West Kirby Town: narrow gauge is coming to town.

[Simond]

Hi all.

 

 

I've also been working on refitting chips and speakers in some locos. In my 37 I've got a Loksound v4 XL chip. I had used 2 x bass reflex speakers with it and the sound was a bit muffled so I've left one bass reflex in and added an "ordinary" speaker to it (Sorry, I don't know the technical term!! Can anyone put me right?) Both are 8 ohm, wired in parallel and the sound is really good now. I've used the same set up in my 31. Previously I had 2 smaller base reflexes in it and the sound was very quiet - even on full volume. It took me a while but I found the cause of the problem: the speakers were 8 ohm and, thinking they were 4, I'd wired them in series!!! Ooooops!! Now that I've used the same configuration as the 37 the sound is so much better.

 

I also found that it's useful to test the phasing of speakers before you fit them. I have 2, already wired with a black and a red wire but the phasing was different!! They are now in parallel with black to red twice - not what you'd expect!! I test them by putting about 3-4 volts across the terminals and seeing which way the speaker moves.

 

 

Sorry this is a quote from a post from last year, but do be careful about putting 3-4V DC across your speakers - that's about an Amp on a 4 Ohm speaker and they won't survive it for long!

 

Sorry for the double-edit: I mis-read the speaker bit and thought you were likely to fry your chips...

 

Best

Simon

Edited June 14, 2014 by Simond

[Dmudriver]

Sorry this is a quote from a post from last year, but do be careful about putting 3-4V DC across your speakers - that's about an Amp on a 4 Ohm speaker and they won't survive it for long!

 

Hi Simon.

 

Thanks for the warning.  As a matter of interest, though, what is the recommended way of testing the polarity of speakers?

 

Rod

[Dmudriver]

Hi all.

 

Just a brief update.  I've got most of the interlocking working now - just the complication of the Inner Home with the theatre indicator to sort out and then it's done.

 

It's really satisfying to see it working  properly.  If one point isn't correct, the signal just won't move - perfect!  I built it all up slowly, attaching one point to the system and checking it's effect on each relevant signal, then moved on to the next.  There was a lot of air punching as each one worked!!

 

More soon.

 

Rod

[Simond]

Sorry this is a quote from a post from last year, but do be careful about putting 3-4V DC across your speakers - that's about an Amp on a 4 Ohm speaker and they won't survive it for long!

 

Hi Simon.

 

Thanks for the warning.  As a matter of interest, though, what is the recommended way of testing the polarity of speakers?

 

Rod

Rod

 

I guess you have to do what you did - ie apply a DC voltage and see which way it goes, unless you are blessed with the ears of a bat!

 

I think therefore that a suitable resistor in series with the speakers to limit the current is all you can do

 

I read on through the thread, which I have very much enjoyed (being a Birkenhead lad, born, bred & buttered!) and saw you did have some problems with your sound decoders - were these eventually resolved?

 

The thread has given me some further inspiration for my project, it looks great, so thanks

Simon

[Dmudriver]

Hi all.

 

The interlocking of the signals to the points is complete!!  I carried on today and fitted up the single post, double arm, theatre indicator signal (the Down Inner Home).  Apart from a couple of wires the wrong way round, it worked first time!!

 

I'm currently interlocking one of the points to another to avoid a seriously conflicting route, by cutting into the supply and only allowing the power through to the motor when the other point is correctly set.  And then that's the interlocking complete!!

 

I've operated a couple of times briefly - mainly to check the system - and it really adds another dimension.

 

This is what the matrix board looks like now it's complete and fixed in place under the baseboard:

 

 

I must acknowledge the advice given to me by Geoff of GF Controls all the way through the exercise: I couldn't have done it otherwise.

 

I have to admit my wiring is not very tidy, but it's all colour coded and labelled so fault finding isn't too difficult.  One of the next jobs is to lift it up a bit so that I don't catch it when I go under the board.

