A "Southern" Minories

[trisonic]

That's truly rich coming from an Essex Boy! Just because you had breakfast with Jimi Hendrix etc. etc.

 

I do not forget the macho men from other Regions of BR who called it the tram-track, but then went pale at the thought of all those junctions, all those trains, when asked to become responsible for parts of Southern. Probably paled at the thought of the flying shoes (see other thread).

 

It was, is, and probably always will be a fine prototype - as is C J Freezer's design. I just wish he hadn't called it Minories, which is the wrong side of the river! It's actually based on part of Liverpool Street station is it not because of the fast turnarounds started during the "Jazz" service? I know there was a Minories on the LT&S route however.

 

However the Southern did copy the NLL (or NLR) - Ho, Ho.

 

Best, Pete.

 

(Who really does love the Southern 'cos it took me on holiday throughout the early '60's............nearly forgot! I bought my second guitar from BELLS of Surbiton and enjoyed the ride along the tree lined "tunnel")

[Matloughe]

The answer to your problems is obviously to get rid of all the crappy Southern stock and invest in a decent railway company! :yahoo_mini:

 

Ian secretly knows this............

 

Best, Pete (rushing for tin hat)

 

This really made my chuckle, guessing you aren't a Southern Fan Trisonic?

As a devotee of all things southern I can only quote from SEMG's Cardinal my own views on the rail network:

To be safe, mention not, railways to the North or Northwest or Northeast and above all the railway whose stuff was chocolate and cream. This last is an abomination, a curse, a devilish work.

 

I have had more then a passing interest in all things southern for many years, one of my memories was of waving to trains pulling out of Clapham Junction from the bridge over Battersea Rise, and travelling to courses for Cadets when I was much older on the old CIG's & VEP's - I very much miss these trains - back on topic now away from nostalgia. Thank you for your suggestion Peter I am certainly going to look into it also I am shopping around for the actual points to see if I can get any cheaper, £8 is the cheapest I have seen so far - which is remarkable value in itself.

 

Southernboy - thank you for your kinds words I have seen Frankland and I am honestly amazed at such detail your layout has - its certainly giving me food for thought, I must apologise as I fear my own work will not be such a wondrous thing. I wholeheartedly agree with your statement Ian! Long live the Southern Region!

Two of the three locomotives are now on my disposal list I had only got them out to ensure they still ran prior to sale some good running made me think twice but alas it was not to be. I shall certainly have a look as one of the trio (best runner) will be retained, thank you Simon.

 

Cheers,

~ Gary

[trisonic]

Nah! I'm not really parochial, though I do "love" the old GER mainlines out of London's Liverpool Street - lots of firsts there but which is generally under appreciated. Me and Ian enjoy winding each other up though; it's a form of affection..........

 

Best, Pete.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Gary,

This is what I was thinking.....

 

Regards,

Peter

[trisonic]

Alternatively it could be a terminus of the NLL (instead of LT). Double Minories!

 

Best, Pete.

[Oldddudders]

Going a bit further OT. Anent the flying shoes, they are a modern invention, as the other thread notes, by the way. The classic Southern Railway/Region EMU had a hefty polished wooden shoebeam, to which the shoe "slipper" was firmly attached. Obviously there were occasions when some irregularity in the conductor rail, or a foreign body lying on it, caused damage to this, and therefore the toolkit in the guard's brake included a saw - for sawing through the shoebeam. I recall Ron Baldry, SM at Hither Green, saying he was down in the 6' way in the slow line platforms, sawing through just such a hard plank on a damaged train, when some "ornament" - a senior manager - appeared and wanted to be treated as his grade deserved. Suitable advice "Sir!" was offered! In 5 years in the Control, I recall very few issues involving shoegear. Later builds of EMU had a cantilever design, which tended to lift and skate over items on the con rail - including ice which the older design had summarily removed. Sometimes progress takes a devious route - a bit like my contributions to this thread....

[autocoach]

Check out http://www.semgonline.com/model/ntender.html for modifications to the Bachmann SR N Class tender to improve running. Also there is an article somewhere about modifying the drawbar with a wire loop. I modified my current N this way and have had no problems backing through points. A new one is in the mail from Signal Box and I will have to see if that needs similar modifications.

