Geoff Endacott Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 On the previous incarnation of RMweb we established that the roof arrangement on the Bachmann Brush 4 was correct for D1521-D1615 and D1682-D1781. However, as is often the case, things aren't that simple. Early locomotives had the three-piece radiator grilles and later ones had the two-piece slatted variety. I am trying to come up with suitable numbers for green Brush 4s as running in mid-1970 and Brush Veteran's archive photos are very helpful. However, what they have done is shown that most of the locos in the Bachmann batch still had three-piece grilles in 1970. So which locos from 1970 can be depicted by the Bachmann model of 1764? Thanks. Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 From what I can tell the shutters replaced the grills at the same time as the locos were dual braked. I have a database of livery, heating and brake changes taken from the Railway Observer from 1970 to 1979 but only for the Western Region allocations. Below is the table for 1st January 1970 Western 47s 1970.doc c=Spanner boiler vacuum braked only, e= Spanner boiler dual braked, h=Clayton boiler dual braked Hope this is of use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted November 26, 2009 Author Share Posted November 26, 2009 Thanks for that. I can now work out some of the options and will post the possibilities here once I have done so. Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffles Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 From what I can tell the shutters replaced the grills at the same time as the locos were dual braked. I have a database of livery, heating and brake changes taken from the Railway Observer from 1970 to 1979 but only for the Western Region allocations. Below is the table for 1st January 1970 Western 47s 1970.doc c=Spanner boiler vacuum braked only, e= Spanner boiler dual braked, h=Clayton boiler dual braked Hope this is of use. Generally, that is the rule as it involved the removal of the rad drain tanks that necessitated the fitting of the louvres but... (you knew that was coming) Some locos around the D1660 range were fitted with three-part grilles despite being air braked from new. Louvres were retro-fitted at a later date. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted November 26, 2009 Author Share Posted November 26, 2009 Some locos around the D1660 range were fitted with three-part grilles depsite being air braked from new. Louvres were retro-fitted at a leter date. However, locos around the D1660 range don't match the Bachmann model for other reasons and have already been ruled out as candidates for renumbering. Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffles Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 However, locos around the D1660 range don't match the Bachmann model for other reasons and have already been ruled out as candidates for renumbering. Geoff Endacott True Geoff, I was just pointing out that there were locos that were air-braked with the fixed grilles fitted. A small point, I grant you, but there were probably other examples although I don't have that info to hand right now. I guess a photo is the only true information source. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted November 26, 2009 Author Share Posted November 26, 2009 I guess a photo is the only true information source... ...and that is the main problem. There were 512 of the things so finding photos of specific locos within a small batch is proving very difficult. So far I have found one, of 1613. Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffles Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Hmmmm. 1613. From the info I have, the air brakes were fitted April 1969 which, incidentally, is around the time it received it's full yellow ends, possibly during it's Intermediate overhaul at Crewe Works. Interestingly, it was renumbered to 47033 on 27/03/74 but didn't receive a coat of blue paint until December of the same year. EDIT: This may interest you Geoff... 1605 was air braked in March 1969 and I have a photo of it showing the freshly fitted louvres dated 06/04/69. By this time (presumably during it's intermediate overhaul - March '69) it also received the full yellow ends. It didn't go blue until April 1972. D1608 is also shown in a photo taken 17/11/70 with full yellow ends and louvres. Air brakes were fitted December 1968 and blue paint came Jan '74. Intermediate overhaul was Dec 1968 at Crewe Works. It would seem that the changes were often made during works time but there's a couple to give you some options. P.S 1612 is also an option... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Generally, that is the rule as it involved the removal of the rad drain tanks that necessitated the fitting of the louvres but... (you knew that was coming) Some locos around the D1660 range were fitted with three-part grilles despite being air braked from new. Louvres were retro-fitted at a later date. I was looking through Power of the 47s this lunchtime before work and noticed 1651 exactly as you describe. So as you've pointed out for this Clayton batch you have to tread with care. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffles Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 I was looking through Power of the 47s this lunchtime before work and noticed 1651 exactly as you describe. So as you've pointed out for this Clayton batch you have to tread with care. You do indeed... D1631-D1685 were all dual braked from build and if D1661/2 (backed up by photos) were built with 3-part grilles, it is likely that it's predecessors were. Worth pointing out that D1631-D1638 were fitted with Stone-Vapor boilers just to complicate matters. 47's are a minefield. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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