Beading and other detail in 2mm

[bogieman]

Does anyone have any useful tips, preferably from actual experience rather than theory, on soldering beading and other long strips of detail on 2mm locos etc,. For example I've soldered the cab opening beading around the M7 I'm building that went easier than expected as there are some advantages in its location that aid the job. And it's a job that can be done with the sides off the loco and lying flat on a surface.

However I'm now considering how I can add the strip along the top of the tanks without getting solder on the rivet detail along to top of the tank side. Made more difficult by having a right angle where the side turns to the front of the tank.

And after that there's the vertical strips to add to the cab roof!

Any tips from experienced hands?

[CF MRC]

Always tin the side at the edge and the wire you are using. Start in the middle or one end of the of the tank tacking into place. Pull straightened (attach one end in a vice and yank it hard) wire tight in the correct orientation and then run a fairly dry iron outwards with plenty of phosphoric acid flux. DO NOT tack at each end and solder towards the middle as the wire will buckle with the heat! Use relatively large soft copper wire and then file it down afterwards to the correct size and straightness. Clean up the solder with a sharp chisel (ground up broken needle file or graver).

 

I usually make cab roof edges by incorporating them into the roof and beating the (overlong) edges over a sharp vice jaw, then put the curve of the roof in afterwards. The sharpness of the edge and the height the lip needs to be reduced with a file afterwards. Estimating the exact length of roof arc and edging is a bit tricky and you may end up with a couple of spare roofs.

Much stronger method than trying to solder on a lip.

 

Always make details finer than you think: very easy to be over scale.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Tim

[-missy-]

Hello Bogieman.

 

I always use 0.3mm diameter wire for my handrails. Usually guitar string wire but if not, then Nickel Silver wire or Brass if I cannot find any of the others. The 2mm SA handrail knobs have a 0.3mm diamter hole in them to accept the wire.I dont think anyone will notice its 0.05mm too big!

 

Are you going to post any pictures of your engine? I would love to see some...

 

Missy

[2mm Andy]

In the past I have used 0.3mm dia. nickel silver wire (it's harder than brass, so not so easy to bend or kink). However, I found some 0.2mm nickel silver wire in a Modelzone shop recently, and intend giving that a try on a few projects. This may sound flimsy, but provided you don't pick the loco up by the handrails it should be OK. The biggest problem for me is drilling the holes - make sure you have a good stock of the smaller size drills because you'll probably break a few! Another useful point is to remember that when you paint the loco the handrails suddenly become quite a bit thicker with all the paint.

 

Some 2mm modellers use little twists of fuse wire to form the handrail knobs - the turned ones are sometimes a bit on the large side (depends on the prototypes). There was also a plan to make some etched ones (not as daft as it sounds) but I haven't heard any more on this recently.

 

I too would like to see some photos of your loco .

 

Andy

[Chris Higgs]

In the past I have used 0.3mm dia. nickel silver wire (it's harder than brass, so not so easy to bend or kink). However, I found some 0.2mm nickel silver wire in a Modelzone shop recently, and intend giving that a try on a few projects. This may sound flimsy, but provided you don't pick the loco up by the handrails it should be OK. The biggest problem for me is drilling the holes - make sure you have a good stock of the smaller size drills because you'll probably break a few! Another useful point is to remember that when you paint the loco the handrails suddenly become quite a bit thicker with all the paint.

 

Some 2mm modellers use little twists of fuse wire to form the handrail knobs - the turned ones are sometimes a bit on the large side (depends on the prototypes). There was also a plan to make some etched ones (not as daft as it sounds) but I haven't heard any more on this recently.

 

I too would like to see some photos of your loco .

 

Andy

 

Bob Jones' kits all contain etched handrail knobs. Very simple concept, once you solder the rail into the hole the solder itself forms the round ball of the knob.

 

I'd still go for guitar wire for handrails, as you can be sure sooner or later your loco will get picked up be the handrails, or knocked or something.

 

Chris

[2mm Andy]

 

Bob Jones' kits all contain etched handrail knobs. Very simple concept, once you solder the rail into the hole the solder itself forms the round ball of the knob.

 

Chris

 

Yep - they're the ones, but I thought there was a plan to sell an etch of handrail knobs separately via the 2mm shops (they're listed under 3-528 as NYA)?

 

Andy

[Gingerbread]

Moving on this topic as I started it can I ask advice on a further query on my first 2mm loco. Smokebox doors - ok so I can turn the door disc and solder on the hinges but what about the handles on the centre? What's best for making that and how?

Thanks for any tips

I have seen handrail knobs suggested.

 

David

[65179]

Handrail knobs, solder one up from wire or use the Fence Houses Model Foundry smokebox fittings etch. The hinge straps on the etch are for certain locos with NER smokebox doors, but the locking handles and the top lamp bracket are useful (see 2mm in the garden topic to see what they look like when fitted.

 

Simon

[richbrummitt]

Pete Wright's booklet has a method for these bits (and a great many others).

[Guest Natalie Graham]

Smokebox doors - ok so I can turn the door disc and solder on the hinges but what about the handles on the centre? What's best for making that and how?

