Cautionary Tale - Netbooks

[S.A.C Martin]

A few months back we found my better half had got herself onto a PGCE course - we were all thrilled and delighted, however it became clear that her current laptop, a five year old Sony Vaio, wasn't going to cut the mustard as it was having far too many problems.

 

We shopped around for a bit and came across a HP netbook - this very one in fact - which fitted the bill. With an external hard drive and most programs provided across the web for her, a disc drive was not necessary and so we plumped for this cheap netbook.

 

First three weeks - no problems.

 

Then, we had a problem with the Caps Lock button last week. It would randomly and repeatedly turn itself on and off. This made it difficult for Charlie to log onto her various teaching forums and sites, and made taking online tests an impossibility.

 

Everything else seemed fine, which is part and parcel of the frustration with the machine in question.

 

I rang the retailer - Play.com - who suggested checking with the manufacturer first and doing software updates first, otherwise, come back to them and if it was still within warranty, they would offer us a refund or a replacement.

 

Fair enough, so I got onto the manufacturer's forums and got in touch with one of their technical advisors. Had we updated the bios? No, so I did them all, one by one, following the instructions to the letter. Had I updated the keyboard's driver? No, so I did that too.

 

We tried system recovery, system restore, a hard reset and even resorted to adding a scancode map using the regedit.exe on the computer to remap the caps lock button and hopefully disable it permanently. Nothing worked.

 

I was then advised to get in touch with their technical support, which I did so dutifully over an 0844 number (!) yesterday.

 

Half an hour spent waiting on the phone and I got through to someone who then proceeded to try and take me through the same steps I had previously taken. I explained politely that I had already tried all of the above. I was then met with a frankly stroppy response giving me a reference number to ring back tomorrow when they had more time before closing.

 

So this afternoon, tried once more. Gave reference number. Reference number not found. However they had taken my email address and postcode, so on matching that the operator found my "case". I was then passed over to another member of the technical support team, who proceeded to try and take me through the same exact steps for a third time. I patiently explained that this had already been tried several times.

 

I also pointed out that I had been on the phone to said manufacturer for a good two hours over two days on an 0844 number, which is the only way to get through to their technical support - given we had as yet no fix for our netbook - needed urgently for tomorrow for the start of said PGCE course - would they then refund the cost of these phone calls? I was told to wait for a member of the complaints team. Patience was at an all time low, but I held on. Some fix for this must be available.

 

I was met with a woman operator who was equally unhelpful and also unsympathetic as to the prolonged use of an 0844 number. Well over three hours by this point, to have relayed the same information (three times) and to still have not solved the problem of the netbook. I asked if it was possible to send it in for repair. The best return date for the netbook they could give me was 40 days time. I took the email address of her department and asked her to write down and record my complaint regarding the quality of their technical support.

 

So I rang back Play.com this evening. Unfortunately the 30 day period for returning goods was up by this morning, so I was not holding my breath. Not only did they offer a replacement immediately (on return of the defective one), they added that should the replacement prove defective they will send us a replacement of a higher spec at no extra cost. The offer of a refund was also still there: they had saved my details from the previous inquiry and had no problem with the situation.

 

So the netbook is packed up awaiting dispatch tomorrow. However, the tale does not end there. Curious as to the problem with the caps lock button, I did what I should have done previously, and looked further afield for reviews of other products by this manufacturer and any problems they might be having.

 

I was astounded to find no less than forty cases on their own forums of the Caps Lock button behaving in this way, and on the net there are threads, questions and reviews all covering the same problem across their entire range of products, from as far back as 2006!

 

In short, I should have read more reviews and perhaps we should have paid out for a more expensive Apple based product - in the three years I have owned my Macbook I have never had any problems similar to those I have endured on Windows based machines.

 

I am certain there are good PCs out there, most assuredly, and this is not an excuse to state one is better than the other - but the level of stress and anxiety at what was purportedly a three week old machine developing a fault in its keyboard so early in its life is not acceptable in any shape or form, given the money spent on it and its absolutely necessity in the development of a young English teacher!

 

I am sending the defective unit back tomorrow, and we will have a replacement unit - should this fail in a similar way I will ask for a refund and will find some money from somewhere for Charlie to get a Macbook instead, damning the cost for the want of peace of mind in terms of reliability.

[spamcan61]

The HP DV9000 is well known for its major problems with blank displays/graphics chip problems, in the States they're fixed for free, but not in the UK.

 

A friend's HP netbook is so dog slow it's almost unusable, even after I'd spent two hours removing crap form it.

