Railway Quiz

[John B]

How about at Victoria, on the LBSC? The original semaphores introduced by the London & Croydon Railway were also 3-position..

[The Stationmaster]

I'll repeat the original question as we're now over the page -

"Paddington is, I think, probably quite well known as the site of the first US style three position semaphore to appear in this country but where in the London area were there rather larger scale installations of 3 position semaphores and which Company was most commonly involved in terms of the ownership of lines so signalled?"

The key point is 'rather larger scale' - i.e more than the odd signal or two. We've had the Ealing & Shepherds Bush Railway which was one such installation - spread over several miles of double line and the inference is that the signals followed the pattern set by the US (and subsequently British) 3 position system. What we're now after are the other 'rather larger scale' (i.e. more than one or two, or thereabouts, odd signals) but proper complete installations of 3 position semaphores, in the London area, as well as the railway Company most commonly involved in terms of ownership of lines so signalled.

Victoria LBSC is incorrect - it was resignalled in 1908 using Sykes electro-mechanical equipment which lasted until resignalling with colour lights.

[The Stationmaster]

No more offers?

 

Seems a clue might be in order - the lever frame for one of these 'larger installations' met a watery end while enroute to the site.

[The Stationmaster]

Still no takers - don't forget then that you are looking in the London area (and I've an idea without looking at it that most of the answer can be found in one book although it does contain an error (of omission) which might influence the answer to the second part of the question. (and if nobody gets this one the next one - about tickets - might be even harder)

[The Stationmaster]

Another clue - the locations involved were major stations.

[EddieB]

Seeing as I posess none of the canonical works on British railway signalling, I'm guessing (most likely incorrectly) that it could be something to do with signalling to allow "permissive block" working on the Great Northern main line.

[The Stationmaster]

Seeing as I posess none of the canonical works on British railway signalling, I'm guessing (most likely incorrectly) that it could be something to do with signalling to allow "permissive block" working on the Great Northern main line.

 

You don't really need such volumes on your shelves but an interest in certain stations in the aforementioned city might help. And inadvertently you have headed in the right direction (physically that is).

[EddieB]

Or, continuing the theme of permissive working , could it be Victoria* and the South East and Chatham reginalling of 1920 using supplementary discs (the Southern Railway re-signalling with three position semaphores of the LBSCR pattern in 1924)?

 

*Starting to sound like a game of Cluedo, when all but the suspect is known!

[The Stationmaster]

Or, continuing the theme of permissive working , could it be Victoria* and the South East and Chatham reginalling of 1920 using supplementary discs (the Southern Railway re-signalling with three position semaphores of the LBSCR pattern in 1924)?

 

*Starting to sound like a game of Cluedo, when all but the suspect is known!

 

Well you're sort of there on one of them Victoria SE&CR side was resignalled in 1920 with a US design of interlocking and 3 position UQ semaphores plus 3 position disc signals; the original lever frame for the job had gone to the bottom of the Atlantic courtesy the Imperial German Navy and in any case the intervention of the war had delayed work on the scheme. So that has added a second to the Ealing & Shepherds Bush - still not complete on the first part of the question and there's also the second part. But progress is progress. (and I'm shortly off to do some concreting provide my daughter has dug out the footing for me).

[EddieB]

Who was that Greek fellow who tried to slay the many heads of the Hydra?

 

Jumping in with both feet, without any checking, if you've laid a clue in response to my suggestion of working on the Great Northern main line, could it be Kings Cross, on the Widened Lines with the lead piping Metropolitan Railway?

[The Stationmaster]

Who was that Greek fellow who tried to slay the many heads of the Hydra?

 

Jumping in with both feet, without any checking, if you've laid a clue in response to my suggestion of working on the Great Northern main line, could it be Kings Cross, on the Widened Lines with the lead piping Metropolitan Railway?

 

You are very warm indeed, perhaps a 'bridge' too far. And don't forget the second part of the question.

[The Stationmaster]

Not tempted then Eddie? Ok I'll round this one out and set another - hopefully much simper(?) one.

 

The three locations in the London area which used 3 position UQ signals as part of a large installation were the Ealing & Shepherds Bush Railway (owned by the GWR - who purchased that signalling system for the line), the Chatham side of Victoria station and signalling (which was held on a 999 year lease jointly by the SE&CR and the GWR), and Kings Cross where the GNR installed 6 such arms to control the Up Relief Line between Belle Isle and Kings Cross station. In terms of ownership, albeit only leasehold at Victoria, the GWR had ownership of lines at two locations where such schemes involving such signals had been installed.

 

Right now a nice simple one Following on from long established practice of the 'old' companies BR issued to senior staff 'Silver' and 'Gold' travel passes (nowadays they are simply bits of credit card size plastic) but what is the difference between them in terms of what the holder is allowed?

