philiprporter Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I'm currently about half way through building an n-gauge layout based on the Eastern portal of Standedge tunnel on the Leeds-Liverpool line and now that scenic work is finally 'getting there' I need to start buying some stock. My problem is that I have very limited knowledge of freight stock that may have run on this line in the late 1970's/early 1980's - I can obviously see freight trains in photos, but the real issue is relating what is in the photographs to the products available for sale from Dapol/Farish/Peco etc. and buying the right stock in the right livery. Although the Farish/Bachmann era system helps a little, it is a fairly blunt instrument - for example, it seems that some freight stock spans several of the Farish/Bachmann eras, but on their website the maximum number of eras for a wagon (for example) is usually only 2. Coaches are no issue as I really only have the blue-grey MK1's and air con MK2's to choose from at present (I've yet to find an image of MK3 stock on this route). I also want to ask a question relating to this which is probably so basic I am embarrased to ask, but the research I have conducted to date has left me utterly confused - so, deep breath - when do I need a guards van on a train and for what stock - or indeed do I need one at all for the era I am modelling? I have to apologise for asking this question, as an RMWeb member very kindly provided links to some relevant n-gauge freight products on the Hattons website a few years back when I was writing a former RMWeb challenge entry and first presented this layout, but the posts no longer exist on the old RMWeb pages. Having said this, it would only partially addresses my questions above if I were to find this post. Many thanks for any information that anyone has that may help me. Best wishes, Phil. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 This period is very much the time the older vacuum and unbraked services were being run down. There were still unfitted or part unfitted freights that would require brake vans, but air brake and most vacuum braked trains (assuming they had no more than a few piped wagons in a train) would not need brake vans. After the demise of unbraked freights the only services that kept brake vans were those carrying dangerous goods (largely nuclear traffic) and services that involved substantial propelling movements. For vacuum-fitted vans most would be the various BR standard types (plywood and planked vanfits and vanwides) and would also have TOPS codes applied (not necessarily in the full corporate manner in white-painted boxes). A lot of the stock could be built from the former Parkwood Models range (now being absorbed into the N Gauge society kit range) along with several of the Peco kits. Without going and looking at the appropriate books, it's hard to be more specific. The late '70s/early '80s also saw the spread of the 'Speedlink' network with its bold grey and flame red livery, often mixed with specific Private Owner flows. I believe that Freightliner trains were also used on the Standedge route; you can use older Freightliner liveries certainly up to the 'flagship' red/white version and the plain red in the '80s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 My problem is that I have very limited knowledge of freight stock that may have run on this line in the late 1970's/early 1980's - I can obviously see freight trains in photos, but the real issue is relating what is in the photographs to the products available for sale from Dapol/Farish/Peco etc. and buying the right stock in the right livery. Without mutual knowledge of particular photos Phil, that will remain a bit of a problem. In addition to Bernard's summary, I'd suggest you have a good browse of Paul Bartlett's website (just Google 'Bartlett Zenfolio'), and study in particular the galleries for BR built wagons . Take your time and dont try to take too much in at once, and by all means come back with any specific queries In a broader sense, I dont have any great recollection of freight on the Standedge route at this time, either from personal observation or published pics; I do STR oil trains but I suspect much of the wagonload traffic from Healey Mills may have used the Calder Valley or Copy Pit routes I also want to ask a question relating to this which is probably so basic I am embarrased to ask, but the research I have conducted to date has left me utterly confused - so, deep breath - when do I need a guards van on a train and for what stock - or indeed do I need one at all for the era I am modelling? It may be basic, but it's a confusing subject and comes up all the time - again to add to Bernard's notes, there is a page entitled 'Traditions in Decline' on my Wordpress blog (link below), which was specifically drafted to answer this recurrent query (and save me some typing) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philiprporter Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Many thanks indeed for these two VERY helpful replies - I will dig out some photographs if I can (I didnt want to scan images from books and post them as I suspect there may be copyright issues?) and post, but in the meantime the advice and links provided give me a real head start - my sincere thanks to you both. Best wishes, Phil. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 If my geography is correct, I have a couple of pictures taken at Stalybridge in 1982, these trains must be routed via Standedge. 37003 passing through Stalybridge, not sure if this is east or westbound, it was the only visit I ever made there, my notes just say 'freight'. The formation looks to be 4 MCVs, 1 MDV, MCVs, HTVs etc, not sure if it was fully fitted. It is possible the MCVs are conveying scrap, unless there is something behind the train itself, 21/6/82. 