RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted March 9, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 9, 2014 John, I don't think I would dare get sidetracked. I started the initial plans for what eventually became KL in February 2009. I don't think I could face spending another few years refining somthing different! My future shunting plank project will be different as there are plenty of exames out there to copy and modify. Jeff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Hi Jeff & John, I am the master at being side-tracked. I know in my own head that I've wanted to do a model of Dent for some 40 years but kept finding a reason NOT TO, such as not enough sidings or platforms or no engine shed or goods shed, not enough buildings, not enough points even, it seemed there was always an excuse not to model Dent but at long last its in the making......and about time too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted March 9, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 9, 2014 Hi Jeff & John, I am the master at being side-tracked. I know in my own head that I've wanted to do a model of Dent for some 40 years but kept finding a reason NOT TO, such as not enough sidings or platforms or no engine shed or goods shed, not enough buildings, not enough points even, it seemed there was always an excuse not to model Dent but at long last its in the making......and about time too! When I started building "layouts" again in the1990s I wouldn't have been happy with KL - at all! My idea of a layout had to have at least 2 stations, turntable, sidings, bridges, tunnels.... etc. In other words, enough for 3 or 4 layouts! Plans in RM always seemed too basic. Dent or KL would also have seemed to be "lacking". Totally wrong, of course! As we get older maybe we finally come to our senses!! Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Evening Jeff and Mike, I get side tracked far to easily, but with Wye Dale I will be going down the Less is More route, Having seen the pics of Bermuda Road I went out and bought the Bachmann 4 road Engine Shed and then The Heljan DCC Turntable. Fortunately both have now been moved on to friends without any financial loss and I can once again concentrate on the Less is More principal that reading and following KL and Dent has realize is the best for a realistic, prototypical Layout. O.K. Next Sat I am operating a Dutch Micro Shunting Layout at the Nottingham Show, SO WHO KNOWS WHAT I MIGHT COME HOME WITH Bodge :no: :no: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted March 10, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 10, 2014 Evening Jeff and Mike, I get side tracked far to easily, but with Wye Dale I will be going down the Less is More route, Having seen the pics of Bermuda Road I went out and bought the Bachmann 4 road Engine Shed and then The Heljan DCC Turntable. Fortunately both have now been moved on to friends without any financial loss and I can once again concentrate on the Less is More principal that reading and following KL and Dent has realize is the best for a realistic, prototypical Layout. O.K. Next Sat I am operating a Dutch Micro Shunting Layout at the Nottingham Show, SO WHO KNOWS WHAT I MIGHT COME HOME WITH Bodge :no: :no: Don't you dare go H0!!!! Lol. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peach james Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 When I started building "layouts" again in the1990s I wouldn't have been happy with KL - at all! My idea of a layout had to have at least 2 stations, turntable, sidings, bridges, tunnels.... etc. In other words, enough for 3 or 4 layouts! Plans in RM always seemed too basic. Dent or KL would also have seemed to be "lacking". Totally wrong, of course! As we get older maybe we finally come to our senses!! Jeff Which is odd- I have been working on Long Marton on and off for 21 years now, and started at 16 with it. The "complicated" plans had already gone by the wayside before I started Long Marton. I knew I wanted 2 tracks, and S&C, with the viaduct (ideal), but the track plan seemed right from the start. Although, given more space I would like Appleby, or New Biggin & the gypsum mine, space does come into play eventually. Unless I was going to pay someone else to do some of the modeling for me, I think Long Marton is really at the edge of what one person can achieve in a reasonable amount of time with other things to do as well. It certainly appeared that way to me from 17-18 onward, that it would not be practical to run a bigger layout by myself than Long Marton. I'd love to make a model of Kingmoor yard in the Addition...but I don't think I want to fill it, or clean the track on it. http://ribblesteam.wordpress.com/2011/07/28/kingmoor-marshalling-yard-carlisle/ James 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted March 10, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 10, 2014 You were clearly a lot more sensible - at a younger age - than me, James. It took me about 4 layouts to "go prototype" and to stop cramming as much track in as possible. Jeff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebs Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 You were clearly a lot more sensible - at a younger age - than me, James. It took me about 4 layouts to "go prototype" and to stop cramming as much track in as possible. Jeff It's taken me about 5 versions of track laying to come up with a layout that doesn't involve trying to cram in as much track as possible... …Now anyone know how to wire in and indeed add insulated joiners to a diamond crossing for DC? