Uk_Steve Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Hi welcome to my weathering and graffiti page this is my latest weathering effort on a grey and blue 2EPB Bachmann instead of using airbrushes or powders my methord is to simply use Posca Paint Pens with cotton buds with some very light water mixed added after paint has been applied to the train i have used brown and black for the weathering Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uk_Steve Posted October 16, 2011 Author Share Posted October 16, 2011 info edited due to new pictures below Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I have to be honest: the weathering doesn't work for me, at all. The colour, nor the way it has been put on are realistic at any level. Weathering is a buildup of various different coloured gunks, not just one flat colour applied with a brush. The best way to apply weathering is to either use weathering powders, carefully brushed on, or to use an airbrush with the various enamels and acrylics out there for the job. Always work from a photograph for the best results is one piece of advice which is bandied around on RMweb and I am in complete agreement with. There are plenty of people with more experience and expertise than I to give advice on how best to go about weathering these particular models, but what I can say is that you should look around RMweb to see what everyone else who also models in your era/locale is doing with their similar models. The graffiti in the last photograph, on the other hand, is quite convincing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I tend to agree with the above, weathering really should be copied from the real thing, also colours tend be in the same tonal range, have a look at the real thing and photos and see how weathering works, roofs tend to be a uniform matt grey black colour without streaking . I would have thought with that amout of graffiti the unit would have been pulled out of service. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddys-blues Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Hi Steve, what process did you use to get your graffiti lettering ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uk_Steve Posted October 16, 2011 Author Share Posted October 16, 2011 Thanks Simon and Dave looks like i was living in my own world here by the sounds of things i like your honesty and now i will go and look at the tips and real photos in due course I was thinking it was the best thing since sliced bread what i was doing he!he! right lets get this right Steve and see how the pro's are doing it! cheers guys Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uk_Steve Posted October 16, 2011 Author Share Posted October 16, 2011 Hi Steve, what process did you use to get your graffiti lettering ? Hi Muddy Blues it was freehand with the posca paint pens Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddys-blues Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Hi Muddy Blues it was freehand with the posca paint pens Hi Steve, the effect of the graffiti is good, like others have mentioned, smaller would be better in my opinion, you would definitely get away with that amount on some hoppers or vans, but if it was a passenger carrying vehicle it would be withdrawn for graffiti removal, are the inks permanently - permanent ??? or can it be cleaned off if any clangers are done ? I will have to have a look at my local arti-shop for some of these pens. Regards Craig. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uk_Steve Posted October 16, 2011 Author Share Posted October 16, 2011 Hi Steve, the effect of the graffiti is good, like others have mentioned, smaller would be better in my opinion, you would definitely get away with that amount on some hoppers or vans, but if it was a passenger carrying vehicle it would be withdrawn for graffiti removal, are the inks permanently - permanent ??? or can it be cleaned off if any clangers are done ? I will have to have a look at my local arti-shop for some of these pens. Regards Craig. Hi Craig the good news with the pens you can remove the markings im sure there is better way then my method but i use lighter fluid to remove ink with a cotton bud or rag yeah agree some of the graffiti is big however i actully like it that way but you are 100% right the smaller stuff was running alot more b4 it got withdrawn to get buffed all the best from Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uk_Steve Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 Steve's Stage 1 after a little removing and replacing certain areas of the trains here is my new looking train roofs and faces, i think they are looking a loot better then my first attempt, lets see how you see them i done roofs more darker and more patchy on most trains all looking slighty diffrent,after looking at the photos of real trains my 1st roofs was way off i agree the train faces was wrong i agree didnt look realistic the silver on the buffer couplings and the way the dirt effect was applied was way off feedback welcomed all the best from Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 There was an interesting letter in the latest Model Rail (which I only got on Friday) where the writer was concerned that showing graffiti on models might encourage children to believe that it is acceptable. He has a point but graffiti (and I think it is criminal and reprehensible) is part of the modern landscape and to ignore it means our models don't reflect reality. The swastika is pretty reprehensible too but I get upset when aircraft models omit it for the sake of political correctness. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uk_Steve Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 There was an interesting letter in the latest Model Rail (which I only got on Friday) where the writer was concerned that showing graffiti on models might encourage children to believe that it is acceptable. He has a point but graffiti (and I think it is criminal and reprehensible) is part of the modern landscape and to ignore it means our models don't reflect reality. The swastika is pretty reprehensible too but I get upset when aircraft models omit it for the sake of political correctness. John graffiti has been around longer then i have been alive and i am sure it be around when i am dead as well some claim its been around in some form longer then trains have been around in the world since 2000 years back dont get me wrong i dont encourage graffiti in anyway which is against the lar, i regreat my days when i did it against the law,however i cant change what i did, but 1 story i like to share my old pal have gone to a diffrent level with his graffiti doing stuff for Walt Disney doing stuff for Football Stars, even helping multi million film ads etc and makes a very nice living now for himself now, so something which was negative turned into something which i will say very positive, even local councils comission him to do his graffiti in his city now, which is amazing in its self i think. i be able to do this links because he is a very good friend link to video news report http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cejj09kjrds link to him doing a couple of canvas paintings http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InXC3zIQ9gM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uk_Steve Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 here a few pics of his stuff and been on Tv with Rolfe Harris about some Art stuff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 It's not the graffiti per se that is so offensive - it is doing it on someone else's property without permission that is the problem. There are some fine artists as illustrated above (I assume these pieces were done with permission) - I have fond memories of Rolfe in his TV show (3 legged man?). However, those who just daub rubbish should stay home. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uk_Steve Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 It's not the graffiti per se that is so offensive - it is doing it on someone else's property without permission that is the problem. There are some fine artists as illustrated above (I assume these pieces were done with permission) - I have fond memories of Rolfe in his TV show (3 legged man?). However, those who just daub rubbish should stay home. John i totally understand where you coming from we see it nearly every day in our life anyway back to toy trains i think thats what makes me smile Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 i totally understand where you coming from we see it nearly every day in our life anyway back to toy trains i think thats what makes me smile Couldn't agree more, a good way to shelter from the world. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium gc4946 Posted October 18, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 18, 2011 Leaving graffiti aside, the only times I saw dirty passenger stock in service was when it was freezing, or very rarely, if the carriage washers were out of action. Because of possible slips and falls on the footboards and steps, BR didn't put carriages through the washers during frosty weather. Otherwise, BR and the train companies regularly washed their carriages. The machines cleaned the roofs and the sides, but where they failed to clean properly, dirt and dust accumulated in nooks and crannies on the ends and the undersides. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uk_Steve Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 Leaving graffiti aside, the only times I saw dirty passenger stock in service was when it was freezing, or very rarely, if the carriage washers were out of action. Because of possible slips and falls on the footboards and steps, BR didn't put carriages through the washers during frosty weather. Otherwise, BR and the train companies regularly washed their carriages. The machines cleaned the roofs and the sides, but where they failed to clean properly, dirt and dust accumulated in nooks and crannies on the ends and the undersides. i dont know if it was a area situation but they seemed grubby in my graffiti days because when we used to use pens we had to wipe the surface for dead flys and grime to use pens on the outside thats what i recall big style on these trains, hence most exterior graffiti tags was done in spray cans maybe i am being too close up then most but hay thats how i remember it on my routes aslo i recall the class 411 cep and Vep's which used to be 8 coaches or 12 coaches the link of the coaches by the 2 yellow ends internally was far from clean they was caked with flys and grime, back to my photos on my 1st attempt of the dirt was a disaster i can clearly see that now on my models which are i am re doing all the sides as we speak , but i think the roofs are pretty ok now http://www.semgonlin...cd_423555-3.jpg http://www.semgonlin...cd_423555-2.jpg when i see pics like this make me think i am going in the right direction because it certainly not just 1 colour and i recall that because i remember the patchy roofs on some trains, i know when the NSE version come to play they was all nice and cleanish and roofs was less patcy unless there was area which has been buffed for graffiti on the roof line which nearly always never matched the base colour, i am trying to do a snapshot of 1988/89/90 example any blue and gray was old and NSE are brand new. and when i get any jaffa's they be newish with bold marks also with the class 411 these are the older style windows which Bachmann have done i am hoping if Bachmann do another class 411 in Jaffa or NSE they will come with the newer style windows http://upload.wikime...on_Victoria.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium gc4946 Posted October 18, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 18, 2011 I've looked at your efforts, by and large the roofs are now OK. They got cleaned a fair bit by the carriage washers and over time the abrasive nature of the process made them patchy. This below includes some of my observations of EMUs that have gone through the carriage washer at Fratton (Portsmouth) numerous times. The Wikimedia photo (the last one) that you linked to shows clearly where the dirt accumulated on the cab end of a 4CEP. The roof overhang causes dirt to be trapped underneath between the top of the gangway and the roof. On a 4VEP type unit, as the ends are more rounded, the dirt accumulates just above the gangway door, around the gangways, and the recesses where the cables are kept, but the yellow connecting door itself, like the 4CEP, got pretty filthy through use. The inner ends on both 4CEP and 4VEP type units were dirty on top of and around the gangway, as the roofs overhung leaving an area where dirt accumulated because the washing process missed them, but the grey inner connecting doors (on a blue/grey unit) were cleaner as they were always kept coupled together. This photo also shows the Network SouthEast red fading in places to a slightly pinker shade. Again this is partly due to the number of times that's gone through the washer and also the long time since it was last painted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uk_Steve Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 I've looked at your efforts, by and large the roofs are now OK. They got cleaned a fair bit by the carriage washers and over time the abrasive nature of the process made them patchy. This below includes some of my observations of EMUs that have gone through the carriage washer at Fratton (Portsmouth) numerous times. The Wikimedia photo (the last one) that you linked to shows clearly where the dirt accumulated on the cab end of a 4CEP. The roof overhang causes dirt to be trapped underneath between the top of the gangway and the roof. On a 4VEP type unit, as the ends are more rounded, the dirt accumulates just above the gangway door, around the gangways, and the recesses where the cables are kept, but the yellow connecting door itself, like the 4CEP, got pretty filthy through use. The inner ends on both 4CEP and 4VEP type units were dirty on top of and around the gangway, as the roofs overhung leaving an area where dirt accumulated because the washing process missed them, but the grey inner connecting doors (on a blue/grey unit) were cleaner as they were always kept coupled together. This photo also shows the Network SouthEast red fading in places to a slightly pinker shade. Again this is partly due to the number of times that's gone through the washer and also the long time since it was last painted. thank you for the superb info i be taking this on baord thats for sure lets get to work Steve and do new pics in due course all the best from Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uk_Steve Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 new pics of the Network SouthEast NSE 2EPB Bachmann Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uk_Steve Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 Bachman 2epb grey and blue Emu Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uk_Steve Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 Bachman class 411 cep grey and blue Emu Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uk_Steve Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 More Bachman class 411 cep grey and blue Emu Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium gc4946 Posted October 25, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 25, 2011 Just looked at your latest attempts, your 2EPBs in particular look much better because the dirt has been applied better concentrating on nooks and crannies in the right places, without overdoing things The blue/grey 2EPB unit looks much better this time without so much brown applied on the grey, just highlighting the hinges and door frames is sufficient and the underframes of both units are weathered to a better standard for a train that's been in service for ages waiting for overhaul. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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