West Kirby Town: narrow gauge is coming to town.

[pwr]

Rod

 

If you can't find it I have 4 in store in case it happens again to my diesels. You can have one of them. So far my Hymek , 37 and 47 have suffered and on the 37 before I even had power in it. It's about time Heljan found a proper solution.

 

Paul R

[Dmudriver]

Rod

 

If you can't find it I have 4 in store in case it happens again to my diesels. You can have one of them. So far my Hymek , 37 and 47 have suffered and on the 37 before I even had power in it. It's about time Heljan found a proper solution.

 

Paul R

 

Wasn't sure which tab to click, Paul - Thanks or Agree.   I wanted to click both!!  I'll check my spares and I'll let you know if that's OK.  This isn't the first that's gone in this loco and it's taken a while to show itself properly.  Are the later locos OK?

 

Rod

[pwr]

Rod

 

Ok no problem. Later ones seem OK but I have no reason to understand why. The Peak has gone back to the old style drive train whereas some of the later ones had it based around that developed for the Class 60. It will be interesting to see if the same result occurs in the retooled 37 which has the original drive train -I am not getting one of those so others will need to comment!

 

Paul R

[Happy Hippo]

Rod

 

Ok no problem. Later ones seem OK but I have no reason to understand why. The Peak has gone back to the old style drive train whereas some of the later ones had it based around that developed for the Class 60. It will be interesting to see if the same result occurs in the retooled 37 which has the original drive train -I am not getting one of those so others will need to comment!

 

Paul R

I have often wondered whether there is a reaction with the type of plastic that the gears are made of and the grease/oil that is used for lubrication.

 

For instance, I seem to remember about reading not to lubricate Delrin gears or the chain as it is self lubricating'

 

The problem of split gears is not confined to Heljan  as I know of a lot of Mainline 4 mm scale locos suffered from similar problems.  

 

At the end of the day I suspect it is down to cost and that it is much cheaper to injection mould gears from slippery plastic rather than to have them hobbed out from brass or steel.

[pwr]

Richard

 

I think it's more to do with the brass worm/plastic gear interface since it always appears to be the same gear that splits. In my opinion Heljan should supply these replacements free of charge given this is a known design fault.

 

That said I wonder if there is an aftermarket opportunity or a complete brass gear train replacement. I doubt it would be cheap though.

 

Paul R

[Happy Hippo]

Richard

 

I think it's more to do with the brass worm/plastic gear interface since it always appears to be the same gear that splits. In my opinion Heljan should supply these replacements free of charge given this is a known design fault.

 

That said I wonder if there is an aftermarket opportunity or a complete brass gear train replacement. I doubt it would be cheap though.

 

Paul R

Paul thanks for that.

 

Has anyone got accurate dimensions of the Heljan gears?  

 

You never know there might be a commercial gear  that will fit that is already out there.

[Dmudriver]

From what I heard, it's more to do with the fit of the gear wheel onto the metal spindle (if the latter is the right word).  I understood the spindle is slightly bigger than the hole so that eventually the gear wheel splits under the pressure

 

I am under the impression that the problem has been sorted and that it was only the Hymek, 47 and 37 that suffered.  I could well be wrong, but those are the locos I've heard of with the fault.

 

 

Rod.

[Simond]

The shaft needs to be bigger than the hole in the gear, in order that the gear is fixed on it - an "interference fit". I expect that the shaft is also knurled, to resist the gear slipping on it when under torque. The gear is therefore hit by a double whammy - firstly, there is the hoop stress caused by it being stretched over the shaft, and secondly, the knurl will create notches in the plastic.

 

Notches are notorious stress raisers, and most engineers avoid them like the plague (unless designing a ring-pull can, of course) and plastics (generally) have a tendency to creep - that is that they slowly deform to reduce stress. Whilst creep can be a good thing, I suspect that it is part of the failure mechanism, although it is possible that there is a chemical effect due to a mismatch between the grease and the gear, which could make it much more susceptible to cracking. If the gear is nylon, the humidity, or lack thereof, will also affect the resistance of the material to failure.

 

I imagine that the knurl causes damage to the gearwheel, and then it is simply a matter of time before the notch grows into a crack, and propagates through & splits the gearwheel. The time will be longer or shorter, but the crack will propagate. Temperature changes, humidity changes & amount of work the loco does will all affect the life expectancy.

 

It may be that removing the gearwheels from the shafts when new, degreasing, lightly polishing the knurl, boring the wheel to a snug, but not-interference fit, and fixing it with epoxy might avoid the problem, but it seems like a lot of work on a new loco.

 

Perhaps someone who "does gearboxes" could purchase a job lot of brass gears, made to measure, I'm sure there's a market.