 

In general I find the HP website much less helpful than Acer's or Dell's when it come to support documentation and software.

 

Apple are no paragon of reliability either; plenty of folks on the web with Apple laptops that don't work unless they physically clamp the shell together, due to excess heat unsoldering chips on the motherboard IIRC.

 

It really does come down to researching a particular machine before purchase.

 

EDit: FWIW a fairly recent reliability survey here, Apple top - HP bottom, no surprise there!

 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/211402/reliability_and_service_laptops.html

[Guest Max Stafford]

I've been using this Dell Inspiron Mini for eighteen months now and it's been (touch wood!) utterly reliable. Can't fault it Simon, I really can't!

 

Dave.

[Tony_S]

My son and I both have Samsung NC10 netbooks. My son's one is over two years old has been to sixth form college, a year at university, travelled across Germany and is currently accompanying him in Vietnam. It has been dropped and sat on and the case of his is no longer as shiny as mine but it works perfectly. They have a nice keyboard and screen. I hope if either of us need a new one the model that has superseded the NC10 is as good.

Tony

[trisonic]

I've had one problem with one Apple computer. I rang Apple. The next morning I received a box precisely fitting my lap top. I called a number and a guy told me it would be picked within an hour. Within four days I had it back fixed.

 

Best, Pete.

[TheSignalEngineer]

I've been using this Dell Inspiron Mini for eighteen months now and it's been (touch wood!) utterly reliable. Can't fault it Simon, I really can't!

 

Dave.

I "inherited" a 12-month old Dell laptop from my Project Director when working on West Coast modernisation schemes. Not much bigger than a Netbook, but built like the proverbial brick outbuilding. It was dropped from a train onto Stockport platform and hit the ballast at Nuneaton, but was still functioning when I passed it on to my successor four years later.

[PhilH]

I now treat all things computer as disposable items - my last one (an HP Celerion laptop) lasted precisely 15 months. From now on I will just buy cheap (sub £250), it's surprising what you get for your money, this current one is better spec'd than the one I've just binned.

 

I have an external 1tb hard drive to back up the important stuff (it's also storage for my TV media player) so I figure that instead of paying a lot for a Mac or something which will be old hat fairly quickly I can upgrade three times for the same price. This obviously also means I will benefit from the technology upgrades which come thick and fast on these things.

[Oldddudders]

My Acer desktop, now 28 months old, has a distinct disaffinity for booting up, and crashes at any stage of doing so. For the last few weeks, if I could get it booted for 10 minures, it was ok for the rest of the day - assuming I didn't let it go into hibernation, which I avoided by letting it play music all day. Now it has become impossible to keep running for more than an hour, so another is en route from Amazon UK. Given the HP news & views above, I just wish it wasn't one of theirs...... I'm currently using an older Acer, so using IE8 on XP, which is dog slow. BTW it is much cheaper to import from Amazon UK - even if the product actually gets delivered from Germany, as has been known - than to buy locally, even leaving aside the Azerty keyboard I wouldn't want. Trying to speak the language is one thing - re-orientating my limited keyboard skills is a step too far!

[Ian J.]

I think the obvious lesson here is that no technology is perfect, and no company that supplies said technology is perfect. However, in the case of Apple I can only hope that wherever someone is in the world the amount extra they pay should entitle them to decent and quick 'no quibble' support.

 

As for non-Apple products, and in particular PCs, I generally build my own as it means I can pick and choose components and if anything fails I know what to do to fix or replace. But where I have bought a complete PC off-the-shelf, I've stuck with Acer on a laptop (from 2006 and still going well, thanks to a fresh install of Windows 7) and a couple of net-tops and haven't had any issues with them. But I've heard horror stories of poor support from all manufacturers and don't trust any of them.

[shortliner]

I hate to rain on parades, but isn't it HP that have just dumped(about a fortnight ago) all their hardware/netbooks/notebooks/laptops because it is costing them so much in repairs?

[Oldddudders]

I hate to rain on parades, but isn't it HP that have just dumped(about a fortnight ago) all their hardware/netbooks/notebooks/laptops because it is costing them so much in repairs?

Gee - thanks Jack! You really know how to make a guy feel good! And I'm still waiting for my new HP PC to arrive!

[Guest dilbert]

I hate to rain on parades, but isn't it HP that have just dumped(about a fortnight ago) all their hardware/netbooks/notebooks/laptops because it is costing them so much in repairs?

Er, no....

[Raffles]

I'm still wondering what's wrong with the five year old Sony Laptop?

