'O' gauge ? first tentative steps. Corrugated goods shed part 3: Painting and weathering

[Trainshed Terry]

 

Pictures, please......lots of pictures.

 

I agree with you on that one.

 

Terry.

[Donw]

I didn't say there was anything wrong with curved A5 turnouts but unless its a Y turnout then the diverging radius will be reduced. If an A5 turnout is placed in a 10ft radius curve the diverging radius will be about 3ft 4in ( I 'll work it out exactly if you need it) this is true of ANY scale. In P4 it would be fine but in 0 gauge its rather tight. If however yo place an A5 in 20ft radius the diverging radius will be about 4ft much more useful. I mentioned it because people do not always think of the effect and its not much fun building a turnout thats too tight. If you are just curving the the turnouts a little to get a nice flow you will have few problems but if you place them on serious curves you can have problems. Also a crossover made with A5 turnouts will be fine for goods stock but for bogie coaches you may have some problems depending on the buffers heads and the type of couplings. Also with large locos such as Pacifics where there can be a lot of overhang.

Don

[David Siddall]

Stephen and Martin, Mrs S says many thanks for the birthday wishes... I can report that we're both now semi-recovered. Loved the bluesy theme on Jools' Hootenenny last night ...though we probably shouldn't have continued with the champagne to accompany the rather excellent 'Best of Glastonbury 2011' we found to watch after :-/

 

Pending the arrival of the correct roller gauges which will allow me to make a start on my turnout kit I can offer those who asked for pictures a quick snap of progress with my first 7mm scale wagon - a Peco 'mineral', now ready for the paintshop. Painting will however have to wait as the pong of aerosols tends to invade the whole house and wouldn't, I suspect, be entirely welcome just at the moment. Whilst I found the whiff of Butanone rather invigorating this afternoon (that's my story anyway) it would be probably best not afflict my beloved with essence of Halfords grey primer for a day or so yet.

 

 

The foam BTW hides a chunk of brass to give the wagon a bit of weight and will be covered in crushed real coal (but not today as that'll involve bashing up a couple of lumps of South Wales finest and there are other quieter things I'd rather be getting on with ;-)

 

Don, Bill and Martyn, I will give your continuing technical advice about turnouts, chairs, radii, etc., a thorough read through again during the week when normal service resumes in what might be called the 'grey matter department'. It's all much appreciated...

 

TTFN (zzzzz.. z... z... z....)

[Debs.]

Stephen and Martin, Mrs S says many thanks for the birthday wishes... I can report that we're both now semi-recovered. Lovin' loved the bluesy theme on Jools' Hootenenny last night ...though we probably shouldn't have continued with the champagne to accompany the rather excellent 'Best of Glastonbury 2011' we found to watch after :-/

 

Pending the arrival of the correct roller gauges which will allow me to make a start on my turnout kit I can offer those who asked for pictures a quick snap of progress with my first 7mm scale wagon - a Peco 'mineral', now ready for the paintshop. Painting will however have to wait as the pong of aerosols tends to invade the whole house and wouldn't, I suspect, be entirely welcome just at the moment. Whilst I found the whiff of Butanone rather invigorating this afternoon (that's my story anyway) it would be probably best not afflict my beloved with essence of Halfords grey primer for a day or so yet.

 

 

The foam BTW hides a chunk of brass to give the wagon a bit of weight and will be covered in crushed real coal (but not today as that'll involve bashing up a couple of lumps of South Wales finest and there are other quieter things I'd rather be getting on with ;-)

 

Don, Bill and Martyn, I will give your continuing technical advice about turnouts, chairs, radii, etc., a thorough read through again during the week when normal service resumes in what might be called the 'grey matter department'. It's all much appreciated...

 

TTFN (zzzzz.. z... z... z....)

 

Nice work David......it`ll be nice to have something to roll through your turnouts as you`re making them......anyway, "trying running clearances" is my excuse for pushing my two P.O wagons back and forth on a regular basis!

 

Might I ask; did the Peco kit`s price include the wheels-sets?

[David Siddall]

Might I ask; did the Peco kit`s price include the wheels-sets?