[Matloughe]

Good Morning,

 

I've finally got my hands on the two scenic boards this evening and my old board has been consigned to the scrapyard in the sky. Taking onboard the comments above I tried my original plan but when it had been stretched there was something not quite right about it. So instead I have plumped for a slightly different plan - however I am still umming and erring over it. Expanding upon what you suggested Peter I have retained a 4-track 'Southern' Mainline terminus (with all platforms being able to arrive & depart this time, and added a 2-track LT Terminus alongside; on with the photos!

 

General overview; the Mainline side of the station is at the back of the boards - closer to the operator panel as there is a need to detach and shunt stock between platforms so requiring closer supervison of the coupling & decoupling procedure.

 

Birds eye view - the station is capable of taking a tender engine & three coaches or alternatively up to a four-coach Mark I Based unit, EPB, CEP, CIG, VEP etc. The size is constrained by the 4 ' long fiddleyard.

 

View from the exit to the layout, a 'kickback' siding is notionally provided for a pilot locomotive. Between the pilot siding and end of scenic section a signalbox will be provided - I am thinking a 'Southern' Glass house type. On the left will be the LT connection to the rest of the network and a connection to the mainline for transfer - I am also thinking perhaps two sidings if I can squeeze them in joint Mainline/LT usage carriage sidings etc.

 

Another concourse view from a slightly different angle. The LT Brakevan denoting the London Transport Island platform.

 

What do you guys think? I am not sure myself, I like the plan it needs more tweaking (and track) but I don't want it to be a 'massive' project that never gets finished. I am considering the LT Island being shorter then the mainline platforms long enough to fit a 4-Car LT surface stock train - this would give some more flexibility at the front of the layout - perhaps altering the connection between the two companies & siding layout. Another problem I fear is that the layout would become dull with trains simply shuttling in and out - especially when I get my hands on some multiple units which is what this sort of station handles. I can spice things up by adding a mail van on the mainline, or a transfer freight onto LT tracks but essentially it is two termini side-by-side. I drew some inspiration from Ealing Broadway especially with the idea of an LT Island platform.

 

I leave it open for your perusal I am of to bed to mull things over get some sleep before the expected monsoon hits North Devon.

 

Cheers,

~ Gary

[Matloughe]

Good Afternoon,

 

After some different plans, alterations etc. I think I have settled on the plan for my layout. It'll be a mix of Mainline & Underground and based on Minories for the BR side. The LT Side takes its influence from Ealing Broadway (Central Line) platforms. I have decided that they layout will be DCC Operated and have a mix of Peco Streamline (Short Radius) points and flexitrack - all in all an expensive project from start to finish.

 

The London Transport Side of the layout will be the first to be completed while for the moment the mainline side will stay in Hornby Settrack temporarily pinned down until replacement track can be bought.

 

View from the station concourse, showing a A1x Terrier with a Bullied Set, Mark I TSO and a LT G Stock 'Acton Shuttle' Car. Note the stopping mark for the Bullied Set - this is the 'normal' clearing point to run around stock conventionally and allows 3-coach trains.

 

Comparison of Mark I Carriage end an a LT G Stock Motor Car

 

Overviews of the station approaches.

 

Mainline entrance from the fiddleyard, left track is a siding for stock storage & LT Transfer trains, and the right-hand pair are the up & down lines respectively. The location of the Hornby Controller is about where a Southern 'Glasshouse/Odeon' signalbox will be based on Richmond signalbox.

 

LT side has a conventional two-track approach with a siding accessible off of one platform - notionally for empty stock, the LT Platforms can accept 5-Car trains because of the shorter cars and idea notionally to add some interest is the division of a train and stabling of stock forming a 2 & 3-Car set - the connection between LT & the mainline can be seen in the distance as well - some alterations might occur as I am not completely happy with this connection - but am out of points and the curved platform approaches straddle the join between boards.

 

The good thing about such a layout is I can in theory operate it in anytime period (to some significant extent) as LT Corporate image changed little between 1933 & 1965 with red trains still being the 'norm' until 1959 but it took until the 1970's to eliminate red painted stock on the Underground - with the mainline setting the 'date' this allows Southern Railway & LT Stock rubbing shoulders or even earlier Southern Railway and Metropolitan / Metropolitan District or conversely later with BR Blue & Blue & Grey (NSE?) matching Silver LT Stock. There are still a few bugs to iron out relating to the track-work but its coming along.