[spamcan61]

I'm still wondering what's wrong with the five year old Sony Laptop?

 

Dunno, I'm typing this on a six year old Dell laptop (consumer, not business grade); been fine other than the PSU for the display backlight keeling over about 6 months ago, fixed with an OEM part for under a tenner in about 20 mins. with a jeweller's screwdriver.

 

The main issue with laptops is that the majority of the components are on the motherboard, so any fault on there is seldom cost effective to fix. Virtually all consumer desktops are made from generic components which can be swapped about or replaced easily (by and large) so it isn't difficult to keep them going more or less forever.

[Mike Bellamy]

I hate to rain on parades, but isn't it HP that have just dumped(about a fortnight ago) all their hardware/netbooks/notebooks/laptops because it is costing them so much in repairs?

Er, no....

Er, Yes

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-14584428 and also http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-14587426

 

Mike

[Guest dilbert]

Er, Yes

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-14584428 and also http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-14587426

 

Mike

Er, Yes

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-14584428 and also http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-14587426

 

Mike

Shortliner mentions that the reason for dumping is down to the fact they cost too much to repair - which is not correct... If you read the reports, HP have still yet to decide what they are going to do with their PC business, the consumer market et al ... dilbert

[5 C]

I'm writing this response on an HP DV9000 which has suffered the well known graphics chip issue and an equally well known (it seems) issue with the number lock button similar to the Caps Lock problem described by the OP.

 

A couple of years ago at work we switched from Dell to HP as our hardware provider. The IT guys were less than impressed with the technical support they received from HP compared to Dell.

 

I'm not sure what I'll buy next, but even prior to HP's announcement, I'd already decided it wasn't going to be one of their products.

 

Andy

[S.A.C Martin]

I'm still wondering what's wrong with the five year old Sony Laptop?

 

It was fine for four years, but has had severe problems saving files, booting up, and processing or using programs such as Firefox 9 and higher in the last year. When a laptop finds starting internet browsers a chore (never mind surfing the net), it's a sign that it's struggling! That said, having cleaned the rubbish off it about a week ago, and done a few tidy ups (like disabling its own ill functioning caps lock and number lock keys), it's running marginally faster but not really reliably enough for day to day use. It still switches itself off when saving a word document too!

[Ian J.]

 

It was fine for four years, but has had severe problems saving files, booting up, and processing or using programs such as Firefox 9 and higher in the last year. When a laptop finds starting internet browsers a chore (never mind surfing the net), it's a sign that it's struggling! That said, having cleaned the rubbish off it about a week ago, and done a few tidy ups (like disabling its own ill functioning caps lock and number lock keys), it's running marginally faster but not really reliably enough for day to day use. It still switches itself off when saving a word document too!

Sounds like the HDD is in trouble. One option I'd advise considering is getting a new one for it, and seeing if Windows 7 with a fresh install improves matters.

[S.A.C Martin]

Sounds like the HDD is in trouble. I'd advise getting a new one for it, and seeing if Windows 7 with a fresh install improves matters.

 

That's a very good point, I hadn't considered the HDD.

 

I have tried Windows 7, starter version and the full version, it didn't want to play ball and was severely unstable. Currently operating XP again for the moment. I'll have a look at the costs of a new HDD before making a decision on it. It's been quite fun as a project to learn more about laptops generally, but I don't want to spend too much on it.

[spamcan61]

This Vaio specific test utility looks fairly useful:-

 

http://www.kb.sony.com/selfservice/viewContent.do?externalId=C1013171&sliceId=1&mdl=VPCF115FM

[spamcan61]

New HDD would be around 40 - 45 quid if it is that at fault.

[Ian J.]

 

That's a very good point, I hadn't considered the HDD.

 

I have tried Windows 7, starter version and the full version, it didn't want to play ball and was severely unstable. Currently operating XP again for the moment. I'll have a look at the costs of a new HDD before making a decision on it. It's been quite fun as a project to learn more about laptops generally, but I don't want to spend too much on it.

For one insane moment I actually considered putting an SSD into my five year old Acer, but the costs of an IDE interface version (as against the now far more common SATA interface) were actually more than a new laptop. With HDDs you shouldn't have that issue, a decent sized SATA interface 2.5 inch HDD (around 500GB) should be between £40 - £50 depending where you look (not the high street shops, there it'll be anything up to twice that!).

 

The Windows 7 instability is probably due to the HDD as well, though I have to add caution that I'm only suggesting the HDD is the issue from the sound of what you describe. It's never impossible that another component could be at fault and so I can't guarantee that a new HDD would fix things.