Advice on Web Authoring Software Wanted

[Simon G]

I am looking for some advice on what software people have used to create web pages and upload them onto websites. In a moment of madness, I volunteered to maintain the website for the Derwent Railway Society (the original DRS!), based in West Cumbria. The previous webmaster suggested I use Dreamweaver - then I saw how much it costs to get a version - over £300, which is far too steep.

 

My own PC has Microsoft Frontpage on it, but the hosting site (www.trainweb.org) does not recommend the use of Frontpage. Therefore, I am looking for a cheap (or free) package that I can use to update the site (www.trainweb.org/drs).

 

Any advice gratefully received.

 

Simon

[noiseboy72]

I use Serif Webplus X5. The older X2 version is available re-packaged as (I think) Focus software for less than £10 from PC world. Feel free to look at my site which is built with it and see if it suits you.

The later versions have quite good photo editing built in and seem to render well in most browsers. It is also WYSIWYG, so very easy to use.

[Kenton]

I use Bluefish - if you are conversant with the code required for page generation in html or php or asp or javascript (spit spit) then this is definitely the program to use. it has pop-up help for the languages and if you set up your own localhosting (say with Apache + PHP) then it can even display local client results in any of the usual browsers. It formats the results well is itself capable of add-ons and has long been a favourite among programmers.

 

Oh, and above all it is FREE ! (for non commercial use)

 

but if all you want is a FrontPage like web page generator - don't bother with it.

[Revolution Mike]

The cheapest way is to learn a bit of HTML and just use a text editor (eg Notepad or similar), this also has the benefit of producing the cleanest code, but it requires a bit of learning. If you get the hang of HTML then CSS is well worth learning (as it makes updating the design of a site much more manageable). Lots of useful tutorials on html at: http://www.w3schools.com/html/default.asp

 

If you prefer to try a WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get) then you might want to try something like Amaya - a free WYSIWYG editor: http://www.w3.org/Amaya/

 

The problem with WYSIWYG editors can be that the code they produce is not always compatible with all browsers.

 

HTH,

 

Mike

[Grovenor]

I have found Kompozer to do a reasonable job.

Keith

[buffalo]

The cheapest way is to learn a bit of HTML and just use a text editor (eg Notepad or similar), this also has the benefit of producing the cleanest code, but it requires a bit of learning. If you get the hang of HTML then CSS is well worth learning (as it makes updating the design of a site much more manageable). Lots of useful tutorials on html at: http://www.w3schools...tml/default.asp

Ah yes, the "real programmers'" approach and one that I heartily endorse When you've created your pages run them throught the W3 Validator system to check just how clean they are. If you still wonder why some of us still do it the "old fashioned" way, just try running a page created using any of the authoring programs through the validator. If you really want a shock, point the validator at an RMweb page, then ask yourself why folk are always having problems with browser X.

 

Nick

[beast66606]

I am looking for some advice on what software people have used to create web pages and upload them onto websites. In a moment of madness, I volunteered to maintain the website for the Derwent Railway Society (the original DRS!), based in West Cumbria. The previous webmaster suggested I use Dreamweaver - then I saw how much it costs to get a version - over £300, which is far too steep.

 

My own PC has Microsoft Frontpage on it, but the hosting site (www.trainweb.org) does not recommend the use of Frontpage. Therefore, I am looking for a cheap (or free) package that I can use to update the site (www.trainweb.org/drs).

 

Any advice gratefully received.

 

Simon

 

Dreamweaver 5.5 is "only" £230 from here http://www.evasoft.co.uk/adobe/186-adobe-dreamweaver-cs5-5.do

 

Your hosting site does not prevent you using FrontPage - but it does not allow FrontPage extensions, which are server side components and are not very secure - check your FrontPage, there is a setting which allows comparability to be set which prevents extensions being used, so you can safely build your website using it, it doesn't produce the slickest code in the world but it does a reasonable job - and if you own it, it's free.

[TheSignalEngineer]

Don't buy MR. SITE. I know a website it was tried on and it is a good example of WYPIWYG (What You Pay Is What You Get)

[Kickstart]

Hi

 

I would also say to use a text editor . Cleaner code and you also learn how things work in the background.

 

I use Notepad++ which is free and great. Includes syntax highlighting.

 

For uploading to web space I use either Core FTP (the lite version is free) for if using Firefox then FireFTP.

 

All the best

 

Keith

[Robert]

I was in a similar position to you a number of years ago - I took over a site and the previous webmistress had used Dreamweaver.

