robbostrains Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Thought I'd ask this in this part of the forum,seem to get more response!Would like to add some "sounds" to my non DCC HO American switching layout.Bought a sound unit off E-BAY but not really happy with it.Just sounds as if the loco noise is coming from the speakers not the loco.Also when you watch actual switching on YOU-TUBE there's the sounds of the wagons screeching along.Even on DCC sound locos you don't get that effect.Any one got any ideas on this? PS, HAPPY NEW YEAR!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Look on Ebay.com for MRC Diesel synchro soundbox (note they also did a steam one and a version for steam and diesel) These are OOP but still available. A pair of speakers under the layout, or a set of the amplified computer speakers with a sub-woofer will work - in fact I doubt you will EVER be able to run it with the volume turned up - your ears will bleed! They also now do a dc version that has a sound facility and runs DCC liococ on DC but with the sound available. There are 4 of the Steam/diesel on there as I type - expect to pay around $50 + postage This is a more recent, but not the latest one Item number: 220927402054 The description tells you about the sounds available Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Thought I'd ask this in this part of the forum,seem to get more response!Would like to add some "sounds" to my non DCC HO American switching layout.Bought a sound unit off E-BAY but not really happy with it.Just sounds as if the loco noise is coming from the speakers not the loco.Also when you watch actual switching on YOU-TUBE there's the sounds of the wagons screeching along.Even on DCC sound locos you don't get that effect.Any one got any ideas on this? PS, HAPPY NEW YEAR!! Dear Robbo, You've asked a few big questions there, lets see if we can't cut them down to size... You mention adding sound to the _layout_, not just the loco. This is a key thing in my mind, and should be heeded. Starting with the loco however, as it tends to be a focal point... - Yes, "analog" sound systems for locos have been available since the 1970's. They weren't great by todays standards, but they do exist. - Yes, many existing DCC sound decoders will "produce sound on analog". IE you do not need DCC on the rails in order for the loco to make noise "in/on the loco". THe downside is that such locos often eat up to 9VDC of the rail voltage just powering up the audio poweramp and suchlike, before actually starting to move. This can be problematic for a switching layout, as it compresses the entire mechanical speed range of the mech into the top maybe 60 degrees of throttle speed knob rotation, (Think about trying to control a 150mph-capable racecar, with only 1 gear for the entire 0-150 speed range, and a accellerator pedal which only moves 1 inch from "stop" to "full throttle". Makes it reall hard to take off from a standing start, and stay at 20mph!) - I echo Jack's reccomendation, the MRC "sound box" is a great solution, cheap, and with strategic placement of the speaker(s) on a small (<6' wide) scene can quite easily fool most ears as far as "is the sound actually coming from the loco"... (of course it won't _actually_ be a dead-accurate point-source, but the _impression, esp up close, will be acceptable). - If you're looking for a solution which gives *- the "quality" of DCC onboard sound (the term "quality" is used advisedly) *- allows the sound to be "onboard" the loco (better "point-source" impression *- and yet maintains "analog" control of the loco May I suggest you check the "soundbug" decoders by Digitrax? They are "sound only" decoders, and are intended amongst other things to simply be connected in parallel with the motor of an analog loco, and provide "onboard sound". - As a side note, here's one trick I've seen deployed with some success. *- obtain cheap DCC control system *- obtain 1 x Tsunami or similar sound decoder *- mount decoder under layout, *- connect DCC system Booster outputs _directly_ to decoder "rail inputs" (IE NO TRACK inbetween booster and decoder!) *- Connect decoder _MOTOR_ outputs to rails/"Track buss" (IE treat the layout wiring as you would a regular analog layout, and the motor outputs of the decoder as the "track outputs" of your regular analog throttle) *- wire nice full-range speaker rig to "audio output" of decoder Result: You have a layout which is effectively _analog_ as far as the locos are concerned (IE there is a 0-12VDC voltage on the rails, just as with a regular analog throttle) - but features the current "state of the art" DCC sound system, with better speakers/frequency reproduction than most any truly "onboard DCC" sound installation you could think of Now, having gotten clear of the loco, lets talk about the rest of your questions. - "Ambient" or "Layout Sound" is very do-able, quite simply. It can fill the (auditory) gaps in various onboard and "Sound FX" on the rest of the