To signal or not to signal?

[RichardEyre]

Ok, so I think I've decided to go for a bracket signal in the way into the station. I'll need a starter on the platform too, but would that just be a single full size arm? As Mike suggests I'll have the rest as ground frames.

[The Stationmaster]

Ok, so I think I've decided to go for a bracket signal in the way into the station. I'll need a starter on the platform too, but would that just be a single full size arm? As Mike suggests I'll have the rest as ground frames.

The Starter on the platform would indeed be just a single full size arm, you will also need a disc reading out of the runround loop onto the mainline at that end. I must admit to puzzling more than a little about the Home Signal and what reads into the goods yard and I think it should really just be an ordinary semaphore with a full size arm reading to the platform and a co-located ground disc to read into the yard. I've been looking for examples in the right part of the country - without success so far - but I always tend to think of the miniature semaphore as being used for a 'train movement' and that would not happen into the yard (although admittedly the small bracket with a miniature semaphore looks much nicer and I can quote a suitable example in similar circumstances but it's in Scotland and was definitely a post 1948 job. Perhaps Signal Engineer could clarify on the finesse of the LM approach in these circumstances?

[TheSignalEngineer]

Facing connections into sidings tended to be a bit rare on the Midland lines. In my experience miniature semaphore arms tended to be used for Goods loops, and a mixture of either miniature semaphore arms or ground signals for sidings, depending on the layout and sighting/ method of working. Examples I have seen include a ground signal at Grassington for the private siding, whilst at Lloyds Sidings South, Corby, there were miniature semaphore arms on a bracket signal but that was because the roads with facing moves in were double ended.

In this situation I would probably go with a straight post Home signal reading to the platform with other moves in being controlled by ground signals.

[RichardEyre]

Thanks Mike and TheSignalEngineer. I've spent some time putting together a diagram of the recommendations from the thread. Hopefully I've understood it all correctly.

 

[TheSignalEngineer]

A ground signal will be required in the neck reading back into the sidings, and one in the sidings reading to the neck or branch. The latter could be a double disc or a yellow one.

 

Also if you wish to leave anything standing on the run-round during shunting a second disc to the right of the home signal could be provided to go back and pick it up. Depending on the use of the run-round, the necessity of a trap at the release points should be considered.

[The Stationmaster]

A ground signal will be required in the neck reading back into the sidings, and one in the sidings reading to the neck or branch. The latter could be a double disc or a yellow one.

 

A lot depends on when things were altered/provided but if you have a yellow arm disc reading out of the sidings you don't need a disc reading back out of the neck. If you have a red arm disc (or the two as SE mentioned) then you would, ideally need a red disc reading back out of the neck.

Also if you wish to leave anything standing on the run-round during shunting a second disc to the right of the home signal could be provided to go back and pick it up. Depending on the use of the run-round, the necessity of a trap at the release points should be considered.

Agree absolutely - I simply regarded it as a runround ad therefore didn't bother with this but if you wish to use it for shunting then a disc should be provided at the toe of those points too.

 

Incidentally I very purposely avoided mentioning an Advanced Starting Signal as I consider it very unlikely one would have existed at a location of this natuture and in view of the sort of working you have in mind. If it is 'preservation era' then one might appear as some 'preservationists' love to over-signal to the extent that Mckenzie & Holland would be wishing they were back in independent existence and had the contract to supply the kit.

[RichardEyre]

OK, v2 attached... Hopefully I've got them in the right place.

 

 

If I'm honest, you lost me somewhat on the trapping on the loop. What usage would require additional trapping?

 

Edit: it appears my post and that of the stationmaster have overlapped, so the inclusion of both the yellow ground signal and the one in the neck is incorrect.