 

I baulked at the price and ended up trying a number of different web authoring packages. One of Dreamweavers biggest disadvantages is that it adds a tremendous amount of superfluous code, and it was quite a huge task to clean the code up to use another package. I ended up editing the code manually - but to be perfectly honest if the website is of any size then this isn't a long term solution. Sure, it's possible - but you will be spending a lot more time hacking code than you really need to.

 

I have now gone over to CMS Made Simple - it is a full content management system which runs server side. The advantage of this is that anyone can make changes to the code using a WYSIWYG editor. I do the overall technical administration of the site, and various other members are authorised to make changes to the various pages. The best thing about it is that it is free - although you do need a hosting package which makes PHP and a MySQL database available.

[Kenton]

</p> </p>Your hosting site does not prevent you using FrontPage - but it does not allow FrontPage extensions, which are server side components and are not very secure

</p>

Is this the case?I was under the impression that only host servers set up with MS IIS could allow optional FrontPage extensions.I didn't think that was possible on Linux based servers.I have 2 servers (1 Linux and 1 MS) FrontPage is only provided on the MS server and its is strongly discouraged for the reason you gave, the Linux server doesn't even give the option (though I can see that it may simply be blocked by the provider)

[Robert]

I was under the impression that only host servers set up with MS IIS could allow optional FrontPage extensions.

 

That's true - but there is nothing to stop FrontPage being used to produce the website. However, the extensions will not be available.

 

In my humble opinion, I'd avoid FrontPage like the plague - but then I'm a Unix man!

[Revolution Mike]

Is this the case?I was under the impression that only host servers set up with MS IIS could allow optional FrontPage extensions.I didn't think that was possible on Linux based servers.

 

There is definitely the facility to use FP extensions on a Linux box running Apache (whether you would want to is another matter!).

 

Incidentally FP was discontinued in 2006(?) and the last version of it was released in 2003, so I think it is a fair bet that the code it produces will be significantly out of date.

 

IIRC it has been replaced by MS Expression Web.

[beast66606]

Is this the case?I was under the impression that only host servers set up with MS IIS could allow optional FrontPage extensions.I didn't think that was possible on Linux based servers.I have 2 servers (1 Linux and 1 MS) FrontPage is only provided on the MS server and its is strongly discouraged for the reason you gave, the Linux server doesn't even give the option (though I can see that it may simply be blocked by the provider)

 

I don't think you read my post ....

 

I (to repeat) said that FrontPage EXTENSIONS are not supported (by the OPs provider), Frontpage can be configured to generate simple HTML (although not the most efficient in the world) and can therefore be used.

[Kenton]

>

 

I don't think you read my post ....

I did but the part I quoted read slightly different to the follow-up post.All I know is that with FrontPage Extensions turned off on my MS site (host) the page does not display correctly. Which is why I stopped using them ages ago.Just really seeking to further my knowledge to clarify the situation re Linux servers. Thought you might be able to answer.

[beast66606]

>I did but the part I quoted read slightly different to the follow-up post.All I know is that with FrontPage Extensions turned off on my MS site (host) the page does not display correctly. Which is why I stopped using them ages ago.Just really seeking to further my knowledge to clarify the situation re Linux servers. Thought you might be able to answer.

 

I'm still confused - my statement is also still true.

 

FrontPage is capable of generating code which does not require the extensions installing on the server, however if you have used FrontPage components then you will not have a working website without the extensions, if they are turned off at the start of the project there is no such risk - the Wirral Finescale website (link below) runs on a server which does not support FrontPage extensions and yet it is maintained by FrontPage ...

[Simon G]

Wow - what good stuff! Thanks as ever, guys.

 

In the medium/long term, I will probably go for the htm text editor route, such as Notepad++. In the past, I have programmed in Fortran, Basic, and briefly even Z80 machine code (remember Z80s?), so htm code shouldnt be too much of a challenge. However, in the short term, I will try WYSIWYG packages like Kompozer or Amaya just to get me going. I will certainly look at the htm Tutorials suggested by red death - winter is coming and learning the htm coding will help to pass those long dark evenings!

 

I have tried with Frontpage, without the extensions enabled (as discussed by beast66606), but still ran into problems. Out of interest, I ran the W3 Validator System on a couple of the existing web pages, and it showed them to be riddled with errors and warnings. I guess that I could continue to use Frontpage for the uploading to the website, even when using a different editor to generate the web pages.

 

As Frontpage was discontinued in 2006, it explains why it isnt bundled with Office 2010, like it used to be with Office 2003.