 

Now what to do?  I think, after lifting the wiring, the next job is to create more space at the station end of the layout for the proper buildings.  The pal who's building them for me is due home from holiday soon and he took materials with him on holiday so that he could build them if he got bored!!  Then there's my Coal Tank to finish.  So plenty to do!!

 

More soon.

 

Rod

[Dmudriver]

 

I read on through the thread, which I have very much enjoyed (being a Birkenhead lad, born, bred & buttered!) and saw you did have some problems with your sound decoders - were these eventually resolved?

 

 

Hi Simon.

 

 

 

Glad you like the layout.  It should look even better when I get the station building (complete with clock tower) and the platform awning.  They should make the station even more recognisable.  

 

The problems with the decoders I think revolved around using 1.1A decoders in a couple of my 0 gauge locos and DMUs.  I solved them by doing away with the sound in the steam engine (since sold) and putting an XL v4 in the Thumper.  That works fine now with no problems whatsoever (so far!!)

 

Rod

[Simond]

Thanks Rod

 

Do (did) your locos have large motors? I'm surprised, and maybe a little concerned, that you've discovered this, as I've built some 12 locos in 7mm, with motors ranging from Portescaps to a Crailcrest (bit too wide for wasp-waisted Churchward fire boxes!), and all of them are on standard decoders, mostly Zimo, with no problems so far.

 

I've only got two with sound, (Howes Loksound v4) and neither of them has been tested with a "wheelspin load" train yet, so perhaps I need to do some experimentation before spending more of the hard-earned!

 

Best

Simon

[Dmudriver]

Thanks Rod

 

Do (did) your locos have large motors? I'm surprised, and maybe a little concerned, that you've discovered this, as I've built some 12 locos in 7mm, with motors ranging from Portescaps to a Crailcrest (bit too wide for wasp-waisted Churchward fire boxes!), and all of them are on standard decoders, mostly Zimo, with no problems so far.

 

I've only got two with sound, (Howes Loksound v4) and neither of them has been tested with a "wheelspin load" train yet, so perhaps I need to do some experimentation before spending more of the hard-earned!

 

Best

Simon

Hi Simon.

 

There were 2 troublesome items, if I remember correctly.  One was an Ivatt 2-6-2T from an early DJH kit.  It had had 2 ABC gearboxes and motors in it - the second a smaller one to allow me to get different (bigger) speakers in.  Motors were Mashima and Cannon - neither of them large ones.  The loco ran fine on DC track and didn't cause any short circuits as far as I could see.  For some reason I never fathomed it didn't take to Loksound 1.1A sound chips particularly v4s. I couldn't fit an XL into it, so I got rid of it. It had run perfectly well with a v3.5 non-sound chip in it for quite a while before I tried the v4 sound chip.

 

The other item was my Peter Clark Thumper, built by Peter Clark himself from one of his kits.  It is fitted with one of his motor bogies, powered by a Mashima motor.   That had a v4 1.1A chip in it which it blew.  Again, I haven't a clue why. I could find no short circuits and it ran perfectly well on DC.  I fitted a v4 XL and it's been no trouble since.

 

I have got 3 Heljan locos and they have got XL chips in, as has a JLTRT Class 50 with double motors.  I never even considered using a 1.1A sound chip for them.  I also have a DJH RTR Class 03 which has a v3.5 1.1A sound chip in it and that's absolutely fine.  So, all in all, what the trouble was, I haven't a clue.  My 2 Class 108 DMUs have v3.5 XL chips in them but I fitted those before I even thought of trying the smaller chips  (I started fitting chips to my stock on the basis that 0 gauge had to have XL chips).

 

Opinions on RMweb seem to be divided - I recall there are a number of people who use small chips in DMUs with no problem whereas others would never fit anything but an XL - or equivalent.

 

I do have a Class 115 powered by 2 motors and each motor has a Zimo 645 (ie, small) chip, programmed to run together.  I've had no trouble with them at all.

