Despatcher Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I am trying to change the Function Key assignements for my locos with V4 decoders. I have this goal to have the same sound attached to the same Function Key for each loco to save reading a chart for each loco when I want to blow a whistle, or have flange squeal for example. I understand that I need to look at the tables on page 46/47. I understand, or think I do, that if I want to assign sound slot 2 to F6 I need to enter 2 in CV 446. I also think I understand that CV 32 also needs to be set to 2. But where are the CVs for forward and reverse as with V3.5? I am doing all this with a Dynamis with Pro Box. This process was relatively easy with V3.5, once it had been explained through these pages. Why do I no longer understand. The manual quite clearly says: "For each Function Key, there are 3 control CVs. Each Function Key exists twice, one for driving forwards one for driving backwards." pp43 Well according to my maths, forward is one, backwards is two, so what is the third? Am I missing something obvious here, as I cannot find this info in the manual? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 I think you are correct in the reading of the table on pg46/47. Set CV32 first, then the CV's you have identified. The V4 English manual is full of errors. You've just found another one; if you follow on from the text you've quoted to the example which follows, it does not remotely correspond to the data in the tables (though would work if it were the F0 key which is directional). Now, if the text is correct, the table on pg 46-47 is useless and programming these decoders is next to impossible with the information provided. Or, if the table is (mostly) correct, the text is wrong. I would try going with the table data and treat the text as approximate at best. The pg46-67 table shows six control CV's per function key, covering outputs (*1), logic functions (*2) and sound functions (*3). But all six are non-directional except for F0 (Headlamp), "stationary" and "moving". ( The table on page 45 clearly has an error in the first column, values 3 and 4 are duplicated. Then the text describing that table has further errors or the corrected table is arranged somewhat illogically. ) Digging out a German language manual might help, and see what it says. Its possible that some of the errors are stupid auto-translation mistakes or failures to update the text to match tables, or similar. I don't have a V4 decoder here to test against. - Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Despatcher Posted July 1, 2011 Author Share Posted July 1, 2011 Interestingly, if I use the table on page 47 which details "Sound functions 1", which are in the main the ones I want to move round I can swap the functions around. eg pp47 if I make sure CV 32 is set to 2 and take the value for CV 446 (control Cv for Function 6) and sound slot 6 (32), which is the platform whistle, and enter it in CV 398 (control CV for Function 3), then the platform whistle is assigned to Function 3. Like wise if I then enter 4 (sound slot 3 value - short engine whistle) back into CV 446 then Function 6 becomes short train whistle. Both of these sounds work in both direction and while stationary in both direction (which seems to be what the first four rows on page 46 do. By playing I toggled CVs270/286 between 1 and 0(stand forward/stand backward) on page 47 which would, according to the table turn sound on and off (all by entering 1 apparently). The result was that with the sound off, changing the value of these two CVs turned the main decoder sound on or off while the loco was stationary depending on whether the loco was set for forward or reverse. So with F1 off (no sound) and with one of CVs 270and 286 set to 0 and the other to 1, I could turn sound on and off by changing loco direction on my dynamis. Had no effect on sound slots 2 - 8. However I still do not know how to adapt a sound function to only work in one direction (similar to V3.5) and as per the manual I quoted earlier "pp43 right hand side For each function key there are 3 control CVs .......... one for driving forwards and one for driving backwards ................" Impossible!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Ava_Hay Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Interestingly, if I use the table on page 47 which details "Sound functions 1", which are in the main the ones I want to move round I can swap the functions around. eg pp47 if I make sure CV 32 is set to 2 and take the value for CV 446 (control Cv for Function 6) and sound slot 6 (32), which is the platform whistle, and enter it in CV 398 (control CV for Function 3), then the platform whistle is assigned to Function 3. Like wise if I then enter 4 (sound slot 3 value - short engine whistle) back into CV 446 then Function 6 becomes short train whistle. Both of these sounds work in both direction and while stationary in both direction (which seems to be what the first four rows on page 46 do. By playing I toggled CVs270/286 between 1 and 0(stand forward/stand backward) on page 47 which would, according to the table turn sound on and off (all by entering 1 apparently). The result was that with the sound off, changing the value of these two CVs turned the main decoder sound on or off while the loco was stationary depending on whether the loco was set for forward or reverse. So with F1 off (no sound) and with one of CVs 270and 286 set to 0 and the other to 1, I could turn sound on and off by changing loco direction on my dynamis. Had no effect on sound slots 2 - 8. However I still do not know how to adapt a sound function to only work in one direction (similar to V3.5) and as per the manual I quoted earlier "pp43 right hand side For each function key there are 3 control CVs .......... one for driving forwards and one for driving backwards ................" Impossible!!! We are of course waiting for the software to catch up. The ability that Nigel displays in using CV's to change sound slots on V3.5 is just a tad lost on me because I use a Lokprogrammer and home grown projects so, if I want to remap functions, I just use Lokprogrammer. The software is a bit like DecoderPro on screen and there are some screen shots on the Showcase where I have detailed how to get coasting. I dread to think how many buttons I would need to push to do that using CV's only or even if I could. This of course is how DecoderPro and all the software for sound decoders has gone commercial. All the RTR chips have to use the manufacturers software and that is currently why we have no current sound projects for the UK that fit in and use all the benefits of V4. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Despatcher Posted July 1, 2011 Author Share Posted July 1, 2011 I have a Lokprogrammer but I cannot make it talk to my laptop (Vista) so Dynamis and Pro Box is what I have and what I use. I do not intend to have my own sound projects just yet or even ever. I am looking at the Sprogg interface that Nigel suggested but cannot find a downloadable manual on the World Wide Interweb. Yet! I have "played" some more today and I think all would be possible if the first 6 items (stand forward, drive forward, lights forward and same 3 in reverse) in the left hand vertical column were instead in the upper horizontal column. Each Function Key would then have a dedicated CV to access these 6 functions. Just as each Function Key has a dedicated CV for each separate physicall, logic and sound function. So just pressing one function key could, in theory, trigger over 30 simultaneous events. Although the decoder would probably melt first! I did try flange squeal, loco whistle, coupling all on one function key, just to prove my thinking was correct, and that worked just fine. So I can allocate all sorts of things to different Function Keys but I cannot switch them on and off depending on direction of loco. So, have almost got there but cannot fathom out the logic of the final piece of the jigsaw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Sprog - details of hardware installation and basic setup on makers website, including manuals http://www.sprog-dcc.co.uk/download.html Software for Sprog - JMRI (aka DecoderPro) comes from www.jmri.org. Detailed manual for DecoderPro is on that site. You can run JMRI in various simulation modes without any hardware connection. JMRI is an open-source hobby project, so what gets added is what the volunteer coders write based on information from makers. LokSound 3.5 is covered. The 4.0 is covered at a basic level in the test releases (the indexed CV's through CV32 capability is working), though some more work is required on the presentation of the function mapping; this is not a massive amount of work and is likely to get improved in the very near future. - Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tarifa Posted July 5, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 5, 2011 I have a Lokprogrammer but I cannot make it talk to my laptop (Vista) so Dynamis and Pro Box is what I have and what I use. Have you tried downloading the VISTA driver from the ESU web site, it solved a similar problem for me. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Urquhart Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I have this goal to have the same sound attached to the same Function Key for each loco to save reading a chart for each loco when I want to blow a whistle, or have flange squeal for example. From 2011! There seems to be some common interest in getting rid of the chart pinned to the side of the layout that I, and many, modellers must have. Arecwe any further forward? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I have this goal to have the same sound attached to the same Function Key for each loco to save reading a chart for each loco when I want to blow a whistle, or have flange squeal for example. From 2011! There seems to be some common interest in getting rid of the chart pinned to the side of the layout that I, and many, modellers must have. Arecwe any further forward? Yes, if you have a computer interface to do programming, and a copy of JMRI. Or a LokProgrammer (quite expensive for just function mapping changes). Both have similar user interfaces for function mapping and can map any feature to any key within a LokSound V4 decoder. Doing it manually with CV changes on a handset is understood, but its an awfully large amount of work. - Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ColinK Posted November 19, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 19, 2015 I have this goal to have the same sound attached to the same Function Key for each loco to save reading a chart for each loco when I want to blow a whistle, or have flange squeal for example. From 2011! There seems to be some common interest in getting rid of the chart pinned to the side of the layout that I, and many, modellers must have. Arecwe any further forward? John, I have the same aim too. I know it is possible to reallocate all the functions if you are a programming expert, but I'm not. Ideally all the sound project producers would agree a standard list for the main functions, but I don't expect that to happen. Perhaps an alternative would be for exhibitions to have a DCC help stand where you could take along your locos and get the functions remapped. I would be happy to pay for this service. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 This, may, be of help ? Esu are now producing How To Videos,on their main website. Lok programmer http://www.esu.eu/en/videos/lokprogrammer/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiggy1 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 It would be interesting to see what other people's idea of a function list would be. F0 and F1 are as standard but what would you like on the rest F2 onwards. I think what would be good for someone running a small shunting yard would not suit a main line layout or a country halt. I know if you know how you can change the settings to suit yourself but not everyone wants to do this just plug and play. Could be interesting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Urquhart Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Gentlemen, thank you for your responses. Am I correct thinking that a Lok programmer connects to the test track in the same way as my Dynamis does now, but presents a GUI for programming? It seems to be ~£120 which is a little ore than a loaded chip, which seems reasonable, but I suspect hidden costs beyond... Wiggy1, great idea. What sounds do I like, which don't bother me? Dispatcher's whistle on a freight loco irritates me, and you don't need buffer or coupling for an HST. That aside, here's a starter: F2 horn 1 F3 horn 2 F4 door slamming F5 dispatcher's whistle F6 brake release (usually part of initiation sequence, but stick with me) F7 flange squeal F8 buffer F9 coupling F10 cab light ....that would do me fine for 90% of the time. Using the shift key irritates a bit, so I would reserve higher locations for some of the esoteric sounds I have encountered: F11 relay "tick over" - actually very prototypical and convincing, I like that F12 seagull F13 etc, etc... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiggy1 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Gentlemen, thank you for your responses. Am I correct thinking that a Lok programmer connects to the test track in the same way as my Dynamis does now, but presents a GUI for programming? It seems to be ~£120 which is a little ore than a loaded chip, which seems reasonable, but I suspect hidden costs beyond... Wiggy1, great idea. What sounds do I like, which don't bother me? Dispatcher's whistle on a freight loco irritates me, and you don't need buffer or coupling for an HST. That aside, here's a starter: F2 horn 1 F3 horn 2 F4 door slamming F5 dispatcher's whistle F6 brake release (usually part of initiation sequence, but stick with me) F7 flange squeal F8 buffer F9 coupling F10 cab light ....that would do me fine for 90% of the time. Using the shift key irritates a bit, so I would reserve higher locations for some of the esoteric sounds I have encountered: F11 relay "tick over" - actually very prototypical and convincing, I like that F12 seagull F13 etc, etc... Hi John, What would you or others have for steam locos? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Hi John, What would you or others have for steam locos? A nice quiet corner. Sorry. Couldn't resist that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Urquhart Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I used to have a Black 5 with sound, but in ignorance of how they work, I used only the obvious sounds, whistle, brake. I am not the person to ask; I don't know what the other sounds represented. I no longer have any sound equipped steaam locomotives. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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