 

Best

Simon

[pwr]

Simon

 

I think you probably nailed it there. I estimate I still have another 3 gears to crack on that basis!

 

Paul R

[MarshLane]

Simon

 

I think you probably nailed it there. I estimate I still have another 3 gears to crack on that basis!

 

Paul R

 

 

Sssh don't say that - I've got about 8 in that case!!! 

 

Rich

[Dmudriver]

Hi all.

 

Progress is being made!!  The Mark 1s are back in town!!  Here they are in platform 1:

 

  

 

To be honest, the pics are a bit of a fix because the coaches have no couplings yet - but they don't look too bad!!

 

This is a pic of a new bogie - it's not a very good picture as it was in shadow and I've had to increase the light level on the pic.**  What it does show is that I've a bit of painting/spraying to do - 8 bogies in total!!

 

 

Finally, and nothing to do with progress - but I liked the line-up in the stabling point!!

 

  

 

More soon.

 

Rod

 

** And I've just noticed that the buffer at the end of the coach looks like it's twisted round a bit.  A job for tomorrow now as I've locked the shed up!!

[Simond]

Rod

 

The Mk1s look great, the backdrop is still mind-blowingly excellent, and I reckon the 08 needs grubbifying...

 

Best

Simon

[Dmudriver]

Rod

 

The Mk1s look great, the backdrop is still mind-blowingly excellent, and I reckon the 08 needs grubbifying...

 

Best

Simon

 

Hi Simon.

 

Thanks for the compliment about the backscene.  As for the 08, the only picture I've got shows it in bright, shining condition outside Swindon works - presumably after an overhaul , as it was at Chester before and after the date of the pic.  I'm undecided about what to do, although I'm thinking about trying to take a bit of the shine off, but still have it pretty clean.  Maybe an all over spray with very dilute matt weathered black?  I'm open to suggestions.

 

Rod

[muddys-blues]

Great pics as usual Rod, hope all is well with yourself ?

 

Best regards

Craig

[Dmudriver]

Great pics as usual Rod, hope all is well with yourself ?

 

Best regards

Craig

 

Hi Craig.

 

Thanks for the compliment re the pics and everything's coming along OK, thanks - physio is being effective and I'm walking much better now.  All being well, we're thinking about coming back to the Llyn in September/October.  Maybe see you then - unless you are going to Doncaster on June 3rd?  Is anyone else going to Doncaster, too, come to that?

 

Rod

[Dmudriver]

Hi all.

 

The jig for the Dingham couplings has arrived.  It's my design, 3D printed by a pal at the club.  Here's a couple of pics of it - from the top and the front:

 

 

The intention is that it sits snugly between the rails: however, due to a slight fault with the machine, the section that sits between the rails is only 31.5mm so I've added a couple of strips of masking tape to fill the gap.  You can see the gap in the next pic but not the masking tape, unfortunately.  It does sit nice and snugly between the rails now, though.  This will be altered in future, if any more are called for.

 

 

The black marks are for an omission of mine (and I'm due a black mark for that!!  ).  The idea is that the hook lies in the slot when the glue is setting, thus ensuring that all the hooks are centred and at the same height.  Like this:

 

 

However, until 4 o'clock a couple of mornings ago, I'd forgotten this:

 

 

This is the hook and loop and, as you can see, there's a stop at the bottom to stop the loop raising too high.  I hadn't allowed for that in the design.  I rang my pal later in the morning (I didn't think he'd have appreciated a call at 4 am!!)  but he'd already printed it.  The intention then was that we'd go to the club on Wednesday and he'd machine a space out: unfortunately he couldn't make it.  So he posted it to me and I'm going to use my Dremel on it - very gently.  Apparently the material won't file, but it can be drilled.  The area to the right of the slot is the bit to be removed to allow the stop to fit into the jig.  It's needed to make sure the tip of the hook is level (near enough!) with the buffers.  Wish me luck - I'll report back when I've done it!! 

 

If we do any more - and we will if there's a call for them - the 2 errors above will be rectified: as it is, though, it's perfectly good for me to use.

 

More soon.

 

Rod

Edited May 20, 2017 by Dmudriver

[muddys-blues]

Good evening Rod, sorry I can't make it to Donny, it's one of the busiest weeks of the year "hopefully" for us Whitsun week. I look forward to meeting up with you in the Autumn, I have just been to a wedding at my old stomping ground this weekend, including the reception being at Gigg Lane Social Club, somebody said the area had gone up estimation since a certain Mr Morgan left town many moons ago   , we had half hour an hour yesterday loitering on the Trackside at the ELR, but a cup of tea only was quaffed, I didn't take any pictures as nowt much was 'appening.

 

Speak soon Rod.