[multiprinter]

The Gold medallion holders were also entitled to a free sleeping car berth and permitted to travel in passenger train brake vans.

 

Assuming my memory hasn't let me down and the above is correct, I'll leave you to set another question Mike as I'm short of time for another few days.

[Oldddudders]

I'm sure multiprinter is right. I'm also sure about the story I heard many years back, of a deceased senior railwayman, whose grieving (well, maybe) widow loyally returned his railway items to BR. They included a gold medallion. "Gold? Hang on - he was only entitled to silver!" Sure enough - he'd had it dipped!

 

Sadly, as Mike points out, the current plastic passes - mine is silver, of course - do not lend themselves to being dipped, even if you could find a sleeper to claim!

[The Stationmaster]

I'm sure multiprinter is right. I'm also sure about the story I heard many years back, of a deceased senior railwayman, whose grieving (well, maybe) widow loyally returned his railway items to BR. They included a gold medallion. "Gold? Hang on - he was only entitled to silver!" Sure enough - he'd had it dipped!

 

Sadly, as Mike points out, the current plastic passes - mine is silver, of course - do not lend themselves to being dipped, even if you could find a sleeper to claim!

 

Multiprinter is absolutely right - the free sleeper berth is now the only difference between a Silver Pass and a Gold Pass - the brakevan bit (for both passenger and freight trains at one time) went in BR days although not all that long back I believe despite most freight brakevans having long been consigned to oblivion. And, as Ian knows, 'silver' is nowadays little more than a euphemism for the 'silvery grey' strip along the top of the thing and the latest re-issue looks even more like grey than the previous one. The 'gold' on the other hand is even worse as it looked to me - on the last one that I saw a few years back - little better han a sort of muddy brown which looked a bit more gold coloured from some angles.

 

 

According to the Ticket Inspector's Handbook the final BR pattern of true 'medallion' passes had the arrow symbol in the appropriate colour with a different coloured background according to which one it was and the whole lot under a sort of plastic or enamelled surface on a metal background. The older BR and company ones were much fancier and were only distinguishable by their base colour or Company coat of arms hence their susceptibility to 'dipping'.

 

So we now have one in the bank for Multiprinter and we'll go to another once very common area with a few abbreviations which relate to parcels rated traffic - what do the following mean - PLA, DL, and CL?

[EddieB]

No, I was quite happy to walk away from the three-position signals having gone as far as I could. Great Western, you say? Probably explains why I couldn't get there.

 

Anyway,

 

PLA = Passengers' (Unaccompanied) Luggage in Advance

DL = Delivered luggage

CL = Collected luggage

[The Stationmaster]

No, I was quite happy to walk away from the three-position signals having gone as far as I could. Great Western, you say? Probably explains why I couldn't get there.

 

Anyway,

 

PLA = Passengers' (Unaccompanied) Luggage in Advance

DL = Delivered luggage

CL = Collected luggage

 

Precisely so Eddie - back to you. (I won't ask what colour the labels were)

[EddieB]

Sorry for the delay, just back and little time to prepare, so here's one from "stock".

 

This locomotive, the leader of a batch of fifteen, was the first of its wheel arrangement into service with one of the "main" companies. It carried a name by which this wheel arrangement was widely known, the wheel arrangement itself being widely used in Britain subsequently.

 

(Oddly enough, it seems that the locomotive did not confer its name on the wheel arrangement - that honour befall a similarly named locomotive in the USA some years earlier.)

 

What was the running number carried by the locomotive in question?

[pH]

527

[EddieB]

Yep, probably too easy given my attraction to things Great Eastern.

 

Loco number 527, delivered in 1879, was the first British 2-6-0 and was named "Mogul" -as it appears was a loco built for the Central Railroad of New Jersey in 1866 which gave its name to the type.

 

Over to you, O measurer of acidity and alkalinity.

[pH]

What were the last two engines of Gresley design to be withdrawn by British Railways? (Or one of them would be OK - they appear to have been withdrawn at the same time.)

[jwealleans]

A3 and A4, in 1966?

[Oldddudders]

How about Class 76?

[jwealleans]

Yes, that's a better answer - although the OP's question would imply that the EM2s were also a Gresley design, which they aren't generally regarded as being (http://www.lner.info/locos/Electric/em2.shtml).

[EddieB]

Yes, that's a better answer - although the OP's question would imply that the EM2s were also a Gresley design, which they aren't generally regarded as being (http://www.lner.info...ctric/em2.shtml).

 

I think you're mixing up the EM1 (class 76, Bo-Bo) with EM2 (class 77, Co-Co), the former outlasting the latter on British Railways (the EM2s being sold to the Dutch State Railways). But seeing as the Em1`s were withdrawn en bloc, I don't think this is what the qustionner is after!