 

So, all in all, I can't really offer you much advice.  If I knew why the v4 1.1As had blown, I probably could but it's still a mystery, I'm afraid. Sorry I can't be more helpful.

 

Rod

[Dmudriver]

Hi all.

 

As the signal interlocking is complete and as the weather has been good, I've been doing a lot of operating recently - and really enjoying it!!  I start off with fairly frantic movements of DMUs to simulate the morning rush hour (trains to Birkenhead for Liverpool, to Chester and to Wrexham), then slow that down and add in a parcels train and the Mark 1s for the services to Birmingham via Chester and Crewe and to Manchester via Helsby and Warrington BQ.  As I've said before, DCC makes for slow shunting, so I've not got to the afternoon rush hour yet!!

 

However, I have made an alteration to the station area.  I've lengthened the concourse by a couple of inches to allow more room for the station buildings.  This is part of an early photo showing the concourse end of the board:

 

 

As you can see, there are stiffeners on the walls.  I've cut the right hand diagonal one away (leaving the central vertical one in) from the top to the level of the baseboard.  My son-in-law made me a thin piece of strip metal with screw holes to stiffen the planks and this is fitted vertically down the centre of that part of the wall - it's just visible at the top centre of the next pic:

 

 

It goes down as far as the base board so it reduces (I hope) any tendency for the side wall planks to bow outwards.  The next pic shows better the extra space I've got:

 

 

It now needs the platform building up.  Unfortunately, the pic also shows the damaged buffer stop: I knew about it but forgot to fix it before I took the pics!!  (Apologies if the pics are not quite as good as usual - from no.2 onwards, they've been taken with my phone camera).  I tried very hard not to damage it, but using a saw and crowbar in a restricted space didn't make it too easy (the support was well nailed on!!). I've since fixed the buffer stop!  The darkish patch on the concourse surface is where I wiped away blood from a cut I managed to get somehow during the removal of the support!

 

The other job I've done, which I mentioned in an earlier post, is to interlock 2 of the points.  Basically, I had a potential problem of a bad conflict because ground signal 34 is not interlocked with any points.  The attached pic should help:  (it's a detail from the signal box diagram)

 

 

Movements in the Up direction (left to right) are all controlled by interlocked signals: it's in the Down direction that a problem can occur.  It's possible to reverse crossover 26 and allow a movement over it from an interlocked signal at the same time as leaving point 22 normal, possibly ending up with a side swipe ( a train bound for the platforms from the Down Main colliding with a shunting movement from the Up line into platform 1).  So, I've fitted up the point motors so that 26 will only reverse when 22 is reversed and 22 will only revert to normal when 26 is returned to normal.  [i'm pretty sure that that was how it worked in real life - I got a lot of help in the planning stage from flying signalman and beast66606 and I'm sure that was mentioned in one of the sequences]  This is how I've done it:

 

 

In the picture, both points are at normal.  The microswitches on each point cut the power to the other point when the circuit is opened.  Thus, in this picture, the microswitch on 26 is closed and therefore 22 will operate.  Once that has closed the circuit to 26, then 26 can be moved.  That movement will then open the circuit to 22 so that cannot move until 26 is back to normal.

 

I hope that's not too complicated!!  I needed to make some adjustments to the arms on the miroswitches (which are just glued to the Totoise motor bodies) to ensure decent contact.

 

I realise now, of course, that there are other interlocks I could do - eg 22 and 24 - but this one seemed to me to be the most obvious - and possibly most dangerous - so I did this one.  And there, I think, for now is as much interlocking as I'm going to do - unless future operating throws up any more anomalies!! 

 

Next job, I think, will be to build up the platform and then I'll aim to finish the Coal Tank and start on the 131.

 

More soon.

 

Rod

Edited June 27, 2014 by Dmudriver

[pwr]

Whose kit is the 131 Rod?

 

Paul

[Dmudriver]

Whose kit is the 131 Rod?

