Slaters 6-wheeled milk tank wagons

[Trevor H]

Trevor

 

Thanks for your very helpful post and the photos - loved those class 22s and the close-ups of the milk tankers. Very nice.

 

My other problem is that my time period is fairly wide - 1964 (so I can run my 74xx pannier) up to about 1971 (if only to run my early BR blue Hymek) - hasten to add, I won't be running the pannier and the blue Hymek at the same time! So my wagons need to be in paint schemes and lettering within this seven year period. Most BR stock won't be a problem as 1950s lettering still appeared well into the 1970s but I just need to be careful with private owner wagons. As you say, working from photographs of the prototype is the safest option.

Hi,

 

I must admit to the pictures of the milk tanks and D63xx's are actually from when i dabbled in "Gauge One" a few years back, so not truly 7mm but the kit was identical and I thought I'd post them, to show with a bit of work what variations were possible, even the 2000 gallon version started life as a 3000 gallon tank.

 

The plates are available in 7mm and G1 from Slaters in "Express Dairy" and "United Dairies", other variations of plate not done by Slaters are "United Dairies (W) Ltd" and also the Unigate Creameries carried the wagon number on the plate without the regional prefix letter, for example "Unigate Creameries Ltd 44510", hope this helps.

 

If you can pull yourself away from Hemyock, I know its not easy! The West Wales area of Aberaeron, Lampeter & Newcastle Emlyn can be a very interesting area to model with it mixed trains. Also as added bonus, the 74xx pannier ran the line right up to their demise in 1964.

 

Morfa Mawr in 4mm, my representation of West Wales.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Trevor H

[Karhedron]

If you can pull yourself away from Hemyock, I know its not easy! The West Wales area of Aberaeron, Lampeter & Newcastle Emlyn can be a very interesting area to model with it mixed trains. Also as added bonus, the 74xx pannier ran the line right up to their demise in 1964.

I holiday in the area every year and it is a lovely place with the occasional bit of railway infrastructure still in place. I sometimes wonder how long the line would have lasted if not for the floods in 64. Doubtless the Beeching axe would still have fallen as the majority of photos I have seen show 3 coach trains and most stations with single-figure number of passengers.

 

Still it is as charming a cross-country route as one could wish to find and very modellable. I know that there was a creamery at Felin Fach on the Aberaeron Branch but I have not been able to find any pictures of it or of trains serving it. Any pointers would be welcome.

[Trevor H]

'Lifting the Hem line' (Railways Illustrated, October 2011) totally supports that belief Brian quoting '2140' being the first in September 1963. The article also features some cracking blue diesel era colour photos of 22s (63xx) and 25/0s; plus a black and white of Hymek 'D7005' with small warning panel/white cab window surrounds on empty tanks on Feb 14 1971. Can't see whether there's a solebar stripe so the Hymek could either still be in green or maybe (my favourite) 'chromatic' blue? Any livery specialists know which it was?

It would be in GSY, it carried this livery to the end. D7003 in GSY was also seen at Hemyock on 9th Nov 1971.

 

Some lovely inspirational shots of 'The Milkie' on the Highbridge Branch here Stephen, plus more delightful short branch freights on the pages to which this one's linked. There IS a shot of an 03 hauling two BR standard brake vans en-route from Bridgwater to Highbridge to collect the milk from Bason Bridge on 16 June 1966 at the bottom of the page but I can't find the pic' I'm sure I've seen of the return working ...wish I'd bookmarked it!

Another shot of class 03's at Tiverton Jct on Roberts excellent site.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/2170153912/in/photostream/

 

D2133 would later be sold in 1969 to "British Cellophane" in Bridgewater.

[Trevor H]

I holiday in the area every year and it is a lovely place with the occasional bit of railway infrastructure still in place. I sometimes wonder how long the line would have lasted if not for the floods in 64. Doubtless the Beeching axe would still have fallen as the majority of photos I have seen show 3 coach trains and most stations with single-figure number of passengers.

 

Still it is as charming a cross-country route as one could wish to find and very modellable. I know that there was a creamery at Felin Fach on the Aberaeron Branch but I have not been able to find any pictures of it or of trains serving it. Any pointers would be welcome.