 

Cheers,

~ Gary

 

Cheers,

~ Gary

[Flying Pig]

In relaying the Southern side, you've lost the characteristic and attractive Minories throat, which is slightly more compact (by one standard straight!) than what you have now. I've sketched it on your photo below in case you want to follow the well worn path.

 

 

With Steamline track, an even more compact formation is possible by substituting a single slip for two of the points.

 

[Donw]

The old SR station at Reading was most interesting. Cannot remember how the points fed the platforms. But it had the mix of electrics and steam hauled stock. I think the DEMUs came in at the close but I by the time I used them regulalry they were on the GWR station. No LT electrics though.

Don

[Oldddudders]

I adore the ghostly South Acton Shuttle car! Leave it in that state! I didn't quite get to see that service running, sadly, but you can still see remnants of the spur etc at South Acton & near Bollo Lane Xing.

[Matloughe]

I'd like to say thank you to everyone who has offered constructive advice & criticisms here its been received. The plan has changed slightly again from above, the 'Mainline Side' of the station is at the front and is a typical Minories 3-Platform layout with a pilot loco siding and a kick-back siding off of the third (frontmost) platform that will eventually lead onto my fiddleyard board for me to indulge in a little shunting, I am imagining a small 'Inglenook' style freight depot handling domestic goods & mail perhaps. The 'Underground Side' is at the back and is two platforms with access crossovers leading to the fiddleyard. It is assumed there is a connection between the mainline and underground off scene somewhere as the odd LT Pannier might visit the mainline yard with some stock - just like at Kensington Olympia.

 

The station will be slightly ambiguous as to its location the LT Tracks obviously will be electrified and the Mainline side will have 3rd Rail electrification to allow EPB's to shuttle to & fro, plus the odd CEP on a boat train - maybe a VEP or a CIG as well? Who knows, I am also looking at buying a Class 501 Kit so North London Line trains will be represented. The mainline side will be DCC and I hope to chip & add sound to some EMU's as & when I can get them (currently in the midst of a cash crisis).

 

Thank you Ian the shuttle (or 'Ginny' as she has been named) is a fantastic kit from Radley Models - It was due to be under-coated the weekend but the aforementioned cashflow problems mean I couldn't buy any paint. I still need to add some pick-ups on the trailing bogie as the "spud" can get gapped on my points. Ah well these things happen? Always the weekend after. Next model on the list most likely will be F Stock - I love the flying brick look of those trains, or perhaps a Metropolitan 1913 Saloon Stock? Haven't decided, perhaps I should do a vote when Ginny is complete?

 

Cheers,

~ Gary

[trisonic]

Good progress on the plans. I do like Flying Pig's suggestion too.

 

Best, Pete.

[Oldddudders]

I'd vote for the F Stock. Those elliptical windows make them popular. Some years ago I was at Brighton Modelworld, and had bumped into a colleague, who was part of the operating team on a layout. They had an Underground line and it included a very smart F stock train, which I complimented. My friend beamed - "I built that!"

[Matloughe]

My Main reasoning is I thought the layout of my previous plans was too complex - trying to squeeze everything into a small space especially using setrack geometry trackwork (for the moment) just wasn't going to work.

 

This is the state of play this evening:

The station throat, Mainline tracks and nearest and LT the further away. Bottom track will lead to the small goods yard on the fiddle-yard board. Station pilot is in the middle between the separate lines.

 

Platforms - the length will terminate at the 'resin' one appropriated for the task this is long enough for four coaches and a fair sized tank engine a 2MT or suchlike so will easily accommodate a EPB or a CEP.

 

The LT side of the station could originally have been 'mainline' owned and latterly transferred during the new works programme in the 1930's I was thinking a little of the terminating platforms at Richmond when laying this out. If there are any more suggestions - I am, as always happy to hear them. The F Stock does look good - plus it would use the same paint as what is needed for the Acton Shuttle unit. Just a formation to work out.

 

Cheers,

~ Gary