layout, and signifcantly improve the overall presentation. - Super simple solution, grab a suitable "layout sound CD", a discman and a pair of PC multimedia speakers, and you're ready to go. Where can you get such CDs? May I suggest http://www.fantasonics.com ... or more specifically http://www.fantasonics.com/store/cd.html The "Yard sounds" CD would probably be your best bet from the description given. Even though the sound won't inherrently "follow the action", it will give both "supporting loco" and various "rollingstock in motion/being switched" sounds for ambience... - Variation on a theme, who said it had to be a CD player? MP3 players are cheap, and can do a equally good job as "ambient sound" players... - taken furthur, even the most well-designed commercial soundtrack has to be 'generic' enough to work for most modellers. If your personal requirements run a bit more specific, then it is entirely possible for you to create your own "layout soundtrack", create a CD or MP3 file of the result, and deploy as above. (FREE audio-editing apps such as Audacity make it possible for all, and if you've got enough PC skills to post here, and a vaguely functional set of ears, you can operate Audacity). For more info, I'd suggest checking out the LayoutSound group on Yahoogroups... (Full disclosure: I'm one of the Moderators of the LayoutSound group :-) ). - For "wagon specific" sound, there are a few options, again depending on how hardcore you wish to get... *- as above, suitably deployed "ambience" tracks can emulate most classification-yard "car movement" sounds *- for location/occurance-specific sounds such as the stacato racket of wheels over multiple diamond crossings, or the flange-squeal of a particularly tight industrial spur, a triggerable sound module such as those by ITTC or the DreamPlayer can give "sound as required" effects, localised to a given area in the scene. *- If you _really_ want to get fancy, it is entirely possible to cover car-specific sounds such as onboard refrigerator units (see http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/28008-diy-mech-reefer-sound-unit-circuit/ ) using MP3 players, and even triggerable "wheel flatspot" and "auto flange squeal" effects using the above-mentioned Digitrax "sound only" decoders (see recent threads in the afore-mentioned LayoutSound yahoogroup). NB that all above "car effects" do not _require_ DCC to operate! They are all "analog compatible"! (Although, it must be admited that running them on DCC does allow more "user trigger-on-demand" interaction...) In short, for Layout and Onboard (Both Loco _and_ Car!) sound effects, what you're asking is entirely possible. Whether the effort required to make it happen to the level _your_ ears deem acceptable is worth it, that's up to you... ;-) Hope this Helps... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr PS Note Well that just because we're talking about simultaneously composing and deploying _multiple_ sound sources, does _not_ mean that we are _inevitably_ going to create an intolerable maelstrom of noise! With judicious (read: _sane_ ) use of the sound design tools and playback volume controls, it is entirely possible to simulate (for example) a NY city industrial block, complete with train switching movements, homeless guys, and an abandoned-warehouse "rave party", and stay _under_ an actual 60dB SPL @ 1metre (that's quieter than most of you have your TV volume while watching the news...) PPS before deploying or installing _any_ "Layout sound" equipment, have a _Good_Read_ of this... http://www.fantasonics.com/manual.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbostrains Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 Thanks Jack,had a look at some of the other posts about this subject.Positioning of the speakers might help.Might record some background sounds to play ,plenty on You tube.Can't really afford any stuff off E-Bay at the moment!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbostrains Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 Big thank you to Prof Klyzir,plenty to think about there.Always seem to get more replies on "USA & Canadian Railroads"Do you think there's a bit of us and them sometimes with the UK outline boys? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I'd second the MRC Diesel Soundbox; I use it myself on my O Scale "Schiller Point" layout, and at the TVNAM Show last year, with the usual background "hubbub", using under-board speakers it was almost as effective as loco-mounted DCC sound. It also has other sounds besides horns and bells, such as brake release, flange squeal, coupler clash, dynamic brakes etc. Most of them are lost in a noisy exhibition, but okay at home. The diesel sound is a bit 'generic' of course, and there's no start-up sequence, but then you're not paying out the same sort of money as a Tsunami/QSI decoder, either.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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