I know what you mean, I use to spend quite a lot of time in the area, not everyones cup of tea but I always enjoyed it.

 

If you have an interest, "The Lampeter, Aberayron and New Quay Light Railway" by Oakwood Press no. 191.

http://www.amazon.co...s/dp/0853617147

 

It's one of their soft cover books, but has all the history of the line, good selection of photos including Felin Fach , with a selection of maps and schematic track plans. Very readable book as my well thumbed copy over the years is now showing.

 

And another from Middleton Press.

http://www.amazon.co...e/dp/1906008906

Edited January 6, 2012 by Trevor H

[David Siddall]

Not a livery expert but I have seen a shot of a green hymek on the Hemtock branch, not sure if it is 7005 or not but I am not sure if Hymeks were frequent visitors to the branch.

I know it's wandering off-topic a tad but Hymeks at Hemyock are an interesting distraction while I wait to see how long it takes Butanone to secure moulded chairs to plywood sleepers :-)

 

The Oct 2011 Railways Illustrated article suggests that they were quite frequent visitors. Quote: "...(Hymeks) made more and more appearances if one was available at Exeter".

 

D

[Warspite]

Crikey, this thread just gets better and better.

 

I now have a rationale to run at least three different versions of Slaters 6-wheel milk tankers together with my Hymek and my 74xx.

 

I'm not sure I can take all of this in! In fact, my wife has just said "this is getting out of hand"! (That's maybe because she has just seen how much three Slaters milk tankers cost and that Bristol is now on the calendar!

 

Will respond to all this later but dinner calls!

 

 

Stephen

[Karhedron]

If you have an interest, "The Lampeter, Aberayron and New Quay Light Railway" by Oakwood Press no. 191.

http://www.amazon.co...s/dp/0853617147

Thanks for the tip, I have ordered a copy.

[3 link]

I had better get in touch with David White, as I'm after another 6 wheeled tanker at Bristol. There must be a run on them at the mo, as at Reading in December they had run out before I got to their stall and I ended up buying one from Tower models at the same price.

 

ATB, Martyn.

[Warspite]

I had better get in touch with David White, as I'm after another 6 wheeled tanker at Bristol. There must be a run on them at the mo, as at Reading in December they had run out before I got to their stall and I ended up buying one from Tower models at the same price.

 

ATB, Martyn.

Martyn

 

I've now got this vision of a rush of RMweb members buying up all the Slaters' 6 wheel tankers at Bristol ........ a bit like the first day of the January sales!

 

 

Stephen

[Warspite]

'Lifting the Hem line' (Railways Illustrated, October 2011) totally supports that belief Brian quoting '2140' being the first in September 1963. The article also features some cracking blue diesel era colour photos of 22s (63xx) and 25/0s; plus a black and white of Hymek 'D7005' with small warning panel/white cab window surrounds on empty tanks on Feb 14 1971. Can't see whether there's a solebar stripe so the Hymek could either still be in green or maybe (my favourite) 'chromatic' blue? Any livery specialists know which it was? The article also states '5530' ('31112') worked the milk tanks to Hemyock on October 31 1973 and that the line was given an official loading restriction for class 37s!!! Apparently the line enjoyed a much greater variety of motive power in its final days than during the steam era when it was the preserve of a regular 14xx, '1451' (occasionally subbed by '1405')!

 

Some lovely inspirational shots of 'The Milkie' on the Highbridge Branch here Stephen, plus more delightful short branch freights on the pages to which this one's linked. There IS a shot of an 03 hauling two BR standard brake vans en-route from Bridgwater to Highbridge to collect the milk from Bason Bridge on 16 June 1966 at the bottom of the page but I can't find the pic' I'm sure I've seen of the return working ...wish I'd bookmarked it!

 

I know I said I wouldn't be looking 'till tonight but I'm taking an early-doors Friday. One of the benefits of self-employment ...though I will have to give myself a verbal warning later for skiving ;-)

David

 

Thanks for posting this link. Some great photos there. The Highbridge branch is another one of those 'special' lines especially because of its S&D origins and Bason Bridge survived after the S&D closed because of its connection to the WR main line at Highbridge. Talking of Hymeks, there is a photo of D7017 at Bason Bridge on the 1630 milk train from Taunton in "Past and Present: Somerset".