40184 working a Healey Mills - Northwich train of coke. This time it is HTVs, MCVs, HTVs, again I have cut off the rear, so can't tell if there was a BV, sorry, 21/6/82. I know little of N gauge stock, so I'll pass on recommending what's out there, cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomJ Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 There's a fair amount of suitable stock in N gauge. Its well worth joining the N gauge society (if not already a member) for access to kits etc as well as the journals. The classic BR brake van is avaliable from Farish in a variety of liveries. The 16t mineral wagons are avaliable from Farish as well. The 21t coal hoppers were made by Dapol (can be hard to get hold of them these days) or a kit from the N gauge society. Farish make varieties of the air-braked coal wagons, used for MGR and domestic coal. Lots of engineers wagons as kits. I'm a dyed in the wool kettle fan dipping my toes in with a 1980s era layout and I stll think a train looks incomplete without a brakevan on the rear! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 The Dapol HTO is quite good, but is based on the LNER style riveted bodies which had all been either withdrawn or rebodied by this period. The hoppers in the above picture are of the rebodied variety having just three panels per side rather than six - the N Gauge Society kit is also a six panel, but of the welded variety. You could strip the detail off either and redo with strips of plastic to represent the later pattern. Obviously starting from the Dapol model is easier as the body and chassis are both one piece each. The support struts at the end are also different on the later and rebodied wagons. Officially by this period both fitted and unfitted wagons were brown, but the previous practice of light grey for unfitted stock did persist. Piped (i.e through vacuum pipe but no brakes) wagons were always in the 'fitted' livery. Most oil traffic went via the Calder Valley but engineering diversions would have rerouted them via Standedge on occasions. Typically these are the standard 100t TEAs, 45t TTAs or a mix. No company markings at this time, just layers of filth! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philiprporter Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 Dear all - this is really great information and I am making significant progress thanks to the wealth of knowledge delivered in these posts - my sincere thanks to all, and the two pictures are very nostalgic indeed!! I used to me a member of the NGS so I had better think about joining up again by the sounds of it!! - I also found a very useful feature on eHattons that isnt on the hattons.co.uk site in that they list several 'eras' beneath each wagon - so, based on this and the advice above, the following I think are broadly correct for the time period (all linked to eHattons - but not an exhaustive list as I have left off some more obvious examples such as mineral wagons) having looked at a combination of the GF eras and photos in books etc, but please shout if I am wrong!!: http://www.ehattons.com/47713/Dapol_Model_Railways_NB118_21T_hopper_wagon/StockDetail.aspx http://www.ehattons.com/40414/Peco_Model_Railway_Products_NR_7EW_Ferry_tube_wagon_bauxite_Weathered/StockDetail.aspx http://www.ehattons.com/32952/Graham_Farish_373_002D_Bulk_Powder_PCA_Wagon_Rugby_Cement_/StockDetail.aspx http://www.ehattons.com/32962/Graham_Farish_373_403B_31_Ton_OAA_Open_Plank_Wagon_Railfreight_Red_Grey_/StockDetail.aspx http://www.ehattons.com/26722/Graham_Farish_373_502B_46_tonne_GLW_HSA_hopper_wagon_brown_/StockDetail.aspx http://www.ehattons.com/32964/Graham_Farish_373_554B_100_Ton_Bogie_Tank_Wagon_BP_Black_Weathered_/StockDetail.aspx http://www.ehattons.com/26959/Graham_Farish_373_601B_46T_VGA_sliding_wall_van_Railfreight_Speedlink_weathered_/StockDetail.aspx http://www.ehattons.com/32969/Graham_Farish_373_627C_31_Ton_OBA_Open_Wagon_Plasmor_Blockfreight_Weathered_/StockDetail.aspx http://www.ehattons.com/25393/Graham_Farish_373_726A_10_Ton_insulated_box_van_planked_sides_in_BR_bauxite_/StockDetail.aspx http://www.ehattons.com/30401/Graham_Farish_373_700A_12_Ton_Ventilated_Box_Van_Planked_Sides_BR_Bauxite_/StockDetail.aspx http://www.ehattons.com/38880/Graham_Farish_373_900D_46_tonne_HAA_Hopper_Freight_Brown_/StockDetail.aspx http://www.ehattons.com/26688/Graham_Farish_377_000_40_Tonne_Sealion_YGH_bogie_hopper_wagon_olive_green/StockDetail.aspx http://www.ehattons.com/26190/Graham_Farish_377_525A_20_Ton_brake_van_BR_bauxite/StockDetail.aspx http://www.ehattons.com/38868/Graham_Farish_377_725_SPA_Wagon_with_Steel_Coils_Railfreight_Red_/StockDetail.aspx http://www.ehattons.com/38898/Graham_Farish_377_827_22_Ton_Presflo_Bulk_Powder_Wagon_Blue_Circle_Bulk_Cement_Brown_/StockDetail.aspx (eras suggest this Presflo is too old, but pictures seem to disagree?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Mostly good choices, though the Plasmor blockfreight is pretty route specific (ad not where you're modelling), the SPAs would be brand new circa 1980 and the VGAs from 1981 on. A few of the older pattern wagons will need TOPS codes added (Paul's site will show where and how varied!), but you're right on the Presflo; that's already TOPS era. The HSA marking on the HBA relates to a slightly later period when some were used as scrap wagons (the hopper doors being welded shut). These wagons were also resprung during the 1980s to become HEA, but for your period HBA is correct. Rugby Cement used a number of designs, the Farish wagon most closely representing those built around 1973, PR9400-20. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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