 

Cheers, Simon

[Kenton]

</p>

I'm still confused - my statement is also still true.</p>

</p>

where did I say it wasn't - just that I was seeking clarity.

explaining that using pages generated with FrontPage didn't work on my host server unless the extensions on that MS server were "switched on" and would not work at all on the Linux server. This is most likely down to the hosting company it seems than the actual ability for it to work.

 

Anyway it matters no more as I have long stopped using it, but still interesting that you can use code edited with FrontPage on a server with extensions turned off - evidently there are differences between different host providers.

[Grovenor]

I guess that I could continue to use Frontpage for the uploading to the website, even when using a different editor to generate the web pages.

Personally I did not do that even when I used front page, I find it much more reliable to upload pages using a simple ftp client such as Cute ftp, or even Internet explorer in ftp mode. Then nothing is hidden and you know you are copying your pages into the server folders just as you have them at home.

Regards

Keith

[Simon G]

Personally I did not do that even when I used front page, I find it much more reliable to upload pages using a simple ftp client such as Cute ftp, or even Internet explorer in ftp mode. Then nothing is hidden and you know you are copying your pages into the server folders just as you have them at home.

Regards

Keith

So you can use Internet Explorer to upload pages? I didnt realise that. Another thing to experiment with!

 

I couldnt resist starting to look at htm editing after my earlier post this evening. The W3 Schools site mentioned by red death is really good and clear and seems to make the whole thing quite easy to pick up and understand. I have been pasting their examples into a file in a Test Folder and learning by experimenting.

Cheers, Simon

[beast66606]

I have tried with Frontpage, without the extensions enabled (as discussed by beast66606), but still ran into problems

 

You've probably already used the components - look for the reports and check them out, iirc one is a compatibility report, as I said to Kenton www.wirralfinescale.com uses FP2003 as it's development tool and FrontPage extensions are not enabled on the host.

 

As Frontpage was discontinued in 2006, it explains why it isnt bundled with Office 2010, like it used to be with Office 2003.

 

It's modern equivalent is called Expression Web - currently at V4.

 

hth

[beast66606]

Personally I did not do that even when I used front page, I find it much more reliable to upload pages using a simple ftp client such as Cute ftp, or even Internet explorer in ftp mode. Then nothing is hidden and you know you are copying your pages into the server folders just as you have them at home.

Regards

Keith

 

Frontpage does a very good job at managing websites - ensuring those hidden files in deep folders are also copied over, a lot easier than manual approaches such as cute or Ipswich or ....

[beast66606]

So you can use Internet Explorer to upload pages? I didnt realise that. Another thing to experiment with!

 

put ftp://ftp.thesite.com in the address bar

 

I couldnt resist starting to look at htm editing after my earlier post this evening. The W3 Schools site mentioned by red death is really good and clear and seems to make the whole thing quite easy to pick up and understand. I have been pasting their examples into a file in a Test Folder and learning by experimenting.

 

Really depends how long you want to spend on the site, FP would do it in minutes ... (as would other tools)

[Robert]

briefly even Z80 machine code (remember Z80s?),

 

Sure do! I still do a bit of Z80 programming

 

It's an incredibly versatile processor, and very cheap into the bargain. Yes, they are still made!

 

so htm code shouldnt be too much of a challenge. However, in the short term, I will try WYSIWYG packages like Kompozer or Amaya just to get me going.

 

Do be honest, if you find a suitable WYSIWYG editor, then I would stick with it. Although the code won't be beyond you, the advantage of using an editor is that it cuts down on the repetitive coding. You can always edit the code later to tidy it up a bit - but I'd leave the bulk of the donkey work to an editor. Believe me, hacking html gets pretty boring, pretty quickly!

[Revolution Mike]

Hi Simon

 

Glad you are getting on OK with html. If you are used to programming then html should be no problem for you.

 

If you have more than a couple of pages I would strongly recommend learning about CSS as well - basically instead of all the formatting information being specific to a page you can have one (or more) Cascading Style Sheet that will control the formatting for the whole site. You reference the CSS file in the header and the main text of the page will have styles applied where necessary, but all the formatting info will be in the CSS. If you want to change format of say a header or a paragraph style then you edit the CSS and it will automatically be applied across the whole site (rather than having to edit the formatting on each individual page).

 

More detail here: http://www.w3schools.com/css/

 

Cheers, Mike

 

PS after that PHP includes for headers and footers - again makes site management much simpler!