RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 20, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2012 Thought this would be coming There's an item on my Wordpress blog (link below, see the 'Traditions in Decline' page) that might be of interest, as well as the posts above. All good stuff there Ian although it was of course prohibited to use an Instanter to couple to a passenger coach in a passenger train - a screw coupling had to be used (although any vehicles behind the one coupled to the coach could be coupled with an Instanter. But coupling with a screw coupling would have presented no problem so nothing wrong in seeing an Instanter fitted wagon coupled on the back of a 'passenger train'. As far as 'Mixed Train' is concerned (and sorry to go OT here) the answer was simple - if a train was authorised to run as a Mixed Train it could do so, if it wasn't then officially it couldn't - but it could still convey tail traffic (unless it was prohibited from doing so). But, as you do say, to be sure you do need the source documents. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rods_of_Revolution Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 Don't worry about going off topic Mike it's all good stuff and interesting to read! I've a had a look at your blog Ian and it makes for a very interesting read! I have read on another forum that all fitted freight wagons in a partially fitted train needed to have their passenger/goods changeover levers set to the goods mode, those without levers had to be run in the unfitted portion of the train. Is this correct? Can anyone elaborate? Many thanks, Jack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ramblin Rich Posted February 20, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2012 Sorry to backtrack a bit here.... The Bodmin/Wenford trains were interesting because the 37s were banned from the Boscarne-Wenford section but a 08 could only cope with eight loaded clayhoods on the climb from Boacarne-Bodmin. So usual practice was, I believe, for an 08, empty wagons and BV to leave St Blazey for Wenford (a total of four reversals!). The 08 would bring a string a loaded wagons to Boscarne where a 37 would take over. The 08 and BV would work light back to St Blazey. If loads were light then the 08 would work the train through. Loads of intersting modelling possibilities there! Kenny (Rivercider) posted a pic on another thread of the 08 running back from Bodmin General into Bodmin Road light, then the breakvan freewheeling down the gradient, in order to avaoid one runround move - SPUD & DCC in a brakevan anone? I think your 'lowfit' is a vac fitted 22T Plate. Lovely pic, though but Thanks, Ian - better eyesight / recognition powers thann me! I didn't have time when I posted before, should acknowledge that this is one of Dave Vinsen's pictures, you (Ian) already commented on the North Devon Freight thread this would have been during 1980 when SPAs were new & before 25s migrated away from the South West.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Don't worry about going off topic Mike it's all good stuff and interesting to read! I've a had a look at your blog Ian and it makes for a very interesting read! I have read on another forum that all fitted freight wagons in a partially fitted train needed to have their passenger/goods changeover levers set to the goods mode, those without levers had to be run in the unfitted portion of the train. Is this correct? Can anyone elaborate? Many thanks, Jack Not that I remember. Usually it was only air braked stock that has passenger/goods brake selectio; it's all to do with quicker release on passenger stock. I don't think any vac stock had them, though I might be wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rods_of_Revolution Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 Not that I remember. Usually it was only air braked stock that has passenger/goods brake selectio; it's all to do with quicker release on passenger stock. I don't think any vac stock had them, though I might be wrong. Yes, by partially fitted I was meaning airbraked stock with vac stock running as effectively unfitted, my post was a little ambiguous! So did things like VDAs and VGAs have the selector? Where is it located? Many thanks, Jack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 All good stuff there Ian although it was of course prohibited to use an Instanter to couple to a passenger coach in a passenger train - a screw coupling had to be used (although any vehicles behind the one coupled to the coach could be coupled with an Instanter. But coupling with a screw coupling would have presented no problem so nothing wrong in seeing an Instanter fitted wagon coupled on the back of a 'passenger train'. As far as 'Mixed Train' is concerned (and sorry to go OT here) the answer was simple - if a train was authorised to run as a Mixed Train it could do so, if it wasn't then officially it couldn't - but it could still convey tail traffic (unless it was prohibited from doing so). But, as you do say, to be sure you do need the source documents. Thanks Mike, although I consciously steered away from getting too in-depth, I have revisited that piece and subtly reworded a few things Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggesford box Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Just a thought but would there have been an increase in partially fitted freight/use of guards vans for a while during the changeover from vacuum to air braked stock, countrywide? Presumably it would have been avoided as much as possible but I cannot imagine it could be avoided altogether. I seem to recall something once about an upturn in freight traffic on the Settle and Carlisle by the use of the older, slower vacuum braked stock. I do not suppose an increase in partially fitted freights trundling up and down Shap would have been that welcomed by the operating authorities. Bit off post but it would be an excuse for us to operate more 'interesting' trains on our layouts of that period. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I presume the fitting of the early AB wagons with through vacuum pipes was an attempt to avoid having to run them unfitted with a brake van when sharing a train with VB wagons. The piped AB wagons could be formed up in an otherwise fully-fitted VB train, subject to limits on maximum number and position in the train (not near the end!). I think your recollection of extra freight on the S&C may come from the fact that all the catch points over Shap were taken out when it was resignalled in the early 70s, so partly-fitted or unfitted freights would have had to use the S&C or some other route. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggesford box Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Ta for that, I did wonder about the provision of catch points since even in places that did retain them their numbers seemed to be rationalised over the years but did not know what the position was regarding Shap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 26, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 26, 2012 I think your recollection of extra freight on the S&C may come from the fact that all the catch points over Shap were taken out when it was resignalled in the early 70s, so partly-fitted or unfitted freights would have had to use the S&C or some other route. Are you sure about that Edwin? I seem to remember reading at the time that a number of catch points were converted to power operation and arranged to be worked in conjunction with the description of particular trains. As far as diversion of trains to the S&C was concerned I'm sure part of the reason for that was lack of paths over Shap for slower speed trains. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I'm pretty sure I read it somewhere many years ago but I can't point to a source. No doubt someone will be along soon with better information. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I'm pretty sure I read it somewhere many years ago but I can't point to a source. No doubt someone will be along soon with better information. I'm pretty certain I've read it in a couple of places; I've got the Modern Railways of the period in the attic. At the time, they would publish track layouts of major resignalling schemes when they were commissioned- this would be about 1973/4, I believe, for Carlisle and Preston. I'm off to play trains now, but will have a look when I get a chance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DY444 Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 P139 of Electric Euston to Glasgow by OS Nock states that the catch points were removed from Shap as part of the Carlisle PSB scheme. It then goes on to describe the special provision made in Motherwell PSB for handling them on Beattock where they were (initially) retained. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
40044 Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Yes, by partially fitted I was meaning airbraked stock with vac stock running as effectively unfitted, my post was a little ambiguous! So did things like VDAs and VGAs have the selector? Where is it located? Many thanks, Jack I think I've got this right... AB stock in the fitted portion of a partially fitted freight train had to have to Goods/Pass lever set to 'Goods' so that the automatic brake applied slightly slower than it would do in 'Pass', so reducing the chance of the train brakes coming on a bit sharpish and possibly leading to bufferlocking and the like. Disc-braked VB wagons (there were a few) were prohibited from travelling in the fitted portion of a partially fitted freight train for the same reason. The Goods/Pass changeover lever is located on the solebar of most AB freight stock built or converted since the early 70s: http://paulbartlett....ce3f2#h384ce3f2 the lever with the white-painted ball on the end, to the left of the handbrake lever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I don't recall any vac braked wagons with discs! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I don't recall any vac braked wagons with discs! ... Disc-braked VB wagons (there were a few) As stated, there weren't many. Some Covhops and 24.5T coal hoppers come to mind, OTTOMH. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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