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted March 10, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 10, 2014 Hi Lee. I've never used a diamond on a layout. Do a Google search on "wiring a diamond" is sure to bring up the info you need. Brian Lambert's site may cover this. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebs Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Brian is an absolute genius. I got a lot of help from him a few years ago. I did check out his site earlier, and he has this to say about Diamonds: The insulated frog diamond crossing does not require any special feeding arrangements as all track power feed is taken care of by the insulted frogs and the factory installed wires underneath the point. But as I've never seen one myself, I'll have to wait and see when I can get my hands on them. As I'm going DC, I'll have to insulate the crossover and turnout somewhere too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peach james Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 The answer is "it depends". Typically, the fixed (outer) rails can be fed directly. Assuming (!) that all frogs are live, then there can be some other interesting effects. Take a look at Tim Warren's track laying to see how to do it. http://www.bronx-terminal.com/ (or, heck, get drawn down a rabbit hole and have a look around the web page...) The usual trick is to use the adjacent turnouts to control the frog power supplies. This assumes there are adjacent turnouts. If it is strictly on a figure 8 or similar, then insulated frogs are normal, especially with near 90% crossing angles. I know my double slip is wired as a single section, fed from the outside rails, as per how Peco recommend. That is with insulfrog's. I have experienced a little difficulty with it over the last few days with my 50, strangely enough. Most likely due to grime on the track though...i've spent some time cleaning track last night, and more before. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Evening Jeff and Mike, I get side tracked far to easily, but with Wye Dale I will be going down the Less is More route, Having seen the pics of Bermuda Road I went out and bought the Bachmann 4 road Engine Shed and then The Heljan DCC Turntable. Fortunately both have now been moved on to friends without any financial loss and I can once again concentrate on the Less is More principal that reading and following KL and Dent has realize is the best for a realistic, prototypical Layout. O.K. Next Sat I am operating a Dutch Micro Shunting Layout at the Nottingham Show, SO WHO KNOWS WHAT I MIGHT COME HOME WITH Bodge :no: :no: Hi Andy, Sorry can't be at Nottingham next week, I am helping a mate with his layout at a show in Wallasey. Anyway you might come home with a replacement turntable and engine shed if look in on Bermuda Road again hehehe Jeff, I think we were both bitten by the track bug many years ago but now see the light! Pity we did not follow James's ethos eh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted March 10, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 10, 2014 (edited) Yes Mike. But the learning process has been fun! I do cringe, though, when I look at some old photos (fortunately not digital so I can't put them on here!) The "layout" has Merchant Navys rubbing shoulders with A3s, A4s, Standards and diesels - and a real old mix of wagons - all muddled together. Add in a couple of stations and 15" radius curves....on an 8' x 4' board... Embarrassing. But we all have to learn somewhere. Jeff Edited March 10, 2014 by Physicsman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Hi Andy, Sorry can't be at Nottingham next week, I am helping a mate with his layout at a show in Wallasey. Anyway you might come home with a replacement turntable and engine shed if look in on Bermuda Road again hehehe Jeff, I think we were both bitten by the track bug many years ago but now see the light! Pity we did not follow James's ethos eh! There's still time to go back to our youth, hahha Turntable, Shed and Fleishmann Roundhouse on order. And :no: :no: :no: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Yes Mike. But the learning process has been fun! I do cringe, though, when I look at some old photos (fortunately not digital so I can't put them on here!) The "layout" has Merchant Navys rubbing shoulders with A3s, A4s, Standards and diesels - and a real old mix of wagons - all muddled together. Add in a couple of stations and 15" radius curves....on an 8' x 4' board... Embarrassing. But we all have to learn somewhere. Jeff You mean like this? Never did any ballasting in those days, Ashamed of Swad 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted March 10, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 10, 2014 I would always use live frogs for diamonds and slips. On DC I generally find the best way to wire a diamond is to use auxiliary contacts on the associated pointwork to switch the diamond. It makes sense as say a line crossing the main from the loop (as per a number of GWR stations) the diamond needs to be connected to either the main section switch or the loop section switch. On DCC I would consider using a Hex juicer. The is an old adage suggesting you should model what you know. unfortunately what I knew best was Reading which was rather large with several goods