Tim Hale Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Hi, A fairly recent thread featured some excellent weathered PO rtr wagons, like many transient threads, I cannot find it. May I ask for assistance to find the thread as I have a few grouping rtr wagons which need updating to BR livery but retaining vestiges of their original livery and I am not quite sure how this might be best achieved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Does this help? http://bmrcm.org/private-owner-wagons-post-nationalisation Some useful books which touch on the subject are: The 4mm Coal Wagon by John Hayes 4mm Wagons (3 Vols) by Geoff Kent both published by Wild Swan. My weathering is probably not up to the standard you saw in the missing thread but I think it gives you the idea. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I rather like those John. A common mistake to try to avoid is choosing any Bachmann livery and sticking a P number on it. Many of the liveries Bachmann have done can be for collieries and other industries that have closed by 1918 for example and would never have lasted on a wagon to get a P number on them! The two books mentioned have many great photos to copy as well as the tips, you want Geoff Kent's vol 1 only for mineral wagons though volume 3 does have a bit on painting and coal loads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I rather like those John. A common mistake to try to avoid is choosing any Bachmann livery and sticking a P number on it. Many of the liveries Bachmann have done can be for collieries and other industries that have closed by 1918 for example and would never have lasted on a wagon to get a P number on them! The two books mentioned have many great photos to copy as well as the tips, you want Geoff Kent's vol 1 only for mineral wagons though volume 3 does have a bit on painting and coal loads. Thanks Craig, I try to move things forward and preach to the multitudes (who generally take no notice). None of us have encyclopedic knowledge so inevitably mistakes will be made. The numbers I chose are random - I have no idea what they would actually be. However, I would like to see more folk have a go. Even a light coat of grime on a wagon moves it from being a toy to a model. Both sets of books are worth having - as are most Wild Swan modelling books. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Thanks Craig, I try to move things forward and preach to the multitudes (who generally take no notice). None of us have encyclopedic knowledge so inevitably mistakes will be made. The numbers I chose are random - I have no idea what they would actually be. However, I would like to see more folk have a go. Even a light coat of grime on a wagon moves it from being a toy to a model. Both sets of books are worth having - as are most Wild Swan modelling books. John Yes I tend to only copy examples in pictures to avoid choosing to guess one that probably isn't right. It would indeed be expensive to buy all of the Bill Hudson PO Wagon books though to try and learn about each company! I agree with your point about taking off the factory clean look to be a great start. I also agree having all the Wild Swan range is worthwhile though targeting is needed if there are financial constraints. Second, the concept of Privately Owned wagons had gone by the board in 1939, so there was no need to maintain their identity. Just picked up on this from your link though. Not really true as the war office intended on giving the wagons back to their original owners throughout the war and owners details did sometimes get painted smaller in the bottom left of the wagon when the main livery became illegible. Obviously when it was realised there was going to be a BR formed things changed (and owners got annoyed). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Hale Posted October 14, 2011 Author Share Posted October 14, 2011 Thanks guys but I really wanted to find the thread mentioned in the OP. Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I think owners were pretty annoyed when the Government took their wagons into common use in 1939, although I imagine some saw it as benefiting the war effort. I believe I did mention that there was an intention to return the wagons to their owners after the war. I suppose I was speculating a bit, but I couldn't see anyone putting much effort into maintaining the wagon identity with all that was going on - your titbit adds to my knowledge - worth getting out of bed today. For the purposes of our modelling, I think we agree that the original identity would be pretty badly obscured after nationalisation. In fact my period is early 1960s so the wagons pictured are probably anomalies. John Thanks guys but I really wanted to find the thread mentioned in the OP. Tim Well, Tim, you might have known we'd go off on a tangent - seems to happen all the time. Cheers, John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Hale Posted October 14, 2011 Author Share Posted October 14, 2011 Well, Tim, you might have known we'd go off on a tangent - seems to happen all the time. Cheers, John That is OK, if it is alright with you, I will start another thread and let you get on with your private conversation. Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mod6 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Many topics on RMweb 'evolve' away from the OP. If they do a polite request to stay on topic is all that is needed. Please don't just start a new topic. The new one has been closed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Dunno if its the right one but I found this that i'd missed before and thought was superb http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/826/entry-7079-a-start-on-track-laying-and-a-bit-of-weathering/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 One work I have not seen referred to yet is the Cheona book, 'British Railway Private-Owner Wagons- Opens and Hoppers'; Number 9 in their 'Railways in Profile' series. This has ten pages of photos of private-owner minerals in BR days; I have put the photo dates in brackets, where shown). Liveries include:- Bolsover (1950s) Letchworth Electricity Works (1950s) Instone (1950s) Carlton (1950s) Clay Cross (not taken into BR stock)- May 1953 Suncole (with coke raves)- (late 1950s) Manners (1950s) Swansea Navigation (mid 1950s) Shelton Iron and Steel (no traces of original livery, but a nice shot in 'weathered wood' livery (June 1959) Fife Coal Company (showing the practice of painting all the owner's details in one corner) (August 1948) Oxcroft Colliery (as above) (May 1949) There are then three shots of wagons not taken into 'Pool', and thus retaining PO status:- Murgatroyd's Salt (1960) BQC Granoplast (1957) Pilkington Brothers (1964) The 1st book in the same series has some further shots; Parkhouse Collieries (5th Sept, 1953) Sutton Heath Collieries (26th August, 1954) I hope these are of some use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Dunno if its the right one but I found this that i'd missed before and thought was superb http://www.rmweb.co....-of-weathering/ Thanks Craig, I'd not either. Worthy of a wider audience, and possibly even the one the OP wants? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Hale Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 Thanks to all those who replied - the thread from AJ427 is very good as is the gallery from Bangor Lad. I have a couple of grouping rtr wagons that need updating to BR but rather than remove all the grouping livery and lettering, I want the wagons to show some of their very worn and faded original livery and the two examples from AJ427 and Bangor Lad provide lots of inspiration. Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterR Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Hi, Martyn Welches book 'The Art of Weathering' published by Wild Swan has details of how he weathered a Vauxhall coal wagons to a BR condition. It is still listed at Waterstones bookshop at £14.95, or try Wild Swan themselves. It is a good book for weathering all sorts of vehicles and buildings. . Yours Peter R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Hale Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 Hi, Martyn Welches book 'The Art of Weathering' published by Wild Swan has details of how he weathered a Vauxhall coal wagons to a BR condition. It is still listed at Waterstones bookshop at £14.95, or try Wild Swan themselves. It is a good book for weathering all sorts of vehicles and buildings. . Yours Peter R Hi, I own this publication and find it less than inspirational however many modellers find it adequate. Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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