 

It most certainly did Debs, and a set of transfers too. All the parts are beautifully moulded with no flash and it pretty well fell together (albeit I did have to pack one of the suspension units a tad to get it to sit dead level (most likely my fault ...I'm guessing I didn't sit one of the 'w-irons' right down onto the locating pegs). Apart from putting it to the very practical purpose you describe I couldn't resist trying one after seeing Stephen's stunningly weathered example.

[Warspite]

 

It most certainly did Debs, and a set of transfers too. All the parts are beautifully moulded with no flash and it pretty well fell together (albeit I did have to pack one of the suspension units a tad to get it to sit dead level (most likely my fault ...I'm guessing I didn't sit one of the 'w-irons' right down onto the locating pegs). Apart from putting it to the very practical purpose you describe I couldn't resist trying one after seeing Stephen's stunningly weathered example.

 

Oh, David, you flatterer! Mrs Warspite was most impressed!

 

Have been reading Nigel's thread on the Peco kit, it all seems a bit of a minefield. Now might be a good time to add the gussets (or remove the top caps). I might just have to add the gussets myself ........ and change the number, although it's so covered in grime that nobody's going to notice but me!

[David Siddall]

I trust that Mrs W now also appreciates that you're not alone (or certifiable) when, on laying hands on a pristine new model, the first thing that goes through your mind is covering it in grime? It took Mrs S a while to come to terms with my enthusiasm for rendering smaller scale model railway Christmas presents almost unrecognisable by the end of Boxing Day ;-)

 

On the subject of Peco mineral wagons I must admit that whilst I do like things to be a right as I can make them I might have to pick a point at which to prioritise progress over absolute prototypical fidelity. The precise combinations of gussets and end caps (...the mention of which in the same sentence in a 'Carry On' movie would have been an absolute gift to Kenneth Williams), is currently in danger of absorbing more of my attention than the mysteries of turnout chairs!

 

I am however going to add the angle-iron body supports (oh alright then Matron, gussets ;-) whilst I await the arrival of my roller gauges... but as to how its going to be numbered I haven't a clue? Since my layout's location is going to be fictitious perhaps 'indistinctly' might indeed be the way forward?

 

D

[rsv1000r]

I trust that Mrs W now also appreciates that you're not alone (or certifiable) when, on first laying hands on a pristine new model, the first thing that goes through your mind is covering it in grime? It took Mrs S a while to come to terms with my enthusiasm for rendering smaller scale r-t-r Christmas presents almost unrecognisable by the end of Boxing Day ;-)

 

I must admit that whilst I do like things to be a right as I can make them I might have to pick a point at which to prioritise progress over absolute prototypical fidelity. The precise combinations of gussets and end caps (...the mention of both of which in the same sentence in a 'Carry On' movie would have been an absolute gift to Kenneth Williams), is currently absorbing almost as much of my attention as the mysteries of turnout chairs!

 

I am however going to add the angle-iron body supports (all right then, gussets ;-) whilst I await the arrival of my roller gauges... but as to how its going to be numbered I haven't a clue? Since my layout's location is going to be fictitious perhaps 'indistinctly' might indeed be the way forward?

 

D

don't go putting your gussets on yet david!! not till we get a definitive position for them?

 

Nigel

[David Siddall]

OK Nigel, thanks for that timely intervention... I'll temporarily hold on the gussets! Dunno about you but I can amost hear Kenneth Williams' ghostly laughter, or is it a spectral chuckle from Frankie Howerd? 'Oh titter ye not madam'... not a bad invocation for one short sentence ;-)

 

Back to attempting to understand the vagaries and variations of turnout chairs for a bit!

 

D

[rsv1000r]

haha, ooh missus, have you read the last posts on the peco thread? I think between us paul & I we've decided where they go? not always in the same place!! there's a surprise then!

 

Nigel

[3 link]

Let rivet counters unite !! .

 

Sorry I'll get me coat .

 

ATB, Martyn.

[hmrspaul]

haha, ooh missus, have you read the last posts on the peco thread? I think between us paul & I we've decided where they go? not always in the same place!! there's a surprise then!