 

Best regards

Craig.

[Dmudriver]

Good evening Rod, sorry I can't make it to Donny, it's one of the busiest weeks of the year "hopefully" for us Whitsun week. I look forward to meeting up with you in the Autumn, I have just been to a wedding at my old stomping ground this weekend, including the reception being at Gigg Lane Social Club, somebody said the area had gone up estimation since a certain Mr Morgan left town many moons ago   , we had half hour an hour yesterday loitering on the Trackside at the ELR, but a cup of tea only was quaffed, I didn't take any pictures as nowt much was 'appening.

 

Speak soon Rod.

 

Best regards

Craig.

 

That comment about Gigg Lane really had me laughing, Craig!!!  Hope you had a good weekend.  I did think it could be a busy week for you and that you wouldn't be going to Donny but thought I'd mention it in case.

 

Rod

[MarshLane]

Hi all.

 

The jig for the Dingham couplings has arrived.  It's my design, 3D printed by a pal at the club.  

 

If we do any more - and we will if there's a call for them - the 2 errors above will be rectified: as it is, though, it's perfectly good for me to use.

 

More soon.

 

Rod

 

 

Hi Rod,

Really good idea that. Im looking to use Dingham's on the new O gauge at this end, so if you are printing anymore, can you print me one, and let me know what the cost is.  Can pm you for Paypal or BACS details, but it looks a great idea not only for while the glue sets, but gets everything at the same height too!  I have to ask tho .. what on earth were you doing thinking about Dinghams at 4am in the morning!  Is that is a question one just doesn't ask!

 

Im hoping to make Donny on Saturday afternoon if your going to be about, would be good to put a face to the name!  Although its going to be 2-3pm before I get there as I stupidly arranged to be in Glasgow the day before, so I'm travelling back!

 

Rich

[Dmudriver]

HI Rich.

 

My pal and I have talked about producing them, but first, I need to check it works "in cold blood" (so to speak) before we go any further.  So, I'll be setting some up on my stock just to really test them out, then we'll decide whether to offer them for sale or make any alterations first.  We don't really want to sell any before we are satisfied with them.

 

Yes, it will be good to put a face to a name, so I'll PM you with my mobile number a few days before Doncaster and to confirm arrangements.

 

Rod

[Suddaby]

Hi Rod, I've been following this for a while now, and re-reading it! I like the urban terminus feel you have got, those houses/backscene are just stunning.

I was wondering about a couple of things, firstly, do you regret not having the shed insulated. It got mentioned early on that it was a conscious decision not to, and wondered 5 or 6 winters on whether it has caused you any issues - not just you being cold, but with condensation etc, even does it get far too hot in summer.

Secondly, I wondered about the operation, do you have a sequence or timetable to follow? I was an operator on The Laird's, Bradfield Gloucester Square, which opened up a whole new area of playing trains, that I really enjoy, and now we are starting to operate his new layout Leeds City North, you may have seen the thread. Your station looks to have a similar operating potential to BGS.

 

Many thanks.

 

All the best,

 

Kevin

[2ManySpams]

Hi Rod, interested in your experiences with the couplings as I think I've settled on the same for Pencarrow. Love the buildings along the backscene by the way.

[Happy Hippo]

Hi Rod, interested in your experiences with the couplings as I think I've settled on the same for Pencarrow. Love the buildings along the backscene by the way.

I've also decided to go down the Dingham route for my new shunting plank called Splott West Sidings.

 

The close up pictures of the couplings are very interesting but I do have a question:

 

Have you reinforced them by laminating in extra n/s strip under the loop, or is it merely the massive magnification which highlights the cusp of the etch?

 

I ask because I have  read a number of other modellers do reinforce the loops making them both more robust and it adds a bit more weight to the loop which helps in it's operation.

[Dmudriver]

Hi Rod, I've been following this for a while now, and re-reading it! I like the urban terminus feel you have got, those houses/backscene are just stunning.

I was wondering about a couple of things, firstly, do you regret not having the shed insulated. It got mentioned early on that it was a conscious decision not to, and wondered 5 or 6 winters on whether it has caused you any issues - not just you being cold, but with condensation etc, even does it get far too hot in summer.

Secondly, I wondered about the operation, do you have a sequence or timetable to follow? I was an operator on The Laird's, Bradfield Gloucester Square, which opened up a whole new area of playing trains, that I really enjoy, and now we are starting to operate his new layout Leeds City North, you may have seen the thread. Your station looks to have a similar operating potential to BGS.

 

Many thanks.

 

All the best,

 

Kevin

 

Hi Kevin.