 

 

My method is to drill a hole in the centre of the smokebox door blank. A length of brass rod is soldered through this projecting a few mm from the front. Then, holding this rod in the chuck of whatever you are using to turn with, turn the door and turn the projecting piece of the rod to the diameter for the door handle shaft. The rod at the back can be cut short to leave a handy locating pin to fit into a hole drilled in the front of the smokebox, holding it in the right place while it is soldered.

 

Then take short lengths of thin brass wire, of the diameter to form the handles. bend them back on themselves at the end and squidge this bit flat in a vice. Drill through the middle of this flat bit the same diameter as the pin on the front of the smokebox, then file around the holes to form the shape of the handles, Cut the handles to length. Pop them over the shaft and space with pieces of paper of suitable thickness, add a drop of solder paint and apply the iron. Clean it up and you have smokebox door handles. This works for the two lever type handles. The LNWR five spoke wheel type is a different matter altogether.

[Guest Natalie Graham]

Squires had some 0.2mm drills on their stand at Glasgow. I don't know if they do 0.25mm ones as well

[Ian Smith]

Bogieman,

 

I too am scratchbuilding my first 2mm loco. I have used a 0.3mm drill for the holes in the smokebox, but when I get to the cab sides it was my intention to put a little dimple (a rivet if you like) at the point where the handrail knob will go, then file off the resultant "gnat bite pimple" on the other side. Hopefully this will give me a little hole that I can then open up if necessary with a tapered broach.

 

Hope this helps (and works )

 

Ian

[richbrummitt]

I've been reading a thread of photobuilds of JLTRT 7mm engines and the builder advocates joining the handrails in the upper knob at the front (above the smokebox door). It makes sense to me but I haven't tried it. Can't help with the drill because I've used No 80s in the past.

[Guest Natalie Graham]

Just one thing, assuming you are soldering the handrail knobs in place is that having the holes slightly oversize can be invaluable if you haven't drilled the holes in perfect allignment.

[Guest Natalie Graham]

I have not seen the association ones, having always used the 'split pin' wire technique with the wire filed to half-round. I can vouch for the fact that method works but whether the association knobs are easier to use and/or better looking I can't say.

[richbrummitt]

But nobody has attempted to answer one point, are the 2mmSA handrail knobs a good solution or difficult to use and they are so very tiny? As I've read that a thin wire (possibly scraped flat on one side) bent like a split pin can look better and be more flexible and easier to work with. Does anyone have a view from personal experience?

 

Some of the handrail knobs I have had are a bit on the large side. The D shaped wire method is advocated in The 4mm Engine by the late Guy Williams. If only my work looked like his

[Donw]

Squires had some 0.2mm drills on their stand at Glasgow. I don't know if they do 0.25mm ones as well

 

If you have a 0.2mm drill use that and then open it to a tight fit with a jewellers broach my set starts at 0.2mm. Works well for 'wire' split pins which may be an odd size.

Don

[CF MRC]

2 mm Scala Association handrail knobs are overscale and file up to make good clack valves.

 

Tim

[CF MRC]

Split pins, as discussed earlier.

 

Tim

[Guest Natalie Graham]

No, it isn't beginner's luck. Solder doesn't grow when you use it so if you only apply a tiny piece you should get a neat joint and the more you practice the neater they will get. You might also like to try solder paint or paste.

[richbrummitt]

I like the Carrs paste that comes in a syringe. I think they do 179 and 138. The former is not cheap and the latter more expensive still. I've only actually used the 179.

[Guest Natalie Graham]

I just use 188 for everything bar whitemtal castings. I have a bad habit of not putting it back in its packet and end up not being able to tell which is which if I have more than one type. After once inadvertantly building a master for whitemetal casting using low-melt solder (The result of the mould vulcanising process what not what was intended) I resolved to stick with one type. I use solder paint rather than cream or paste and haven't found any reason to try the others. I had some stuff in a syringe once, years ago, but it went rock hard very quickly so I stuck with the jars after that.

[2mm Andy]

For me the 179 solder cream wins hands-down. It's extrememly controllable (you can put the tiniest smear on a surface to be joined), lasts for ages (the only contact with air is at the tip of the needle) and because it has a small amount of silver in it, flows very well. The only down side is the price. I occasionally use 60/40 solder bought from a local hardware shop during the great leaded solder scare a few a years ago (at the exorbitant price of £1 a reel!) if I need a lot of solder and don't want to waste the cream. For whitemetal castings I use lowmelt (70 degree) solder from Carrs.

 

I've not tried the 138 cream.

 

SImilarly, I don't take much notice of advice to use temperature-controlled irons in 2mm modelling; I control the temperature of the work by how long I dwell with the iron. Not very scientific I know, but it works for me 95% of the time.

 

When I look back at the modelling techniques and tools of 40-50 years ago, I realise just how lucky we are to have soldering irons that don't need heating on the gas stove/range, a huge range of different solders, solder creams, paints and fluxes, etc. And still the likes of Miller, Beeson, etc. turned out museum quality models!

 

Andy

[Donw]

Some years ago Stewart Hine produced some etched for a Toad I was having some trouble with the corner pieces. Stewart asked what Iron I was using the look on his facewas priceless when I said a solid one on the gas ring in the back of the van. It was a small one used for crystal radios and the like.

Don