 

Nigel

and often not there at all.

 

Paul Bartlett

[rsv1000r]

true, true

 

nigel

[David Siddall]

I think between us paul & I we've decided where they go? not always in the same place!! there's a surprise then!

 

and often not there at all.

 

Which I hope suggests that a philistine like me could just about get away with invoking the 'there's prototype for pretty well everything if you just look hard enough' clause... thank (insert specific or non-specific deity of choice here...) for that :-)

 

TTFN

[rsv1000r]

 

 

 

Which I hope suggests that a philistine like me could just about get away with invoking the 'there's prototype for pretty well everything if you just look hard enough' clause... thank (insert specific or non-specific deity of choice here...) for that :-)

 

TTFN

I think it'll depend on whether you want to model a specific wagon, or a generic one David??

 

Nigel

[David Siddall]

Back in the (other) minefield that is turnout construction I've been familiarising myself with all the various components of my 'Turnout-in-a-bag' and its instructions, and have plucked up sufficient courage to cut my first length of rail. This will form what I believe is called the 'stock' rail (the straight one), and the off-cut will (eventually) become its 'check' rail. I've threaded a pair of chairs, one at either end, to get a feel for how they work too. It only took a couple of minutes to find the second chair after it pinged off into space! Note to self - more care required next time when separating them from the moulding sprue!.

 

What is clear is that only two types of chair are supplied (standard and slide), and that a little bit of ingenuity will be required to create representations of all the various other types required - looking at the template and following the various advice I've been given this doesn't look to be an insurmountable issue. I've also extracted the exquisitely per-formed 'vee' (the 'common crossing' as I think it should be more properly referred to), from the safety of its packet and laid it in position to see what it looks like in situ :-)

 

More in due course but this could take a while... I've got two jobs, one of which is our home-based business, and both have a nasty habit of intruding on my modelling time. I'm also going to be taking it steadily because subjecting my first attempt to public scrutiny suggests a degree of prudence (that or I'm totally certifiable... ;-)

 

 

 

That all for now folks...

[3 link]

Hi David,

 

Just a couple of tips, before you thread on the chairs just file the rail ends a little and you will find this will help guide the chairs onto the rail and also keep the chairs on the sprue while attempting this as it makes them easier to handle ( then they won't fly off ). Also you probably know already but the chairs are faced a certain way depending on the direction the traffic is traveling.

 

ATB, Martyn.

 

P.S. Please don't think I'm "a nit picker " but it looks like in the photo above that you have the chair on the wrong side of the rail, it's the one holding the vee the middle chair of the 3 on show, the one above is correct. Easily done and have done it many times myself.

[Debs.]

Hi David,

 

Just a couple of tips, before you thread on the chairs just file the rail ends a little and you will find this will help guide the chairs onto the rail and also keep the chairs on the sprue while attempting this as it makes them easier to handle ( then they won't fly off ). Also you probably know already but the chairs are faced a certain way depending on the direction the traffic is traveling.

 

ATB, Martyn.

 

Would that be so that any rail-creep might tighten the keys; rather than loosen them?

[3 link]

 

Would that be so that any rail-creep might tighten the keys; rather than loosen them?

 

 

That's right but as to how much it actually helped I'm not sure as the permanent way were forever knocking the keys back in and replacing the rotten ones, also the keys were placed differently at the fish plates and check rails.

 

ATB, Martyn.

[rsv1000r]

 

 

That's right but as to how much it actually helped I'm not sure as the permanent way were forever knocking the keys back in and replacing the rotten ones, also the keys were placed differently at the fish plates and check rails.

 

ATB, Martyn.

& on single lines with bi-directional traffic?

 

Nigel

[David Siddall]

...it looks like in the photo above that you have the chair on the wrong side of the rail, it's the one holding the vee the middle chair of the 3 on show, the one above is correct. Easily done and have done it many times myself.

 

Thanks Martyn... one of the benefits of (1) a dry run, and 2) giving more experienced folks the chance to look over my shoulder :-) ...not even contemplating getting the top off the Butanone until I'm happy things are as right as I can get them.