 

Paul

It's an Easybuild 122 kit, Paul.  Shawn cut the sides specially for me.  A number of 122s went to Scotland (3, I think) and were converted to parcels use by cutting an extra double door into each side.  The seating was taken out and the windows painted white: obviously door handles taken off, too.

 

I fancied one as a) it's unusual and 2) it's a nice short parcels train that can be run in multiple with passenger DMUs.

 

Rod

[pwr]

Rod

 

You will be going down the same route as me with my Hydra unit. Careful with the 122 - there seems to be a common view that the only difference between the 122 and the 121 is the headcode box. Class 121 were built by Pressed Steel whilst the 122 are Gloucester units and the chassis/underframes are not the same. The 122 has a similar drive train and configuration to the 119 units.

 

I am not sure if Shawn's kits fall into the same trap. I have a part built Westdale 122 which I acquired many years ago for GBP20 including wheels and bogies - it was cheap even then. I didn't model in 7mm at the time but the price was so good I thought I would finish it and sell it. Still waiting to finish it but moved up a scale since then!

 

Progress on Notley very slow mainly because of work commitments. Currently in Jamaica on holiday which is why I cant find the pound symbol!

 

Paul R

[Dmudriver]

Rod

 

You will be going down the same route as me with my Hydra unit. Careful with the 122 - there seems to be a common view that the only difference between the 122 and the 121 is the headcode box. Class 121 were built by Pressed Steel whilst the 122 are Gloucester units and the chassis/underframes are not the same. The 122 has a similar drive train and configuration to the 119 units.

 

I am not sure if Shawn's kits fall into the same trap. I have a part built Westdale 122 which I acquired many years ago for GBP20 including wheels and bogies - it was cheap even then. I didn't model in 7mm at the time but the price was so good I thought I would finish it and sell it. Still waiting to finish it but moved up a scale since then!

 

Progress on Notley very slow mainly because of work commitments. Currently in Jamaica on holiday which is why I cant find the pound symbol!

 

Paul R

Thanks, Paul..  I'll watch for that.

 

Hope you enjoy the rest of your holiday.

 

Rod

[Dmudriver]

Hi all.

 

It's been a while since I last posted - mainly because of the decent weather we've been having!!  [it's not just me, I think, a lot of threads on RMweb aren't showing much activity.]

 

I have done a fair bit of operating/playing, though, and had a couple of friends to visit and play.  Then there was fixing the cab windows back into my 33 and altering the destination numbers to blank white spaces.  I've also fitted the board filler piece at the end of the platform I mentioned in my last post.

 

However, yesterday was decision day.  The pal who's doing the station buildings for me came over with mockups and we looked at the platform surface and decided it had to go.  I'd done it with Slater's plastikard paving and, as time had gone on, it had started bubbling.  Add to that you could see the joins, the paving was too small (not 3'x2' slabs) and Keith's confirming my thoughts that it didn't look too good, so I started to rip it up!!  I've finished the job today.

 

Here's a pic of what it's reverted to:

 

 

The plan now is to fill in the gaps with wood and filler to create a flat, smooth surface to lay individual slabs on.  Yes, "individual slabs", you read it correctly!!  How many I'll need, I don't know, but Keith did it for Apethorne Junction, so I can do it for West Kirby Town!!   I'll try and keep count!  It's nearly 4 square feet for the platforms and must be another couple for the concourse area - plenty to go at!!

 

We also cut the backscene board so that it fits inside the righthand support and that gives us more room at the back of the station: we've now got enough room for a decent representation of the station buildings and some of the house backs to the side of the station.  (The plan is to build the houses round the wall support.)  This is the concourse area we now have available - I still need to cut and lay more timber for the platform:

 

 

So that's the plan for the next jobs:  I'll come back here with more when I've made more progress - and see if I'm still sane after cutting out paving slabs!!!

 

Rod

Edited July 21, 2014 by Dmudriver

[3 link]

Hi Rod,

 

Have you thought of using DAS modelling clay instead.

 

ATB,

 

Martyn.