yards 10 platforms and a southern station alongside. The size of fiddleyard needed would be rather mindboggling. It would make Mr Waterman's layout (in a shed larger than my garden) look positively small. Don 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted March 10, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 10, 2014 You mean like this? Classes 31 37 25 AP.JPG Never did any ballasting in those days, Ashamed of Swad Blimey! That's FAR better than the rubbish I used to produce. At least your picture looks moderately realistic, Andy!! Jeff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peach james Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 http://www.flickr.com/photos/47105471@N05/8448962255/in/set-72157629408307454 ~1994 or so. James 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted March 11, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 11, 2014 Interesting pics, James. For a moment I thought the young lad on photo 0098 was you..... "Blimey, advanced model making for 5 year olds way back in '94" ran through my mind! Sadly, I was mistaken.... You've quite a big project on there - and as you know I've been following it for the last 2 years. Will it ever be "finished"? Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peach james Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 http://www.flickr.com/photos/47105471@N05/10770215163/ (that'd be me) Or http://www.flickr.com/photos/47105471@N05/6798999818/ (probably a closer match by age- I'd have been 4 & a bit) The layout- I doubt it will ever be "finished". It will get more done, slowly. The next step is running a few more of the trains through/around over the next week, then the club comes to visit next weekend. After this last lot of changes, I am slowly getting happier with the track performance, although there are still areas I'd like to relay. Next step is some more styrospan grinding to make the layout a bit more even, and then the middle sections need plastering & sanding back...and buildings need finishing, and the anhydrite wagons need building, and the Flatrol P's need making...you know, I might not ever get it done !. Only 2 years until I retire from this job, then we see how that plays out. The chances are good that I will have to go work somewhere, probably on a camp job. So, it is all to depend. One of the big differences is that Long Marton is moveable, mostly easily. There are some sections which are attached direct to the house, but the major sections are all removeable. James James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Hi Jeff and all, Some history in the passing there eh! I will have to dig out my efforts from many, many moons ago, erm' maybe not as I run to hide! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted March 12, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 12, 2014 Hi Jeff and all, Some history in the passing there eh! I will have to dig out my efforts from many, many moons ago, erm' maybe not as I run to hide! Cheers Mike. If I ever get some of my old photo prints (remember that "old" technology from a few years back?!) scanned I'll give you a real laugh. Just trying to remember whatever happened to my "art of the state" Hornby station and signalbox!! Jeff 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aberdare Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I lost all my early photographs of the layout from the late 70s and early 80s and I think it's for the best as it was very compressed, Hemyock which is now 10.5ft was on a 6ft board and nowhere near as prototypical, think bog brush fir trees from string and twisted wire made in a drill. Nothing like that was ever there and I did like lots of track as well, twice round the garage and 4 stations, I must have been mad. Boy, am I ever glad I lost those pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted March 12, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 12, 2014 I lost all my early photographs of the layout from the late 70s and early 80s and I think it's for the best as it was very compressed, Hemyock which is now 10.5ft was on a 6ft board and nowhere near as prototypical, think bog brush fir trees from string and twisted wire made in a drill. Nothing like that was ever there and I did like lots of track as well, twice round the garage and 4 stations, I must have been mad. Boy, am I ever glad I lost those pics. Said with real feeling, Jim! As for "bog brush trees". I bought a few of them - I think they were by K&M. As realistic as a - well, a bog brush! I'll certainly be trying out your wire method (a la Hemyock) when I get to detail KL2. In the meantime - keep looking for those old photos! Jeff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aberdare Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Said with real feeling, Jim! As for "bog brush trees". I bought a few of them - I think they were by K&M. As realistic as a - well, a bog brush! I'll certainly be trying out your wire method (a la Hemyock) when I get to detail KL2. In the meantime - keep looking for those old photos! Jeff Jeff, When I say 'lost' I actually mean destroyed, there are just some things in life you are so embarrassed about they just have to be erased from history, the worst thing is I thought it was brilliant and ground breaking, Thank God there was no internet then, just doesn't bear thinking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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