†eaves making it the common S3. So the middle coach also has 9†eaves panels so that means it must have a single arc roof and is therefore a U12 or U16. U12 was 3rd, 1st, luggage, 1st, 2nd. U16 was 2nd, 1st, luggage, 1st, 2nd and much more numerous. Photo 2 The van is definitely V2. The bogie coach is a brake composite, notice that there are wider panels between the far compartments, there are possible a first and a second class compartment. It has 7†eaves and is almost certainly 8’6â€wide as it appears to have 6 end panels. If there were only 5 panels it would be only 8’ wide. So it is probably LE7W by the Lewis classification (follow the links in my signature to find a page about the Lewis classification of early GWR coaches), or LE7N if narrow. I cannot find an exact match but I have eliminated many diagrams and got it down to a list of 11 designs which I don’t know much about: E20-24, E29, E30, E49, E51, E52, E54. The list could include higher diagrams above E67, but by then I think they were all gangway designs. At the moment my money is on E51 as Harris says that these were Brake Tri-composites built for branch line use. Photo 3 The first coach is either T51 or T52 depending who you listen to. The certainty is that it is one of about 50 coaches built on lots 403 and 412. Lewis classification is LE7N. It has 4 3rd class compartments with a guard and luggage compartment in the middle. There are double luggage doors and a separate guard’s door with a lookout in between. A distant view of another coach to this design can be found in GW Auto trailers part 1 page 150. Another photo in GWR journal vol.133 page 568 shows a similar coach with its lookout removed behind the Dean Goods. For the second coach I’m torn between 2 camps. Looking at the eaves panels I think they are 12†tall, but that would make the coach the same height as the coaches either side. The other option is that the eaves panels are only 9†tall which corresponds with a shorter height coach, but then eaves would be only 2†less than the coaches either side and the difference looks greater than that. The only 12†eaves coaches with 4 compartments and a central luggage compartment was U21, originally built it was 1st, 2nd, luggage, 2nd, 1st, Lewis classification LA12N. A good photo of U21 is in Russell’s first book, figure 48. If it has 9†eaves that brings us to the options of U12 or U16 as per the first photo. The third coach is a T34. A 3 compartment brake third, 7†eaves and 3 arc roof. Starting from the far end of the coach there are a pair of panels, a pair of luggage compartment doors with droplights, another pair of panels, a guard’s door with droplight, a lookout and then 3 3rd class compartments. Figure 44 in Russell’s first coach book it a good photograph, except the panels have been covered over. So that is my twopennies. There are options for most of the coaches, I cannot be 100% certain. one day I will finish the identification guide on me website and you can try to use it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Mikkel Posted June 26, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 26, 2011 Many, many thanks for this elaborate reply! It looks like photo 1 is taken care of - or at least as certain as we can be at this point. I'll have a closer look at your notes for the other two and compare with the photos. I'm an occasional visitor to your website but had missed the Lewis classification system there. Clever stuff, many thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 The only comment that I can add is that the first coach in the third photo appears to be a 6-wheel coach. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penrhos1920 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 The only comment that I can add is that the first coach in the third photo appears to be a 6-wheel coach. Adrian Yes, T51 / T52 were originally built with 6 wheels and some were converted to 4. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Mikkel Posted June 28, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 28, 2011 Thanks Adrian for pointing out that the T51/52 seems to be in 6-wheel condition, I hadn't noticed. Penhros, I spent a pleasant half hour going over your notes again, and it all seems to make good sense. Once again many thanks for the help. The idea is to draw up a list of various prototypical short trains, and replicate a selection of them on Farthing, as far as possible. It seems clear now that it will have to be approximations in most cases, as I don't have all the exact diagrams. But if at least I could have the same types of vehicle it should make a pleasant exercise. I happen to have some of the diagrams mentioned here as models already, to which one or two "stand-ins" for the above diagrams could (eventually!) be added from Blacksmith/IKB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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