[Dmudriver]

Hi Rod,

 

Have you thought of using DAS modelling clay instead.

 

ATB,

 

Martyn.

To be quite honest, Martyn, no, I hadn't.  My immediate reaction is that I might need it too thin to be able to scribe (1, maybe 2, mm thick at the most).  However, I've done a quick search on Google and it seems maybe that fear could be groundless, particularly if I put white glue down first.

 

Have you experience of using it?  Or is there anywhere you could point me to?  I've relooked at photos of West Kirby station and the platform was mainly tarmac anyway with just one strip of slabs along the edge from the late 1970s.  The concourse seems to have been slabs, though.

 

You've got me thinking now!!!

 

Rod

 

 

Edit: date changed - no railway anywhere in the 1070s!!

Edited July 22, 2014 by Dmudriver

[3 link]

Hi Rod,

 

I personally have not tried it yet but I have seen some fantastic results that others have achieved with the clay.

 

Gordon and Maggie Graviett ( Ditchling green and Pempoule ) have used it extensively not just on paving but walls and buildings etc, and there's also Chaz of this parish that has used it on some cobbled sets on his layout Dock green.

 

Hope this is of some help, also I had a chat with Martyn Welch a while back regarding what to use to replicate tarmac, and he said to use very fine ( emery cloth ) and then to tone down the black colour by rubbing some talc into it to create the greying effect.

 

Martyn.

Edited July 22, 2014 by 3 link

[pwr]

Rod

 

I used it on my 'Cressing' box. Its easy to work with and sands down fine. Scribing bricks is probably harder than scribing paving slabs and the 2mm thickness is plenty. For West Kirby I would use the white variety as opposed to the red.  You can get the stuff in all good toy shops sold as air drying clay and its cheaper than DAS which comes from a model or hobby or croft store and is more expensive! Put a layer of PVA down first so it sticks better. If you get bits wrong you can always fill them and start again

 

Cutting individual slabs is not difficult. You might want to invest in a guillotine - Proops sell them but they are cheaper on Amazon. I cut all the slates for my boxes by hand and finished them off last night. I must admit its taken rather longer than I thought but the effort was worth it.

 

Paul R

[Dmudriver]

Hi Martyn and Paul.

 

Thanks for your comments.  I think I'll try DAS, or something similar, but I'll do some experimenting first before I do the actual platforms.  I'd forgotten about Chaz's cobbles, Martyn - I'll have a look back on his thread (which I do follow, actually).  I'm not sure about using emery cloth as I've found in the past that hiding the joins is difficult.

 

I've thought about a guillotine, Paul, but I'll leave making any decision until I've tried the DAS.  If I just need edging slabs and the rest tarmac (DAS), I'll hand cut them.

 

Rod

Edited July 23, 2014 by Dmudriver

[Simond]

Rod

 

I made a paving slab platform, much smaller than yours, by painting plastic sheet in varying shades of grey, and toning it down with talc. I then cut the sheets up into paving slab sized pieces, and laid them on a wooden block. I used Slaters brick sheets for the sides. I don't have a photo of it, so can't post anything this week, but I think it looks pretty good, as the slabs were laid in a different order to the way they were originally painted, so the colour variation seemed to work.

 

I think you'd need a guillotine for a big platform like yours

 

Hth

Simon

[Simond]

Rod

 

this site was posted in the Monk's Ferry thread - there are some nice shots of WK - worth a look if you haven't seen them already - they are well down near the end

 

http://www.flickriver.com/groups/1068263@N25/pool/interesting/

 

best

Simon

[Dmudriver]

Rod

 

this site was posted in the Monk's Ferry thread - there are some nice shots of WK - worth a look if you haven't seen them already - they are well down near the end

 

http://www.flickriver.com/groups/1068263@N25/pool/interesting/

 

best

Simon

Thanks for that link, Simon.  Some really interesting photos.  I'd not seen any of the West Kirby ones before.  I did at one stage think of modelling Birkenhead Woodside - and Liverpool Central (High Level) as well, come to that - as they were both terminus stations with cramped approaches.  However, I'd have had to make compromises with the number of platforms, so eventually settled on West Kirby instead.  And I've no regrets about that at all as the more I operate the layout, the more interesting it seems to become.  I'll expand in my next post.

