Sylvian Tennant Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 I have three models from Hornby of the LMS 20T long wheelbase brake vans. All of which I plan to modify and paints and weather and that. But can I just ask what was the box under frames of a lot of them I initally though it was the vacuum equipment but I have seen grey one and some which appear to be unfitted with them. Thank you very much Sylvian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsv1000r Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 these were boxes filled with scrap to bring the vans upto weight, two types, shallow & deep, so check your references Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 The equivalent of the large steel plates on the ends of the LNER ones and the concrete in the same place on the BR built brakes. As mentioned above, two types. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 The attached images may be of some use to you, ignore the foot boards they are incorrect. I ahve included 2 general arrangements shots, a W-iron detail with horse hook and a detail of the brake gear at one end, showing bow girders, cranks and the pull rod tunnel between the two scrap iron boxes. Of note are the remains of L angle fastened to the scrap iron boxes, this makes me wonder if the footboards on this vehicles have been bracket off the scrap boxes at some point? Boris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 The 4mm Wagon Part 3 has a good section on modelling these by the way. The footboards should have hinged sections past the axleboxes. I don't think i've seen one of these with the footboards bracketed off the ballast boxes though those weld marks do suggest it. There is variation in the brake pull rods with the vee section braced outwards on some examples like that at the NRM. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/album/1718-lms-stanier-brake/page__display__detail a couple of detail shots. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 I don't think i've seen one of these with the footboards bracketed off the ballast boxes though those weld marks do suggest it. I'm only guessing that the footboards were bracketed that way because it seems coincidental that the weld marks are almost behind the footboard brackets, and this is repeated on both sides of the vehicles, there are one or two other oddities with this van, the only other thing that occurs to be is whether is has had the gauging boards fitted to the outside at some point for gauging lineside structures, bridges and tunnels? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsv1000r Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 I have three models from Hornby of the LMS 20T long wheelbase brake vans. All of which I plan to modify and paints and weather and that. But can I just ask what was the box under frames of a lot of them I initally though it was the vacuum equipment but I have seen grey one and some which appear to be unfitted with them. Thank you very much Sylvian there are many variations in these vans, what period are you modelling, do you wish to represent the original LMS builds or the two later BR built lots? neither of which were vacuum fitted, dia 503 being unfitted, whilst dia 505 were vacuum through piped only as built, but the equipment changed over the years, some even recieving air through pipes, so my advice would be to model from specific photograghs from your chosen period Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 so my advice would be to model from specific photograghs from your chosen period Of which there are many here, though maybe not of the appropriate period they do give an insight into design changes. I did an article on this model in the July '96 edition of BRM and coincidentally, was thinking of doing a brief blog item on them. LMS diagrams were D1919, D2036 and D2068; the deeper weightbox came in under D2068, numbers from 731192 upwards. D2036 covered the change from narrower duckets to the wider ones on the model, but it wasnt unknown for them to be swapped around on repairs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefrk Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 Hi, did you know that Lanarkshire Models & Supplies do a Track Cleaner kit to fit into the self same guards van and that includes the deep ballast box of the later vans. You don't have to have the cleaning roller in the van all the time but the frame which forms the box is fitted semi permanently, but why not leave the roller in to clean the track every time you run it. See photos and website. Hope that helps, Dave Franks. P.S. I also do the correct buffers for fitted, piped and unfitted vans. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefrk Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 Hi all, just had a look and I find I have quite a few packs of the buffers for LMS Stanier guards van as is being discussed here, so, between now and next Sunday midnight (21-08-11), if you order a Track Cleaner kit via the website or by mail order I'll throw in a packet of the correct buffers for free, yes free, that's £1.95 saved. What's more I'll even put a couple of scale coupling hooks with mounting plate in with the buffers. So, if you've been thinking about ordering one after reading the recent articles in the mags and the 'highly commended' result in Model Rail magazine's review of track cleaners, now is the time to get one and detail up the guards van at the same time. :rolleyes: All the best, Dave Franks. Also attending EXPO North in September Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvian Tennant Posted August 15, 2011 Author Share Posted August 15, 2011 Thanks guys. I'm generally modelling BR North Eastern Region. But I'm generally trying to be quite flexable with rolling stock. I have three of these brakes, one unfitted and two fitted all of which will be updated somewhere allong the l;ine in regards to stock requirements. Kind regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Dear all I have now scanned and posted my photographs of LMS design brake vans built for BR - they are at http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brlmsbrakevan Please note, none were "fitted", LMS vans were either equipped with a through pipe or non pipe. Through pipe wagons were also in freight stock red when new - but the pipe has the external steel pipe white and not red one. Despite LMS vans allegedly being uncomfortable to ride in, and unpopular (they were also quite low) they lasted a long time! Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
multiprinter Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Despite LMS vans allegedly being uncomfortable to ride in, and unpopular (they were also quite low) they lasted a long time! Paul Bartlett They weren't the greatest of riders but nothing to moan about.(Still better than a Pacer.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvian Tennant Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 Oh interesting! could I ask, if none were fitted then would they not be allowed on parcel workings? Or would the through pipe negate this? Amen to that multiprinter, terrible locomotives! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsv1000r Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 some were through piped though allowing the guard to apply the train brake Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvian Tennant Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 Ah okay Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I have now added an extra 60plus photographs of LMS (and predecessor) brake vans to my site. http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsbrakevan Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Oh interesting! could I ask, if none were fitted then would they not be allowed on parcel workings? Or would the through pipe negate this? They were XP so permitted to work in mail trains. But speed limits were progressively introduced for 4 and 6 wheel stock so they became less versatile. Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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