Ozexpatriate Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 My apologies for bumping an ancient thread - but I wanted to ask a question in 'Musings & Miscellany' that I didn't think worthy of a new topic. Along the lines of two nations sundered by a common language, I often notice that in the US, it is the railway chief executives who are famous, but in the UK it is the chief mechanical engineers. It is easy to read about the shennanigans of Thomas Durant (UP), Cornelius Vanderbilt (NYC), Thomas Scott (of the PRR, not to mention his connection with Andrew Carnegie) and that dynamic duo in the west and northwest, Ned Harriman and J.J. Hill. Translating this to the UK, it makes me wonder how much of an impact the executive management had on the railways, as distinct from technical innovations under the CMEs. GM, Sir Felix Pole resigned from the GWR amid friction with his chairman, (Viscount Churchill) in 1929. Two years later young Mr. Stanier left the GWR for the LMSR. Clearly it was the opportunity of a lifetime and C.B. Collett wasn't going anywhere, but it makes me wonder if Stanier (who had been Swindon Works manager throughout Pole's adminstration) was influenced by how he might have felt about working under Sir James Milne (Pole's successor as GM). Doubtless these organizations were very hierarchical, but besides operations and techincal details, I am interested in the organizational culture. How much did the board in their panelled offices at Paddington interact with the senior management on the engineering side? Does anyone have any good biographies to recommend that speak to board room politics - particularly for the GWR. Sadly, I can't drop by my local bookshop (equally sadly there are not very many left) and browse such arcane topics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 I mentioned Sir Felix in post #38 on this thread. His memoirs have been published: "Felix J C Pole - His book" Town & Country Press, Bracknell (1968) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 17, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2013 My apologies for bumping an ancient thread - but I wanted to ask a question in 'Musings & Miscellany' that I didn't think worthy of a new topic. Along the lines of two nations sundered by a common language, I often notice that in the US, it is the railway chief executives who are famous, but in the UK it is the chief mechanical engineers. It is easy to read about the shennanigans of Thomas Durant (UP), Cornelius Vanderbilt (NYC), Thomas Scott (of the PRR, not to mention his connection with Andrew Carnegie) and that dynamic duo in the west and northwest, Ned Harriman and J.J. Hill. Translating this to the UK, it makes me wonder how much of an impact the executive management had on the railways, as distinct from technical innovations under the CMEs. GM, Sir Felix Pole resigned from the GWR amid friction with his chairman, (Viscount Churchill) in 1929. Two years later young Mr. Stanier left the GWR for the LMSR. Clearly it was the opportunity of a lifetime and C.B. Collett wasn't going anywhere, but it makes me wonder if Stanier (who had been Swindon Works manager throughout Pole's adminstration) was influenced by how he might have felt about working under Sir James Milne (Pole's successor as GM). Doubtless these organizations were very hierarchical, but besides operations and techincal details, I am interested in the organizational culture. How much did the board in their panelled offices at Paddington interact with the senior management on the engineering side? Does anyone have any good biographies to recommend that speak to board room politics - particularly for the GWR. Sadly, I can't drop by my local bookshop (equally sadly there are not very many left) and browse such arcane topics. It's something I've never seen anything about (in relation to that period of the GWR that is). The only minutes I have/have seen from that period are much lower down the practical railway operating branch of the organisation and they indicate no change at all had taken place although within a few years various new technologies get an occasional mention (but that in itself isn't, I think, linked to ideas 'from the Board). Indeed I get the impression all the way through that very often ideas for changes in practice or new methods were as likely to come from the bottom of the organisation as they were from the top. One thing which did significantly change around then was as a result of the General Strike (so a bit earlier of course) and it was quite interesting - many years ago going through old personal files and seeing what happened as the form of address changed significantly when the strike was over with letters to employees no longer being addressed to 'Mr xxx' but simply 'xxx;, and in a rather different tone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Please don't apologise for bumping the thread. Gives me the chance to register another vote for the great Andre Chapelon. Such a shame he was never allowed to take steam to its ultimate expression of power and efficiency. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 I mentioned Sir Felix in post #38 on this thread. His memoirs have been published: "Felix J C Pole - His book" Town & Country Press, Bracknell (1968) Thank you Peter. Have you read this book? It looks like it was first published for private circulation in 1954 and then publicly in 1968. Out of print of course but it is available second hand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 One thing which did significantly change around then was as a result of the General Strike (so a bit earlier of course) and it was quite interesting - many years ago going through old personal files and seeing what happened as the form of address changed significantly when the strike was over with letters to employees no longer being addressed to 'Mr xxx' but simply 'xxx;, and in a rather different tone.That's a really interesting observation. Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted February 22, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 22, 2013 Well done unicorn 1 for getting HF Stephens in on post number 4! The one for me is Sir Herbert Ashcombe Walker, who as GM of the Southern is credited with driving forward electrification and the time interval services without which London and the South East would be very different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 I think I would probably be Brunel too - someone with lots of ideas that don't always work, but whetehr they do or not they tend to be spectacular! Otherwise - Reverend Weech! (Does he count?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted February 22, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 22, 2013 My user name says who I might have liked to be - not a great engineer, in fact very conservative. But he was Lord High Everything for years on the Rhymney Railway. And I do like his outside framed saddle tanks. He lived to a good old age, and died "in service" (he apparently caught a chill on a GWR train on the way to a board meeting in London). I think Holcroft is an interesting character and probably had quite a big influence on things at the GWR. Outside of engineering, how about the PR people such as George Dow and of course the London Underground team - corporate design, marketing, architecture, a complete package. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Thank you Peter. Have you read this book? It looks like it was first published for private circulation in 1954 and then publicly in 1968. Out of print of course but it is available second hand. Afraid not, but I might try to get a copy to borrow from my library via inter-library loan when I'm in tomorrow Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebottle Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 I think I would probably be Brunel too - someone with lots of ideas that don't always work, but whetehr they do or not they tend to be spectacular! * Brilliant no matter what he did. See that film where the man slits the woman's eye with the razor? Pure magic that, so it is. Gordon * Satire alert. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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