Tim Hale Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Hi, I have reached the point at which I need to install both ground signals, where are they located in relation to the turnout that they protect- are they adjacent and connected to the tiebar? Which side of the line are they located? I am also making dummy turnout levers from MSE for the goods yard - are there any online photos of the prototype in the early 60's? Unfortunately the only railway in my area has no sidings, therefore not much in the way of prototypical guidance. Many thanks for any help. Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 18, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 18, 2011 You're in luck, well for facing move signals at least - here's a picture (albeit 21st century) that sort of answers both questions as it shows a transitional situation where the disc and detectors have been installed (not yet in use) and the points are being worked by a hand lever (which is even the right way round!). This is Western kit so not exactly what you have in mind but the principle is exactly the same - the signal wires normally need to go through a detector and that has to be opposite the switch toes so the disc has to stand a couple of cribs in rear of that. The disc would normally be on the left as viewed from its approach side but sometimes siting constraints meant it would be put on the other side and obviously it would be clear of any fouling points. The one thing I'm not sure about is whether 'bent' (as per this pic) or straight handpoint levers would have been in use in the area you are modelling in the period you have in mind - I suspect they might have been straight but can't be at all sure on that. As far as signals protecting trailing points are concerned they would normally be sited immediately in rear of the fouling point and where suitable clearance existed although i would imagine most of what you will need would in any case be at the facing end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Different colour corrosion on the point operating doohickeys and the rail sides? Boot sole prints on the timbering? How are we expected to model this stuff? I really think the prototype organisation needs to give a bit more attention to consistent finish quality... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Hale Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 Very many thanks, It is destined for : http://timhalesblog.blogspot.com/2010/08/beaminster-junction-rather-simple.html it will be fully signalled as per the sketch but the actual position of the ground signals controlling access and egress to the goods yard was a bit of a puzzle. Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted October 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 19, 2011 Tim, Are the red dots on the plan the ground signals ? if so they don't appear to be correct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 19, 2011 Very many thanks, It is destined for : http://timhalesblog....her-simple.html it will be fully signalled as per the sketch but the actual position of the ground signals controlling access and egress to the goods yard was a bit of a puzzle. Tim Fairly simple job then Tim but could you clarify how much space there is between the successive point toes for the trailing connection into the yard and the trailing crossover please? That little query apart the rest is easy apart from the date which I'm assuming from other stuff you've written/shown is BR period - am I right on that? Once these points are confirmed it will be a simple matter to tell you where to put the 3 (or possibly 4) ground signals you need and what type would be most suitable for date. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Ava_Hay Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Forgive my ignorance but would ground signals be used in a manual point lever situation? I speak from experience on a couple of preserved railways where all signals are controlled from a signal box and the manually operated points were literally just that and the driver can see the set of the points and has the shunter as well giving hand signals. I guess that Des A is modelling the steam era like me so these experiences would be valid for modelling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Hale Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 Dave, The red dots are uncouplers. Mike Tim Maddocks has already provided a scheme for the ground signals- standard discs for the running line crossover and a yellow semaphore arm for the RH turnout at the entrance to goods yard. The two crossovers form a ladder here : http://timhalesblog.blogspot.com/2011/06/trackplan-change.html This might help, unfortunately the icons for inserting a picture are not visible on my computer. Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted October 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 19, 2011 Forgive my ignorance but would ground signals be used in a manual point lever situation? I speak from experience on a couple of preserved railways where all signals are controlled from a signal box and the manually operated points were literally just that and the driver can see the set of the points and has the shunter as well giving hand signals. I guess that Des A is modelling the steam era like me so these experiences would be valid for modelling. The signalled routes are over points controlled by the signal box, hand levers either straight or swan necked in this case, control the yard points - 2 different things, in most cases it's the connection to the running line which is signalled and controlled by the box. hth Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 19, 2011 Dave, The red dots are uncouplers. Mike Tim Maddocks has already provided a scheme for the ground signals- standard discs for the running line crossover and a yellow semaphore arm for the RH turnout at the entrance to goods yard. The two crossovers form a ladder here : http://timhalesblog....lan-change.html This might help, unfortunately the icons for inserting a picture are not visible on my computer. Tim Tim - if young Tim M has already given you a suitable plan I'm trusting him to be accurate (and if he isn't I'll duly put him right). Has he used 2 red discs or three? (don't worry about the yellow one as I'm sure he's got that right, well I think I'm sure ). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Hale Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 In the above diagram, the red dots beside the mainline crossover are the ground signals (two discs for the crossover) whilst the yellow dot is the shunting ground signals that controls egress of the goodsyard, Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted October 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 19, 2011 Sorry to drop off the thread a bit. But Mike if Tim M is 'young Tim' what the hell am I? Twinkle in Daddy's eye Nick! Regards, Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 19, 2011 In the above diagram, the red dots beside the mainline crossover are the ground signals (two discs for the crossover) whilst the yellow dot is the shunting ground signals that controls egress of the goodsyard, Tim Alas it's wrong (or more likely drawn incorrectly) then Des - where's the Cap'n hiding? Here's what it should look like assuming SR pattern ground signals - Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Hale Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 19, 2011 Sorry to drop off the thread a bit. But Mike if Tim M is 'young Tim' what the hell am I? Twinkle in Daddy's eye Nick! Regards, Nick He's definitely 'young' to me Nick, but then you're even younger (and I'm not even all that old, I think - but I knew Tim before he had any grey hairs and long before my beard turned white ) (And due apologies for wasting your space Des) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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