 

Completely off-topic, there is a lovely walk along the remains of the Highbridge branch from Ashcott to Shapwick in the Somerset levels. This area is now a RSPB reserve and home to thousands of starlings!

 

 

Stephen

[Warspite]

If you can pull yourself away from Hemyock, I know its not easy! The West Wales area of Aberaeron, Lampeter & Newcastle Emlyn can be a very interesting area to model with it mixed trains. Also as added bonus, the 74xx pannier ran the line right up to their demise in 1964.

 

Morfa Mawr in 4mm, my representation of West Wales.

Trevor

 

You're not making things any easier for me! I've now got Fairford, Hemyock, Highbridge and West Wales on my list of possible locations! Hemyock and Bason Bridge (much as I love them) are probably ruled out because of the 74xx pannier although both saw Hymeks and 03s. Of course if Dapol do eventually produce a D63xx in 7mm, I need to cover my bets. So the decider could be, did the D63xx's/class 22s operate in this area of West Wales (Aberaeron, Lampeter & Newcastle Emlyn) as well as 74xx's and Hymeks? I must admit I keep looking at the photos of the area in my 'Power of the Hymeks'. Could well be persuaded ..........

 

Stephen

 

P.S. Nice pic of your Morfa Mawr layout.

[Trevor H]

Thanks for the tip, I have ordered a copy.

No problem,

 

Did you see the link to the Middleton Press book I added later, on the Aberystwyth to Camarthen line, which includes Aberaeron and Newcastle Emlyn.

 

Only came across it after and haven't seen it myself, but I feel a purchase coming my way.

 

[Trevor H]

Trevor

 

You're not making things any easier for me! I've now got Fairford, Hemyock, Highbridge and West Wales on my list of possible locations! Hemyock and Bason Bridge (much as I love them) are probably ruled out because of the 74xx pannier although both saw Hymeks and 03s. Of course if Dapol do eventually produce a D63xx in 7mm, I need to cover my bets. So the decider could be, did the D63xx's/class 22s operate in this area of West Wales (Aberaeron, Lampeter & Newcastle Emlyn) as well as 74xx's and Hymeks? I must admit I keep looking at the photos of the area in my 'Power of the Hymeks'. Could well be persuaded ..........

 

Stephen

 

P.S. Nice pic of your Morfa Mawr layout.

Hi Stephen,

 

No afraid D63xx's didn't get that deep into Wales and for that reason alone I'd probably go for a South West location. As I'm sure an O gauge model of a D63xx is going to appear at sometime, can it really be ignored, for its size is perfect for 7mm modelling.

 

Have you thought of perhaps somewhere on the Torrington line with its china clays, or are you looking more at doing a dairy location.

 

Trevor.

[Warspite]

Hi Stephen,

 

No afraid D63xx's didn't get that deep into Wales and for that reason alone I'd probably go for a South West location. As I'm sure an O gauge model of a D63xx is going to appear at sometime, can it really be ignored, for its size is perfect for 7mm modelling.

 

Have you thought of perhaps somewhere on the Torrington line with its china clays, or are you looking more at doing a dairy location.

 

Trevor.

Trevor

 

That's a shame. I've just been looking at the area around Pencader Junction and up to Lampeter on Google Earth and you can still see traces of the line - field boundaries, tree lines etc.

 

I have considered Torrington, in fact the area was my first choice after I got my Hymek. The area around Meeth and Peters Marland is fascinating - that interesting mix of rural industry and beautiful countryside. Fremington Quay would make a great model - I've seen a photo of a green class 31 here as well as D63xx's and Hymeks. My downfall is that I couldn't resist that Lionheart 74xx and need to find a prototype area where I could legitimately run it, hence Fairford. Another option could be somewhere like Bovey Tracey as 74xx's were allocated to Newton Abbot. But then, people (well David Siddall!) started talking about 6-wheel milk tankers and I haven't looked back since!

 

So, to summarise, I would like, if possible, to find a location where I could run:

 

74xx (1964 ish)

Hymek (1969-71)

16 ton mineral wagons (plus an odd 21 ton mineral hopper but that's probably pushing it)

BR 12-ton vans

Ex-GWR and LMS 6-wheeled milk tankers

 

Oh, and a couple of Presflos! (I've just posted a photo of the JLTRT one I built on the gallery and on my layout thread.)

