RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted May 24, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 24, 2012 After sleeping on it i've got a second wind of DCC !! I spent a good hour chatting with my friend in the model shop about decoders & getting some advice. I've switched off the back EMF functions on the decoders & i've managed to get the locos running a lot sweeter than they was. The only one what's gone backwards is the 3F which is running like a bag of rusty nails. Me & the father are off to the speedway tonight so tomorrow i am going to do battle with that decoder & get that running sweetly. My exhibition fleet is getting there now & happily running well too. I'm hoping by sunday to have the last bit of ballasting done & the platform edgings finished off & a template made for me to cut wills sheet from for the platform flagstones. I've managed to get hold of some nice big chunks of polystyrene which i am going to calve up to make a nice hill from so that is going to be the next part all being well. Simon I'm very pleased to hear about the DCC Simon, as I'm a committed fan! (Some say I should be committed!!). Fingers crossed. Look forward to seeing your hillside develop. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Moore Posted May 24, 2012 Author Share Posted May 24, 2012 Cheers Jeff, I think half the problem with my DCC exploits are cheap chips !!! I think i need to invest in decent decoders & learn more about CV's & programing. It's not my strong point i will admit but hopefully i'll get the hang of it & these teething problems will be a thing of the past. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 After sleeping on it i've got a second wind of DCC !! Well done Simon, I'm glad to hear about that! Once you get into DCC, it really is such good fun, even if it is a steep learning curve for the first year or so! Good luck with it. Cheers, John E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Moore Posted May 25, 2012 Author Share Posted May 25, 2012 Cheers John, I've had a trouble free morning with the 3F i've programmed the decoder & it's giving me a smooth running loco although i am struggling to get more speed steps out of it. I tap my controller & for the first 4 notches it gives me nothing then on the 5th notch up it moves slowly so i am using 2 notches now on the controller to run the loco. It's a start but i want more freedom of control i want it to move from notch 1 on the controller & give me more control but i fear that the Bachmann 21 pin decoder is not the best item to fit in the 3F. I think i might fit a Lenz decoder into the loco because i find they are very good. The real shocker for me yesterday was the Fairburn tank, The Fairburn has a bog standard Bachmann decoder in it but after reading a few things & trying a few things out ( switching off the back EMF & setting CV54 & 55 to recommended ) the loco is smooth down to a crawl & i am very very happy with that. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted May 25, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 25, 2012 Cheers John, I've had a trouble free morning with the 3F i've programmed the decoder & it's giving me a smooth running loco although i am struggling to get more speed steps out of it. I tap my controller & for the first 4 notches it gives me nothing then on the 5th notch up it moves slowly so i am using 2 notches now on the controller to run the loco. It's a start but i want more freedom of control i want it to move from notch 1 on the controller & give me more control but i fear that the Bachmann 21 pin decoder is not the best item to fit in the 3F. I think i might fit a Lenz decoder into the loco because i find they are very good. The real shocker for me yesterday was the Fairburn tank, The Fairburn has a bog standard Bachmann decoder in it but after reading a few things & trying a few things out ( switching off the back EMF & setting CV54 & 55 to recommended ) the loco is smooth down to a crawl & i am very very happy with that. Simon Hi Simon, I agree with you about chip quality being vital - though discussions on this Forum have sometimes tried to discredit the idea! I've got 48 locos chipped: 42 of them have Lenz silver or standard decoders, 5 have pre-fit Bachmann and 1 has a Hornby. The Hornby never worked well from the outset (it is pre-fitted into a 2008 Britannia, and is very difficult to change because the loco body is a beast to remove in one piece). The Bachmann pre-fits are adequate. The Lenz chips work superbly. I'm using a Lenz system, so maybe there is a logic there! This is a great little mini-forum. Talk about us all inspiring ourselves! Best wishes to John, too! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Moore Posted May 25, 2012 Author Share Posted May 25, 2012 This afternoon i took a ride out on the bike into the Dale's, when i need a kick up the bum to get going on the layout i just need to take a trip up to Ribblehead passing Austwick on my travels. Having stopped for epoxy resin on the way into the Dale's i headed off for Ribblehead stopping for a burger & a can of pop. Whilst i was there i caught the Chirk log's train passing over the viaduct heading south & a freightliner coal train also heading south which was a bonus. Having taken in all the views the Dales have to offer i had my kick up the backside that i needed & headed home. After a nice tea i set up the layout & started working on the platform top. I choose to use Will's sheet for the flagstone platform & have found that the result is very good if you take your time. Although i have not finished off the platform i have managed to get some of it done i need to put the roadway in so i can finish off the rest of the platform which is going to be done after the TT. Here is tonight's progress anyway. The platform toping i have done tonight. The Austwick Boniface prepares to head off to Skipton On the DCC front i am still unsure. Today i received my Bachmann J39 & since this is a split chassis model i tested it on the layout with analogue control & with a gaugemaster controller it gave a better result than any of the DCC fitted models & it is edging me right back to my thought the other day. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Moore Posted June 22, 2012 Author Share Posted June 22, 2012 I must admit i have been struggling to get this layout going again & i don't know wether to sell it on as it is or try & get weaving building it again. I do want to build another layout along side this but i don't have the room or the time. The Dcc side of this layout has really got to me i cannot get anything working properly using digital chips & its this thats really stopped me in my tracks. I know that all my dmu's & diesels run perfectly under dcc power & i really don't want to rewire this layout for dc so i am thinking of a new start knowing that what i am doing is going to work first time round. Not sure what to ask for a part finished layout does anyone haveany ideas before i advertise it. It'll come complete with the buildings & trestles. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted June 22, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 22, 2012 I must admit i have been struggling to get this layout going again & i don't know wether to sell it on as it is or try & get weaving building it again. I do want to build another layout along side this but i don't have the room or the time. The Dcc side of this layout has really got to me i cannot get anything working properly using digital chips & its this thats really stopped me in my tracks. I know that all my dmu's & diesels run perfectly under dcc power & i really don't want to rewire this layout for dc so i am thinking of a new start knowing that what i am doing is going to work first time round. Not sure what to ask for a part finished layout does anyone haveany ideas before i advertise it. It'll come complete with the buildings & trestles. Simon Sad to hear that, Simon, but it may be for the best. The last thing you want is to be working on something that's a pain in the neck. It's sometimes easy to forget that this is supposed to be fun... I hope you get sorted soon. Nice to hear from you again. Best wishes, Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Moore Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 I've taken all the decoders out of my steam collection & test run the core of the locos on Austwick. Austwicks going to gets it humpteenth wind there's lots of work to do but I'm going to DC this layout & finish it off. Looking at the layout I need to really improve the trestles I made because there a little flimsy it's not a hard job though thankfully. The next job is to get the control panel built & wired which I don't think will be a major headache if I design it correctly. Jobs I really need to look at too are finishing the back scenes & sorting out the cassettes because the rails buckled & it needs replacing. I'm going to replace the fittings too so that they sit better when connected to the layout. I'm thinking of building a bolt on angle board so the cassettes can rest fully on the layout rather than being locked into the sockets I designed. The main thing is Austwick lives I've not got a lot of time at present so work will be slow but I am going to get the switched fitted to the motor over the weekend so the track works correctly. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted June 26, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 26, 2012 The main thing is Austwick lives Simon Austwick lives! DC or DCC - who cares - as long as it works!! Best wishes, Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Moore Posted June 27, 2012 Author Share Posted June 27, 2012 Your right Jeff who cares its alive & that's the main thing. It's what I needed to get the project going again. Tonight I'm going to start finishing off the cattle dock. Althought I cannot spend large amounts of time on the layout I can get this done overlong a little each night. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted June 27, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 27, 2012 Hi Simon, keep up the good work. Don't worry about using DC, if it's wired for DCC just use 2 wire DC and not common return. It actually makes fault finding easier. The layout looks good and having grown up at Giggleswick I know the area well and am enjoying the thread. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Moore Posted June 27, 2012 Author Share Posted June 27, 2012 Thank you Jamie for the kind comments I've got the enthusiasm back now so it's full steam ahead. I'm driving my forklift this morning & making mental plans for the control panel which I'm going to look at making this weekend I've just enough wood to build it I think. I'm going to get the cattle dock kit out tonight & get weaving with that. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Moore Posted June 27, 2012 Author Share Posted June 27, 2012 Well plans never go as you want !! I was meant to be working on the cattle dock tonight but I've been testing trackwork. I've been having problems with the double slip & it's drove me mad. I've found the problem ( Seep point motor ) they are total garbage & I wouldn't have one thrown at me. Saturday I'm going up to the model shop for 2 Peco motors & the switch that fits on the bottom so my pointwork will work perfectly. I've rummaged through my cupboard to find some scraps of wood to build the control panel this afternoon & I've got what I need. What's got me stumped now is the connection between the panel & the layout. My control panel is going to be made so it's detachable from the layout so it stores better & I've been thinking about maybe something like a scart cable & sockets to connect the 2. So far I've not managed to find a socket that's panel mounted & strong enough to withstand taking up & putting down as its a portable layout. Has anyone any ideas ?? Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted June 27, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 27, 2012 A scart lead sounds like a good idea. The type of socket you need is the type on the back of a video recorder or TV. If you haven't got an old one kicking around that you can scrap try goin g to your local wate site and see if you can salvage one. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Moore Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 That's not a bad idea Jamie. Our local tips closed which is a shame There's a half decent electrical shop in town & a maplins in Blackburn which might be worth a look in on the way to the mother in laws. I will come up with something just a case of getting it right. It just so happens that I need some more decoders for my diesel locos so I'm going to to try a lenz silver 21 pin in the 3f & see if it makes a difference & maybe just maybe it might stay digital. My main aim at the moment is to rid myself of those god awful seep motors because they are AWFUL!!!!!!!!!!! ;D Hopefully this weekend all being well I should have some progress to show even if it's just getting the trackwork running smoothly. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted June 28, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 28, 2012 That's not a bad idea Jamie. Our local tips closed which is a shame There's a half decent electrical shop in town & a maplins in Blackburn which might be worth a look in on the way to the mother in laws. I will come up with something just a case of getting it right. It just so happens that I need some more decoders for my diesel locos so I'm going to to try a lenz silver 21 pin in the 3f & see if it makes a difference & maybe just maybe it might stay digital. My main aim at the moment is to rid myself of those god awful seep motors because they are AWFUL!!!!!!!!!!! ;D Hopefully this weekend all being well I should have some progress to show even if it's just getting the trackwork running smoothly. Simon Go to Tortoises. They never let you down. If you struggle with maplins our club has an account at RS and I could probably sort out the right socket for you. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Moore Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 I'm sticking to peco Jamie I know what I'm doing with them & they work perfectly with there track system. Cheers for the offer Jamie I'll take a look in maplins on Saturday if nothing comes up trumps I'll be in touch Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Moore Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 I've decided to give the layout once last attempt at DCC !! I ordered a Lenz silver 21 pin today & I'm going to test it in the 3F to see if a top flight decoder works. If we're successful with that I shall try a 8 pin silver in the rest of the fleet & if all goes to plan there then I shall purchase more & continue down DCC alley I've not managed much over the weekend but the cattle dock parts are all in primer now ready for painting & full assembly. Simon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted July 2, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 2, 2012 I'll give you credit for persistence, Simon. I built my old layout with DCC and have never had any problems. However, I'm expecting a few teething problems when I get track down for Kirkby Luneside! And speaking of point motors - that's another expense I'll be shelling out on very soon. I hope your Seep replacement and DCC chip mods work out fine. If not, well you've still got DC! Regards, Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Moore Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 Whatever you do Jeff don't use seep motors you will not have a piece of hair left afterwards & you'll have discovered a whole multitude of new swears. I really want to get this running on dcc because it's already wired & geared for dcc operation & I think it would be a shame to waste what I've put in to the layout. The controller & point decoder is somewhere near £200 so it would be a rather expensive waste. It would get re used on another project in the future but it was bought for Austwick & I want it to work too. All being well this weekend I'm going to hook up the layout whip the bodys off the stock for the layout & try the 8 & 21 pin Lenz silvers I have purchased see if that cures it ( I'm hoping it does ) Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted July 3, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 3, 2012 Simon Stick with DC for the point motors. 2 wires to each, 1 switch and it's dead easy to put LED's onto ylur panel fpr route indication if you use 12v DC ones. It's also far quicker to chnge the points. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Moore Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 Well Jamie the points have been the one hassle free item on this layout. Although I have had problems with the point motors themselves switching them has been fine from the off & as simple as flicking a switch. Ian Morton is usually spot on with delivery so I think tomorrow afternoon is decoder testing time & D day at Austwick. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted July 3, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 3, 2012 Will await D-day (D for decoder?) with interest. Thanks for the Seep comments, Simon. I wasn't planning to use them previously and definitely not now! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Moore Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 Yup, Decoder day it is Jeff. They've been posted & having bought previously from Ian they will no doubt be here tomorrow. The layout is set up ready for testing although I do need to dig out a few more locos for testing. If all goes to plan & we get a good run DCC will be the way forward. I've ordered a Dapol home starter signal to give the layout a little bit extra but I'm stuck with where it should go. I was thinking of placing it between the main line & the bay platform but looking at the original Iain Rice plan it shows the only signal near the signal box on the outside of the loop. I'm now not sure where to put the signal & wondered if the bay would need a starter too ?? Simon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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