jonathan452 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Bought this edition tonight at WH Smith Waterloo. I'll leave it to others to list the contents of the magazine and comment on their take regarding the Hornby 2012 releases. (Although noting that they also queried Hornby's research with the strange mix of de-branded Virgin Mk3 coaches.) However I'm afraid I found a glaring error in the British Rail TOPS era 'Deltic' train formations (Pages XVIII and XIX) - Mk2e coaches. I believe that Mk2e coaches did not ever feature in East Coast air-conditioned train formations, they were either Mk2d or Mk2f (the latter from 1973). Furthermore (at least during the British Rail period) Mk2e coaches 'may not be heated by Class 55 locomotives'. I was rather surprised at this mistake. Can anybody add any further comments to this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon020 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Jonathan, That does seem to be a contradiction, although I've not found the comment about not heating Mk2es by the 55 in the article - I'll look again though. However, the last para pn page 94 does state that a quantity of Mk2es and 2fs found their way to the ECML in the second half of the 70s... so maybe there isn't a mistake here - I presume you're refering to the train formation dated 02.78, with "2es" at 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th position in the 11 car rake? If they couldn't be heated I'd not want to be in one of those coaches at that time of year - does heated mean "heated" or air conditioned? Seperately, as I only picked mine up at lunchtime today, I've only glanced through the pages - plenty of 55 material to keep my interest there though. The comments regarding the current Bachmann model has been noted... and hints taken. Brian Daniels has done a nice job on a Heljan O gauge... giving 55013 (another Brian's favourite)... and it certainly improves the look of the Heljan basic offering... but it could really benefit from quite a bit of work. A good little article from Simon and Terry on P4'ing locos - a 33 in this case - nicely explained; i must get myself a back-to-back gauge! some good "News reviews" as always - incluidng a new Lifecolour set of "blacks". Enough prototype stuff in there to keep me current IMHO... and keep interest in the modern scene alive. A good read... worth a purchase... but that's just my opinion. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted January 20, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2012 Hi all, A great cover shot... cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Griffin Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 becoming to much like RAIL for my liking, comparing it to last feb's issue, there are less pictures, less 'nostalgia' features. may swap my mag for railway magazine from now on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan452 Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 Jonathan, That does seem to be a contradiction, although I've not found the comment about not heating Mk2es by the 55 in the article - I'll look again though. However, the last para pn page 94 does state that a quantity of Mk2es and 2fs found their way to the ECML in the second half of the 70s... so maybe there isn't a mistake here - I presume you're refering to the train formation dated 02.78, with "2es" at 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th position in the 11 car rake? If they couldn't be heated I'd not want to be in one of those coaches at that time of year - does heated mean "heated" or air conditioned? The quote about Mk2e's 'may not be heated by Class 55 locomotives' comes from my 1980 Coaching Stock Pocket Book. (This restriction also applied to the Mk2d BFK's, FK's and FO's which were originally allocated to the LMR.) Regarding the last paragraph pn Page 94 Simon Bendall has got this wrong because only Mk2d and Mk2f coaches were allocated to the East Coast from 1971/73 respectively until 1979 NOT Mk2e's. After 1979 a rump of the Mk2d's (only) were retained for the Kings Cross to York/Hull semi fasts. Looking again at the TOPS era air conditioned train formations I would have thought that more of them between 1973/4 and 1979 would included some MK2f's (NOT Mk2e's), particularly that one which could possibly be the up Newcastle Executive. I shall try and contact Simon Bendall in due course over this before the mistake mainfests itself in their forthcoming train formations book. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon020 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 The quote about Mk2e's 'may not be heated by Class 55 locomotives' comes from my 1980 Coaching Stock Pocket Book. (This restriction also applied to the Mk2d BFK's, FK's and FO's which were originally allocated to the LMR.) Regarding the last paragraph pn Page 94 Simon Bendall has got this wrong because only Mk2d and Mk2f coaches were allocated to the East Coast from 1971/73 respectively until 1979 NOT Mk2e's. After 1979 a rump of the Mk2d's (only) were retained for the Kings Cross to York/Hull semi fasts. Looking again at the TOPS era air conditioned train formations I would have thought that more of them between 1973/4 and 1979 would included some MK2f's (NOT Mk2e's), particularly that one which could possibly be the up Newcastle Executive. I shall try and contact Simon Bendall in due course over this before the mistake mainfests itself in their forthcoming train formations book. Jonathan, thanks for the extra clarification. I'm sure Simon would welcome the constructive comment. I think this subject could go further - like why restrict operations to prevent 55s powering 2e's, if the ECML didn't have any 2e's? Belt and braces? Was there a voltage difference.? I'll need to look through some recent DEMU Update mags that covered some of this stock in detail... there will be a reason, I know... would be nice to pinpoint what it was. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold mcowgill Posted January 21, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 21, 2012 My 1978 RCTS Coaching Stock book & 1979 Platform 5 books both indicate that Mk2D FO 3189-3216, Mk2D FK 13585-13610, Mk2D BFK 14162-72 and all Mk2E stock was not to be heated by Class 55 or 47401-420. Looks like there was a difference between the ER Mk2D and the LM allocated MK2Ds and all Mk2E stock. Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan452 Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 Just been going through my copy of British Rail Mk2 Coaches (The design that launched InterCity) by Michael Harris. This is where Simon Bendall may have sourced some of his information from. First of all it mentions on page 75 that the LMR Mk2d's were unable to take an 800 volt train supply from Class 47s Nos 47401-20 as mentioned above by mcowgill (although the Deltics are not mentioned). Also I detect a possible mistake in the mini table on page 86 concerning the Mk2e FO's 'E'3264-75 and TSO's 'E'5880-5907. The text on page 84 (second paragraph) does not suggest any of the Mk2e's were allocated to the ER (WR and LMR only). Futhermore the detailed list on page 163 shows that the above mentioned TSO's all originally had an LMR allocation. During my 'teenage spotting days' at Kings Cross in the mid to late seventies I never recall seeing a Mk2e coach (I spent as much time looking at the coaches as the locomotives). To this end I can also confirm that the Mk2a first class coaches had orangey/red coloured folding gangway doors, not lime green as on the second class vehicles (there was a long debate some time back with Bachmann over this one). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon020 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Jonathan..., you've done you're reseach there, and I hope that we are all able to learn from this; I wonder if we ever met at the platform end all those years ago... I was another Jonathan, probably with my younger brother and Dad encouraging all of this. Many happy days there... that have clearly resuled in rekindled memories that have inspired some modelling projects. If the article has this as a fault, I hope it won't detract from the overall work that's been done... which as a Deltic fan suited me for a read ... Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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