 

 

Stephen

Edited January 6, 2012 by Warspite

[David Siddall]

With that stock list I'd suggest you've got an almost inexhaustible list of 'might-have been' locations... according to a quick bit of research principle depot allocations for Hymeks were Bristol (Bath Road), Cardiff (Canton), Newton Abbot and Old Oak Common. Chuck 22s into the mix and you can add Plymouth (Laira) to that list. If you add known 74xx allocations my guess your options cover anywhere between the West Midlands, the eastern Cotswolds and Cornwall!

 

However... if you want rural with heavy industry and major construction projects in unexpected rural locations through the 60s and early 70s (such as might explain the presence of the Presflos) that suggests somewhere between Bristol and Newton Abbot along the M5 corridor as the A38 was upgraded and the motorway was pushed westwards. Have a look at the area between Exeter and Newton Abbot, and at the Heathfield area north of Newton Abbot in particular. The remains of the Bovey Tracey/Mortenhamstead branches and the Teign Valley Line were surprisingly long-lived. There was a big creamery close by at Totnes and Newton Abbot had its own coal-fired power station (a mini version of Battersea), a large goods yard and there were numerous stone quarries to the north east towards Exeter. OK, I'll admit to a bit of bias here as this was the area in which I grew up and spent countless hours spotting between 1967 to 1975/6 - either perched on the low roadside wall overlooking the western end of Newton Abbot station; or for an even better vantage point dodging staff in the Motorail terminal at the eastern end. My two other favourite locations (easily bikeable) were the occupation bridge by the the signal gantry at Aller Junction (...I'll never get used to it now be referred to as a 'divergeance'), and the little over-bridge by the 'down' goods loop 'starter' at the foot of Dainton Bank.

 

Another strong contender I'd suggest, particularly if you want to keep your former LMS milk tanks closer to home and justify everything else on your list would be to a location within a triangle drawn with its eastern corner at Gloucester, its western corner at Chepstow and its northern point at say Ross-on-Wye. They say all sorts of things go on in the Forest of Dean and in railway historical terms it seems that they almost certainly did. Coal, stone, dairy produce, industry and construction plus anything else you care (or dare) to think of!

 

Both of these areas comfortably avoid doing either South Devon or Cotswold 'cute' and would be great contenders for the scenario you're creating ;-)

 

D

 

PS: I've lived in and around Monmouth for the last 20 years or so, so the latter area comes recommended on the basis of local historical research of which there's boatloads available - including contemporary video on YouTube.

Edited January 7, 2012 by David Siddall

[Warspite]

David

 

Ah, happy days, driving to Hemerdon and Dainton on summer Saturdays in the 1970s/1980s. Sadly, the Westerns were at the end of their days by this time but seeing (and hearing) class 50s throbbing up the Devon banks was a pretty good substitute. Dainton was probably my favourite where you could clearly see the steepness of the bank. I've visited Heathfield in more recent times when it was still shipping ball clay.

 

I remember seeing a book about railways in the Forest of Dean - I cannot remember the title but it was quite a thick hardback book (i.e. not Middleton Press), possibly OPC. What I was surprised about was the degree of industry in such a seemingly rural area with (I think) colliery and quarry railways. I once quite fancied modelling somewhere like Tintern Quarry. Thanks for the tip - I'll do some more research of this area.

 

 

Stephen

[David Siddall]

Ah, happy days, driving to Hemerdon and Dainton on summer Saturdays in the 1970s/1980s.

Happy days indeed... there's only one word I can use to describe a work-weary Hall attempting to start a heavy freight after being held in the loop at the foot of Dainton and that's 'volcanic'! The 22xx banker being thrashed senseless on the back was pretty impressive too. Pairs of 'Warships' and later single 'Westerns' being caned up the bank with 13 fully-laden Mk1s in tow on those summer Saturdays you mention (particularly if they got checked at the Aller Junction gantry) were also an awe-inspiring experience. The bridge in this pic' was my favourite vantage point - just as I remember it even though this shot claims to have been taken in the 50s (...the comment which accompanies it about the loop's removal seems a bit odd too as I recall it being in place in the late 60s, possibly even the early 70s :-)

 

I once quite fancied modelling somewhere like Tintern Quarry. Thanks for the tip - I'll do some more research of this area.

