Pennine MC Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 ... I have a vague recollection from the 1970s (for some reason, most of my recollections from that period are a little vague) that some of the former Insulfishes were branded with V?V TOPS Codes, whilst others carried N?V markings. Can anyone else confirm this? The ones I recall from overnight trips to Aberystwyth were NPV. NPV was the code for ex-SPVs, like all Nxx codes it signified NPCCS. I've also seen odd photos though (one or more of which may be on Paul's Zenfolio site) showing ex-SPVs with 'VXV' codes (which of course is in the goods van series). In fact we possibly discussed this waaaay back on the DEMU forum. Whether there was any real operational distinction between NPVs and VXVs is a moot point I suppose Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted November 29, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 29, 2011 3V01 Brum Curzon Street to Worcester Shrub Hill was a cracking parcels train. One vanfit - usually hauled by a boiler fitted 25 but turned up one day with D373. Over kill or what? But a great prototype. Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 NPV was the code for ex-SPVs, like all Nxx codes it signified NPCCS. I've also seen odd photos though (one or more of which may be on Paul's Zenfolio site) showing ex-SPVs with 'VXV' codes (which of course is in the goods van series). In fact we possibly discussed this waaaay back on the DEMU forum. Whether there was any real operational distinction between NPVs and VXVs is a moot point I suppose Presumably the NPCCS ones worked on Rail Express Parcels work, and the others worked on NCL Sundries traffic. There's a published photo in one of the various hydraulic albums showing a freight from Cornwall with two wagons loaded with Compair compressors, followed by a raft of ex-Insulfishes- these would have been on NCL work, I suspect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 NPV was the code for ex-SPVs, like all Nxx codes it signified NPCCS. I've also seen odd photos though (one or more of which may be on Paul's Zenfolio site) showing ex-SPVs with 'VXV' codes (which of course is in the goods van series). In fact we possibly discussed this waaaay back on the DEMU forum. Whether there was any real operational distinction between NPVs and VXVs is a moot point I suppose The various incarnations of the fish vans are at http://paulbartlett....olio.com/brfish There are several NRVs, these were in Readers Digest traffic from Aylesbury - shared with SR design PMVs and the odd LMS BG. Until the corporate (Boxed in) livery staff were expected to be able to recognise a van but the Corporate image usually labelled the standard vans as VAN, although VANFIT did appear sometimes - an example at http://PaulBartlett....anked/e27d7f728 By the time of TOPS coding VVV it is unlikely that these vans would be used in any non freight trains. - mention of vans behind DMUs for example is likely to have been longer wheelbase vans, such as SR PMV and CCT, BR CCT etc. etc. Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Presumably the NPCCS ones worked on Rail Express Parcels work, and the others worked on NCL Sundries traffic. There's a published photo in one of the various hydraulic albums showing a freight from Cornwall with two wagons loaded with Compair compressors, followed by a raft of ex-Insulfishes- these would have been on NCL work, I suspect. Almiost certainly, the RO records that the first SPVs were for NCL sundries trains (I've always thought it unlikely they were intended for random parcels use, given the number of 'proper' parcels vans around at the time they were seconded). But I dont think the TOPS codes really indicate a distinction, as the dividing line between sundries and parcels can be pretty thin (unless SM Mike knows the official line?). Given Paul's post, I'm now inclined to think that the VXV code was a reflection of their not being used widely for parcels (or at parcels speeds), with some NPVs changing use but never being recoded. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Almiost certainly, the RO records that the first SPVs were for NCL sundries trains (I've always thought it unlikely they were intended for random parcels use, given the number of 'proper' parcels vans around at the time they were seconded). But I dont think the TOPS codes really indicate a distinction, as the dividing line between sundries and parcels can be pretty thin (unless SM Mike knows the official line?). Given Paul's post, I'm now inclined to think that the VXV code was a reflection of their not being used widely for parcels (or at parcels speeds), with some NPVs changing use but never being recoded. Does anyone have a TOPS coding booklet which has VX- in it? It is not in those upto October 1978, and it is not mentioned by Dave Larkin in his books. Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 30, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 30, 2011 Does anyone have a TOPS coding booklet which has VX- in it? It is not in those upto October 1978, and it is not mentioned by Dave Larkin in his books. Paul Bartlett VX is in the June 1976 TOPS code booklet and is described as 'Van (ex SPV)'. Going back to the question raised by Ian the only SPV use I can remember on the Western was their use in Sundries (NCL) trains and the first to operate on the Region ran between Paddington and Bristol and were, or seemed to be, generally seen as a way of trying to keep long distance Sundries flows on rail but i can't answer for what went on elsewhere. It was I suppose a way of re-using vehicles which were quite suited to the job but in reality only suited if you started from a traditional railway viewpoint of how to handle goods smalls traffic. I can't recall seeing them in parcels traffic (i.e the traffic through - usually - passenger stations) which BR retained but that should not be read as saying they weren't so used, just that I can't recall seeing them used in that way. To be honest they wouldn't really have been much use by then as a parcels van with so much traffic being handled in BRUTES although they might conceivably have had an outing in Christmas Post specials. The official difference between sundries (previously 'goods smalls') and parcels was fairly straightforward - parcels were passenger rated traffic and smalls were goods rated and the maximum weight of a smalls consignment could be up to 1 ton (above which it was charged at wagonload rates) but I can't for the life of me remember the upper weight limit on a singe parcels consignment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 VX is in the June 1976 TOPS code booklet and is described as 'Van (ex SPV)'. Thanks for correcting my assumption. Its not in 2nd edition April 1974 or 5th edition October 1978! (both BR2489/51) Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 30, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 30, 2011 Thanks for correcting my assumption. Its not in 2nd edition April 1974 or 5th edition October 1978! (both BR2489/51) Paul Bartlett Same BR number for the June 1976 edition Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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