Where might you see an LMS 6-wheel diner in steam days?

[6959]

There is not much scope for an 00 scale ready to run restaurant car in a GWR train besides the Hornby representation of a Collett Diagram H33 restaurant or, in WR days, the Collett again or one of the BR Mk1 restaurant or buffet coaches from Hornby or Bachmann.

 

I particularly like the 6-wheel LMS dining car but would need a bit of modeller's licence to use one. However, having lived mostly near GWR/ LMS joint lines and as LMS stock passed through Bristol maybe this provides a cop out. I should like to know how far south and west the LMS 6-wheel dining cars did roam in steam days.

 

As a diversion, How about ex LNER catering coaches?

 

link to picture:

 

http://www.ehattons.com/51194/Hornby_Model_Railways_R4188C_68ft_12_wheel_dining_car_in_BR_crimson_cream_Due_3rd_qtr/StockDetail.aspx

Edited January 31, 2012 by 6959
Copyright - photo removed

[jcm@gwr]

Hi 6959,

 

I don't think I can answer your question, but just to clarify, I assume

you mean 6-wheel bogies, not a 6 wheel coach?

 

Jeff

[cary hill]

You could try the PDF's on http://www.cometmodels.co.uk/ relating to the four 68' dining cars they list (including the Hornby diagram). They each have selection of formations featuring the relevant dining car.

 

If memory serves correctly Birmingham is as close to Bristol as they get in their examples - a lot of through trains to Scotland. Birmingham-Newcastle and so on - not that the selected example formations are exhaustive or prescriptive in any way.

[Adrian Wintle]

There was a train diagrammed in the 1938 carriage working that had GWR stock with the exception that it had an LMS diner alternating with a GWR diner in the diagram. The diner ran as far south as Plymouth. This would allow you to run an LMS diner in a train of GWR coaches. I don't have the book handy, but I will try to remember to look it up tonight.

 

The Hornby GWR H33 Restaurant Composite is quite a nice representation of the coach prior to rebuilding in ~1938. There were 4 of these diners for use on cross-country trains. Unfortunately, the windows aren't correct for BR days.

 

Adrian

Edit to correct facts (see post below for details).

Edited February 2, 2012 by Adrian Wintle

[cary hill]

There was a train diagrammed in the 1938 carriage working that had LMS and GWR stock on alternate days with the exception that it always had an LMS diner in the diagram. It might have run as far south as Plymouth. This would allow you to run an LMS diner in a train of GWR coaches. I don't have the book handy, but I will try to remember to look it up tonight.

 

The Hornby GWR H33 Restaurant Composite is quite a nice representation of the coach prior to rebuilding in ~1938. There were 4 of these diners for use on cross- . Unfortunately, the windows aren't correct for BR days.

 

Adrian

 

There are carriage workings in the WR 1956/57 schedules showing 3 trains from Liverpool/Manchester to Plymouth and return workings which list a Dining Car as working through to/back from Plymouth. This is indicated as an alternating LM/WR example in a train of otherwise WR stock.

 

I guess these are a post-war continuation/variation of Adrian's workings.This gets an LM(S)dining car well south and west of Bristol, probably not a 12-wheeler but then you did mention a licence .......

[Poor Old Bruce]

There is a photo in one of the Bradford Barton books, something like 'Steam in the Peak District', which shows 'The Palatine' climbing up past Chinley North Junction behind a rebuilt Patriot in the late 1950s. That train, which is otherwise all BR Mark 1s, includes a 12 wheel Restaurant Car.

[Adrian Wintle]

I checked the 1938 working and I was incorrect in that the stock didn't alternate, only the diner. The 1.00pm Plymouth to Crewe/10.32am Crewe to Plymouth working was diagrammed for GWR stock with the exception of an alternating dining car.Since it would almost certainly have been a compo diner, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that it could have been a 12-wheel car like the Dapol/Hornby one.

 

Train formation (Plymouth to Crewe)

GWR Fish trucks as required (Plymouth to Aberdeen etc)

GWR Van Third - brake end leading (Carmarthen to Manchester - presumably attached at Bristol)

GWR Compo (Carmarthen to Manchester - presumably attached at Bristol)

GWR Brake Compo (Plymouth to Manchester)

GWR Van Third - brake end leading (Plymouth to Liverpool)

GWR/LMS Dining Car - alternate days (Plymouth to Liverpool)

GWR Compo (Plymouth to Liverpool)

GWR Van Third - brake end trailing (Plymouth to Liverpool)

GWR Brake Compo - brake end trailing (Plymouth to Birkenhead)

GWR Compo (Kingswear to Bristo - presumably attached at Newton Abbotl)

GWR Van Third (Kingswear to Bristol - presumably attached at Newton Abbot)

GWR Brake Compo - brake end trailing (Carmarthen to Birkenhead - presumably attached at Bristol)

 

The 7.45am Penzance to Crewe/1.10pm Crewe to Plymouth working also contains an alternating dining car, but it also contains some LMS coaches (alternating with GWR coaches in the Crewe to Plymouth direction) as well as GWR stock.

 

Adrian

[retbsignalman]

Hi!

I believe one went from Inverness to Achnasheen and transferred to the east bound working from Kyle, also one went to The Mound and back on the Wick line too.

Cheers G

[6959]

I managed to get an 'unused' Hornby R4188B [M233M] ex_LMS 12-wheel Restaurant on ebay for 11.50 plus 3.00 p&p. For that sort of price, and the supporting evidence in previous posts, I think it will be well used in various scenarios. Thank you gents.

[Combe Martin]

On ‎31‎/‎01‎/‎2012 at 17:40, 6959 said:

There is not much scope for an 00 scale ready to run restaurant car in a GWR train besides the Hornby representation of a Collett Diagram H33 restaurant or, in WR days, the Collett again or one of the BR Mk1 restaurant or buffet coaches from Hornby or Bachmann.

 

I particularly like the 6-wheel LMS dining car but would need a bit of modeller's licence to use one. However, having lived mostly near GWR/ LMS joint lines and as LMS stock passed through Bristol maybe this provides a cop out. I should like to know how far south and west the LMS 6-wheel dining cars did roam in steam days.

 

As a diversion, How about ex LNER catering coaches?

 

link to picture:

 

http://www.ehattons.com/51194/Hornby_Model_Railways_R4188C_68ft_12_wheel_dining_car_in_BR_crimson_cream_Due_3rd_qtr/StockDetail.aspx

 

I've only just found this topic.

 

The Pines Express from Manchester/Liverpool to Bournemouth used an ex-LMS 6 wheel bogie restaurant car up until some point in 1961 I think (though it wasn't the Hornby type).   After that it was a Mk1. 

 

It ran over the Somerset & Dorset line between Bath and Bournemouth West which was part of the WR from 1958.

 

The Gresley restaurant cars were mostly confined to the ex-LNER lines because most were electric and the ex-LNER lines had charging points for them.  For those that wandered onto the other regions, the LNER built 3 gas and 3 anthracite electric powered cars that didn't need the electric charging points.  These did reach Bournemouth West, though not via the S&D but rather the Oxford-Reading-Basingstoke-Southampton route, so still over part of the WR.

 

Peter.