 

Thanks for the comments about the terminus.  I am really pleased with those house backs - as I've said before (quite often, I think!!)   To answer your questions:

 

No, I have no regrets about not insulating the shed: in winter, I have an oil-filled heater that I leave on at night (and during the day, if necessary) when it's very cold.  Generally it keeps the temperature at about 5 degrees C.  When I want to work in there I have a convection heater which gets it up to around 18+ degrees in 15 - 20 minutes and it's then nice and toasty to work in.  In summer it does get warm - it was 34 degrees in there this afternoon but I opened both doors and the window and it cooled down - to about 30 degrees!!  But it was nearly that temperature outside anyway!!  I have got some insulation in that I put carpet tiles on the floor and then I've got pieces of carpet over that where the circulating area is.   I've had no condensation problems and I can't honestly say I've had any problems with rails expanding and contracting.  There is one problem joint but that's more to do with Peco bullhead rail meeting C&L flat bottomed rail!!

 

If I did it again, I'd have another one, maybe 2, windows to cool it down but, as I've said, I normally just open both doors and that gets a draught going through it.  Secondly, I'd specify a heavier duty roofing felt: the one I had started giving trouble (leaking) after only 3/4 years - it was only thin and just nailed down.  I've now had it reroofed with thick, heat sealed bitumen sheets which should last me a lot, lot longer.  I may be lucky in the position that my shed is in, I suppose - though I've never really considered this before.  It's got a 6' fence along one end, a garage at the other end and trees and bushes behind.  There's only the front that's not protected but there's only 20' of garden between it and the house and the houses in the row, to some extent, protect it from the prevailing winds.  Having no experience of sheds elsewhere, I can't really say whether that's relevant or not.  However, it certainly wasn't part of my initial thinking!1

 

Secondly, sequence or timetable?  Not really - in the sense of anything written down.  I have a sequence in my head which, for a long session's operating, starts with movements of DMUs in and out - to simulate the morning rush hour.  This takes the form of regular trains to Birkenhead Park (change for Liverpool), Chester, Wrexham and Manchester.  Then, as the rush hour passes, I get the Mark 1s for Crewe/Birmingham and Chester/Shrewsbury/ Birmingham either in as ECS or from one of the sidings.  They go out and return 3 or 4 times during the session.  That gives some shunting interest.  Then there's the parcels stock which runs according to how busy the mail order depot is.  That gives more shunting interest.  Throughout this, though, there are still the regular DMU services and it's interesting to fit those in between the shunting moves.  Then there's the fuel tanker to bring in, and the inspection saloon makes frequent visits (I've assumed it's based at WKT).  Then back to the evening rush hour!!   And also, if I'm operating a weekend timetable there's the steam shuttle which does 6 round trips a day from New Brighton and this often needs to access the sidings to take water.  However, those movements are compensated by fewer Mark 1 and parcels movements (and therefore a bit less shunting!)  So nothing in writing but the theme is in my head.  To be honest, I couldn't replicate the actual service as it would be too boring - just units in and out from Liverpool.  Only the intervals vary according to the time of day!!

 

When I have visitors, that's the sort of sequence I run to.  I act as Regional Control (or some such level of management!!) and decide which trains are running next and to/from which road in the fiddle yard and to/from which platform or siding: the visitors operate the points and signals and drive the trains.  I'll vary what runs according to what they're interested in - or in some cases, capable of!!

 

I did follow The Laird's BGS thread and was quite disappointed when it finished.  I did see the layout at an exhibition once but can't remember where it was.  I do follow his new one - Leeds City North.  If I remember rightly, though, wasn't BGS worked off an actual timetable?  

 

Hope all that answers your questions but if there's anything else you want to know, just ask!!

 

Rod

 

 

Edit: To Add;         I can't leave a sequence part way through as the fiddle yard is outside and I don't fancy leaving stock out there overnight, so everything must be brought into the shed when operating is finished for the day.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Dmudriver

[Dmudriver]

I've also decided to go down the Dingham route for my new shunting plank called Splott West Sidings.

 

The close up pictures of the couplings are very interesting but I do have a question:

 

Have you reinforced them by laminating in extra n/s strip under the loop, or is it merely the massive magnification which highlights the cusp of the etch?

 

I ask because I have  read a number of other modellers do reinforce the loops making them both more robust and it adds a bit more weight to the loop which helps in it's operation.

 

Hi Richard.

 

No, I haven't added anything to the loop, although, like you, I do know of others who've reinforced them.  The maximum load on mine will be only 4 bogie vehicles and speeds will be relatively slow, so I don't envisage problems.  If any crop up, solutions will have to be found!

 

Yes, the massive magnification highlights the cusp of the etch.  It's hard to see normal size, but I do run my finger over all the edges, just to make sure there's no rough spots.  Even though it's there, I don't think it will cause any problems.

 

Rod