Tintern was definitely a Hymek haunt as late as 1971 and here's the evidence - 7094 in blue with full yellow ends on ballast hoppers: www.railphotoprints.co.uk/index/detail/12740/D7094-Y-NetherhopeHalt-050571-DCC390.jpg.html

 

And here are some nice Tintern Station shots from earlier days including Pannier 6439: www.urban75.org/photos/wales/tintern.html

 

I'll see if I can find some local evidence for milk traffic.

 

D

Edited January 8, 2012 by David Siddall

[David Siddall]

I remember seeing a book about railways in the Forest of Dean...

It's a surprisingly well-covered area... Amazon currently lists quite a few titles to tempt you :-)

 

D

Edited January 8, 2012 by David Siddall

[cromptonnut]

I know that it's a little after your specific period but I'm guessing nobody does a kit of the TMV milk tank wagons?

 

When were the tanks as portrayed in the Slaters kits removed from service? The TMV's came in during the early 80's and I remember seeing a rake at Chard Junction which I don't think ever got used before being dragged off for scrap.

Edited January 8, 2012 by cromptonnut

[Donw]

The best book on the Forest of Dean are the Ian Pope ones I have three 0n the S+W plus two on the FOD lines so it can wallop your wallet. I used to discuss all the bits I found wandering around the forest with Ian and was impressed with the extent of his knowledge. However I cannot think of any dairy traffic in the forest. Apart from that it is a fascinating area with extensive freight. A lot of things have disappeared. If you follow the cycle track from Coleford down to the remains of Mushet iron works its strange to realise that you have past the site of the titanic steels works which has left little trace.

Don

[Fat Controller]

I know that it's a little after your specific period but I'm guessing nobody does a kit of the TMV milk tank wagons?

 

When were the tanks as portrayed in the Slaters kits removed from service? The TMV's came in during the early 80's and I remember seeing a rake at Chard Junction which I don't think ever got used before being dragged off for scrap.

The original style of 6-wheel tanks went in the mid 1970s. The chassis of some were re-used a few years later for new tanks for the MMB, along with some 4-wheel 45t Monobloc oil tanks. The idea behind these tanks was not for deliveries to bottling plants in London, like their predecessors, but to transfer milk between creameries to cover over-production and shortfalls, presumably for those plants which specialised in butter or cheese manufacture. As you say, they probably never ran in revenue service.

[David Siddall]

However I cannot think of any dairy traffic in the forest.

Whilst it's not 'the Forest' as such this photo shows a pair of tanks stabled on the 'up' side at Severn Tunnel Junction:http://trainsferriesbuses.co.uk/fast35stj.jpg. Slightly further west this shot was taken at Cardiff: http://trainsferriesbuses.co.uk/7092milk.jpg. Both photos show Hymeks in blue with full yellow ends which should suggest the period.

[Fat Controller]

Whilst it's not 'the Forest' as such this photo shows a pair of tanks stabled on the 'up' side at Severn Tunnel Junction:http://trainsferries...k/fast35stj.jpg. Slightly further west this shot was taken at Cardiff: http://trainsferries...uk/7092milk.jpg. Both photos show Hymeks in blue with full yellow ends which should suggest the period.

The ones in the first shot, at STJ, are probably part of the Severn Tunnel rescue train, which was stabled in the Up bay in those days.

[Karhedron]

Not sure if this is the right place but does anyone know of a comprehensive list of rail-served dairies and creameries?

[Mike Boucher]

Sorry for the slight diversion, but I love this photo: I don't remember where I got it from, but I really want to get the rolling stock to be able to replicate this photo in 7mm...

 

 

I've already got Slater's kits for the 3 3000 gal tankers, only problem is that I got the transfers for the blue "Express Dairies" scheme, which doesn't seem to be correct for this photo. Need to get a 2000 gal, and Slaters also does the clerestory brake van. As I've always liked black 5s, that was already on my wish list...