Live Third Rail Operation

[Gwiwer]

I am interested in opening dialogue with modellers who may have experience of installing and operating a live third-rail powered system with functional pick-up by the rolling stock for a future project.

 

Whether you have tried and failed / given up / put it away for a rainy day / got it running I am interested to discuss methods and thoughts.

 

My interest lies specifically in an SR-themed layout using RtR EMU stock such as the Bachmann Cep and EPB units powered by DC and making use of Code 75 and Individulay track components in the main.

 

My intention is to remove the moulded pick-up shoes and replace them with something sprung lightly downwards and capable of picking up traction current in a prototypical manner. The units would be through-wired to avoid gapping.

 

There is a vast wealth of knowledge and experience out there so ladies and gents it's over to you .....

[noiseboy72]

My experience of 3rd rail was acually 4th rail LU stock. I did try outside rail, but there simply was not enough room (At least not within my skills) to make it work and look good

 

I found the system worked fine on straight track, but sharp curves and anything shorter than long radius points caused the shoes to throw too far and the track look unprototypical. Gapping was not an issue with 3 or 4 shoes, even over a scissors crossover.

 

Track building is the main issue, as you need to work within a very tight tolerance. Easy enough on plain track, but curves and points take some practice!

[AMJ]

At one time on here there was a video of a 508 unit or similar where the doors were controlled via the 3rd rail. If I was running 3rd rail I might consider using it to make a circuit to light a LED by the shoe to give a flash rather than some folks static flashes built into the track.

 

I'd personally not use a live 3rd rail as most modern stock picks up on all wheels and a maximum for a single car would be 2 points compared to 4 wheels. You would also need to ensure that the shoe doesn't go too low and create a short when going through pointwork.

[Ozexpatriate]

I recall that the late John Amstrong (the 'father' of modern US layout planning) used a (non-prototypical and quite unsightly) third rail system in his landmark Canandaigua Southern model railroad.

 

A google search for this led to this forum discussion which perhaps you will find interesting. It's H0, but is similar to your question.

 

I would think that the reliability of trying to create a visually appealing operating third rail would bedevil any attempt. The combined tolerances of the perfect alignment and contact pressure required to maintain a solid connection not to mention sparking and shorting issues while managing connections on alternating sides seem very challenging to me.

[Guest oldlugger]

You may not have seen my layout St. Mary Hoo on here, but this has a live working third rail system. As it's in P4 the problems mentioned above are not an issue due to the scale relationship between the conductor rail and running rail, including curves. My system is to scale, so looks the part and works well too, and is a mixture of scratch built; scalefour society, and Peco parts. I converted my Bachmann 2EPB to two and three rail running earlier this year, with sprung scale collector shoes. The unit still uses two rail, but has the the third rail as an additional power source. I am planning to add a class 71 or 74 to work off my third rail in the same way.

[Gwiwer]

I converted my Bachmann 2EPB to two and three rail running earlier this year, with sprung scale collector shoes. The unit still uses two rail, but has the the third rail as an additional power source.

A neat solution and precisely what I had, privately, though might be the best way to go. I shall take a look at the layout. There are simply too many on here for me to have found it by random chance so thanks for the pointer.

[Guest oldlugger]

Hello Gwiwer,

 

AMJ refers to the possibility of the pick up shoes shorting out on the track as they pass over points; this can happen if the springing device is not set up correctly. One solution is to add simple fine wire retainers to stop the downward movement at a precise point; i.e. low enough to make positive contact on the third rail but high enough to clear the running rails.

 

Cheers

Simon

[Gordon H]

At one time on here there was a video of a 508 unit or similar where the doors were controlled via the 3rd rail.

To clarify...

 

The sliding door power supply is derived from the 3rd rail, but controlled by an IR Remote Control link to ensure the doors can only be opened when in range of the IR transmitter - i.e. when the train is in the platform.

 

Some other units which run on the layout use the 3rd rail as a power source for internal lighting only, so they extinguish temporarily as the trains traverse gaps.

 

The original video is still located here: http://s82.photobuck...nt=NONAME20.mp4