 

Anyone like to suggest which way the keys should face on a branch terminus - towards arrival or departure?

 

D

[66C]

Hi David

 

Photo of complete switch as promised. I hope there is enough detail to see the different types of chairs. Normal chairs are 3-bolt but you can see bridge chairs around the rail joints at the bottom of the picture - you can identify these by there being 2 bolts on the outside of the rail - in particular at the bottom centre of the picture.

 

 

This example is on the SRPS line at Bo'ness.

 

Photos of my own efforts to follow.

 

Regards.

[3 link]

& on single lines with bi-directional traffic?

 

Nigel

 

 

 

Anyone like to suggest which way the keys should face on a branch terminus - towards arrival or departure?

 

D

 

Hi,

 

I was waiting for this particular question , below is a diagram and photo of how the chairs were keyed. This is to GWR practice so as to how other companies dealt with the matter I do not know, the same I would think.

 

 

 

 

 

ATB, Martyn.

[66C]

OK - as threatened - pictures of some of my own efforts.

 

Timbering and rail is from C&L with part machined switch and crossing sets. Chairs are from Exactoscale - 3 bolt for normal with bridge chairs as required and 4 bolt chairs for the check rails.

The track has been built directly on to the Templot printout on photocopy card (160 gsm). Chairs are threaded on to the rail and secured with Plastic Weld. All the turnouts have a curved main road to suit the track layout. The switch and V types are chosen to suit the location and the need to get a lot in a small space. The timbers were coloured with a dilute mix of black and brown enamel paint prior to fixing the rail and chairs. The rail has subsequently been coloured with acrylic paint from an airbrush. The tie bars are the Ambis type from C&L. The first tie bar has been extended to provide a drive point on the side away from the viewing side of the layout.

 

 

The first picture shows a short switch ( a 1:24 model only type) for a number 6 turnout with a minimum radius of 71.6". Only one heel chair is represented in this example. The rail joins at the right of the picture are cosmetic.

 

 

The second picture shows the common crossing for this turnout. The rail at the common crossing is soldered to short strips of copperclad to maintain alignment and provide electrical continuity throughout the crossing so there are a few cosmetic chairs. I trim the 4 bolt chairs for the check rails so that 30 thou is left on the inside of the rail and then two chairs are used on each timber to give a representation of the check rail chairs. To my mind this is much better that the often suggested method of alternating trimmed and cosmetic chairs.

A baseboard join is evident at the right side of the picture.

 

 

The third picture shows a longer switch - a 1:32 model only type. This switch has two heel chairs represented.

 

 

I hope this provides a bit of help. Building on the Templot printout using the components is, in my opinion, easier than using copperclad construction. Mistakes are much easier to fix!

 

Regards.

[David Siddall]

Martyn, Bill thank you so much for these, albeit they probably do pose yet more questions such as... if chairs face in an alternating direction on bi-directional plain track is this also the case on turnouts? I'm also seeing what appear to be at least three different designs of key across the various images and I'm wondering if those at Bo'ness would be representative of former GWR or BR(W) practice? And am I imagining it, or are C&L's representation of chair keys somewhat exaggerated? To my eyes they'd benefit from a little bit of a prune???

 

Anyway... for those who've never seen a pre-assembled C&L common crossing before here are a couple of 'closer-up' photos... they seem to use the same technique Bill describes to hold everything in place and to make the necessary electrical connections.

 

I've included a 'chair sprue' in the shot which shows that I had indeed failed to notice that they're supplied 'handed' (duh) ...albeit it might be a bit difficult to see that they are as I don't have suitable lighting to make it really clear.

 

 

 

My grand plan is to grab an hour at my work bench tomorrow night (Fri) during which I hope to get the straight stock rail correctly chaired and secured in place so any advice about the direction chairs should point on that would be much appreciated. Roller gauges are due to arrive on Saturday so I'm hoping to have something looking a lot more turnout-like up together by the end of Sunday ...providing nobody drops a pile of work on us that has to be completed over the weekend! It does happen, but work pays the bills (and provides pocket money for modelling) so we'll just have to see - what is they say about the plans of mice and men???

 

Thanks again...

 

D