 

Rod

[Dmudriver]

Hi all.

 

I've not much to report construction-wise on the layout as I've spent so much time operating it!!!  I've started filling in the gaps in the platform base with some proprietary filler but haven't got round to buying any DAS, or equivalent, yet.

 

As I said, I've been operating - and I use the word deliberately as it's getting a bit more serious than "playing"!!!!  It really is fascinating!!  The mix of DMUs on regular services with loco-hauled trains being reversed is really interesting to do.  Obviously more so with having to use the signals correctly.  I've had some visitors round - including 8 or 9 lads from the Club yesterday.  Most of them non-DCC, and not used to operating a terminal station, but they've all found it fascinating - and want to come back!!  Maybe it was the lunch at the pub that did it!!

 

I've started multiing up the 2- and 3-car 108s which adds more operating interest.  The next variation is to assume the 03 shunter has had to return to Birkenhead for some repairs and hasn't been replaced so a spare loco will be needed so that each loco-hauled train has a different loco on the rear to take it away.

 

I've done a video of the 5-car consist leaving the station and it can be found here:

 

 

 

 

Enjoy it.  I'm afraid the focus isn't the best and the leading car gives an alarming lurch on the crossover (I think it's to do with the Kadee couplings).  

 

I've done a couple more featuring the 5-car arriving and then being split, but unfortunately the upload to Youtube failed so I'll aim to add those tomorrow.

 

I'm very aware of the lack of scenery and I'm determined to learn how to do it, so I've booked myself on a course at Missenden Abbey in October.  Then I should be confident enough to get going on it.

 

More soon.

 

Rod

 

 

EDIT:        I meant to add that the sharp-eyed will notice the front lights on the 2-car are lit, which they shouldn't be in the middle of a train.  That's another job to sort out - making front and rear lights separately switchable.  It shouldn't be too difficult as I've done it with my locos but the trailer car of the 2-car has a function-only (I think that's the right word) chip for the lights which may prove a bit more difficult.  Watch this space!!

Edited August 7, 2014 by Dmudriver

[Dmudriver]

Hi all.

 

A decent day weatherwise meant some work got done on the layout (my teacher kids won't like that grammar!!!).  Not a lot as I had a frustrating few hours doing more videos (of which more later) but I did start fitting the Outer signals.  I drilled a couple of holes in the baseboard and then filed them to the correct shape.  Fitted, but not permanently, this is what the signals look like from the station side:  the white "thing" behind is the first attempt at a scenic break which will be a bridge!!

 

 

The secondman's view from under the bridge - "you've got a red!"  [i may have to assume there's a banner repeater on this side of the bridge]:

 

 

They aren't wired up yet, but I've made the holes big enough so that the wires can come above the board.  This is how the wires from the Down signal will reach the GF Controls control unit which will be mounted on the wall behind - obviously they'll be extended!!:

 

 

Finally, the holes go right through the board and to try and keep moisture, spiders, earwigs and any other underboard hazards away from the servos, I've sealed (with bathroom sealant!!) a couple of old yoghurt pots around the holes.  They look rather strange and I hope they don't act as an invitation to any wasps to start building nests on or near them!!!  (Yes, I've had a wasps' nest under the board before now!!!):

 

 

Hopefully I'll get the signals sitting properly on cork and wired up over the weekend, but if not, then early next week.

 

I've a couple more videos to post but I'll do that later tonight - they need editing first.  But more of that later, after I've been out for a meal!!!

 

Rod

 

PS    Looking out of my window at the nearer yoghurt pot, I think it's going to need disguising somehow!!!

[two tone green]

Very nice Rod, looking forward to seeing how you mount the servo's

 

Like the video of the five car departure, nice sound.