West Kirby Town: narrow gauge is coming to town.

[Jon Fitness]

I agree David - the Westdale attempt at the Derby standard GRP roof domes is not the best. The biggest error is that the angle of the downward curve towards the front is far too sharp, giving a hunched appearance, while the guttering is too pronounced and the whole thing sits slightly too far forward. Getting the castings closer to the real thing involves removing large amounts of whitemetal from the rear, the front and the top. The best photo that I've found to help with this is on page 12 of Bradford Barton's album DMUs Countrywide. This has a large side profile view of the roof dome, showing that the downward curve towards the front starts level with the rear edge of the driver's side window - ie almost twice the distance from the front compared to the Westdale casting. Adjusting for this produces a much gentler and more rounded shape; shaving the excess whitemetal from the rear of the casting then allows it to sit in the correct location, and replacing the guttering with brass or plastic strip helps to improve the front appearance.

 

DMUs are a bit tricky in 7mm - the body side profiles are another issue, with the Westdale lightweight 108 lacking the gentle Mark 1 profile and looking like a heavyweight ScR 107 because the aluminium shells have been pressed to the wrong shape, and the opposite being the case with the EasyBuild suburbans, which have been incorrectly moulded to the Mark 1 profile. It's all a bit like 4mm modelling back in the 70s when MTK kits were the only answer for modelling most DMU classes, so I have maximum respect for 7mm modellers who manage to produce such great-looking results from these kits.

 

David

In fairness to Westdale, their kits date from an earlier age of slightly lower expectations and really, they havent been updated. (Pressed/stamped Aluminium shells ; Exley coaches anyone?) The fact that such a range of DMU kits exists at all is quite good.

The guttering round the top of the cab seems to match the pressed out guttering around the bodyshell so if that was altered it would still have to match all round. Until a newer range appears (including Easybuilds small range) its all we've got! Although I've never seen one built, I wouldn't mind Westdale 3 car 104 unit...

Jon F.

[David Siddall]

I reckon we should tip a 'fair play to Easybuild' into the conversation too just so as neither manufacturer gets the idea we're having a pop – just discussing possible enhancements from a personal preference point of view. I was fortunate enough to be able to spend a fair amount of time talking with the Easybuild guys at the Bristol Show last January and they openly and pragmatically acknowledge that their use of a common bodyside profile for all their coaching stock and DMUs (if I remember correctly it's an extrusion to Mk1 profile) allows them to offer a larger range of prototypes more economically.

 

I'm just happy we've got such a choice of DMUs in (IMO) reasonably-priced kit form – I'm still going to have a try at that cab roof mod' though ;-)

 

David

Edited December 21, 2012 by David Siddall

[David Siddall]

...and the destination indicator boxes look like they'll need a bit of attention too after looking at a couple more pics: http://tomcurtisrailgallery.weebly.com/uploads/6/9/0/3/6903499/55033chinnor280609.jpg and http://www.hondawanderer.com/55032_Droitwich_1991.jpg in particular – still Westdale for me though on the basis of the more representative bodyside profile.

 

David

[Dmudriver]

...and the destination indicator boxes look like they'll need a bit of attention too after looking at a couple more pics: http://tomcurtisrailgallery.weebly.com/uploads/6/9/0/3/6903499/55033chinnor280609.jpg and http://www.hondawanderer.com/55032_Droitwich_1991.jpg in particular – still Westdale for me though on the basis of the more representative bodyside profile.

 

David

It's interesting seeing the guard at the open door in the second pic.  I did that on my last retest (I work on a preserved railway) and got a sound boll.... piece of advice (rather forcibly put!!) about falling out!!

 

I do see what you mean about the destination boxes, too, David.  Look forward to your DMU when you get going on it.

 

Merry Christmas to all.

 

Rod

[Dmudriver]

Hi all.

 

A Happy New Year to everyone.  The holiday period has been a bit busy, but I've managed to get some modelling done.  In fact, I've now finished all 4 of the C&L plain turnouts (2 x L, 2 x R).  A pic of the 4 of them is here.  They've all got JLTRT tiebars - some are neater that others (if you look closely) but they all work correctly - at least when hand operated.   Fitting with Tortoise motors will be the real test.

 

 

Building them was a fascinating and interesting learning curve and I really enjoyed it.  They got better as I went on, but they all accept examples of my most intolerant stock.  At the moment, I've not trimmed the rails to length - I'll leave that until the slip is finished because that is the key piece in the station throat "jigsaw": the 4 turnouts will fit around it.  By the looks of it I'll probably have to lose a couple of sleepers and associated rail at the heel end of the points, but better to make them too big than too small!!  I've left the trimmed templates stuck to the sleepers as I don't want to risk any damage taking them off - and they'll be covered in ballast, anyway.

 

So, the next job is the single slip.  The template is fastened to the board I build them on - having spent a lot of time ensuring that the straights are absolutely straight through the 2 pieces of paper.  Pic here:

 

 

First job is to cut the sleepers from their sprues and get them stuck down - then for the real challenge!!  I'll keep you posted.

 

I did manage an hour's running on New Year's Day - during a short spell of dry, sunny (but cold) weather.  Everything OK, but will be better when the new turnouts and slip are down.  The extension into the garden is dry as a bone, which I'm thankful for!!

 

More soon.

 

Rod

Edited January 3, 2013 by Dmudriver

[Dmudriver]

Hi all

 

I've been a bit quiet on here this last week, but I have been getting some modelling done - on the single slip.  I've started another thread to describe how I'm doing that as I couldn't find much elsewhere and it's a bit challenging!!  I thought others might benefit from my experience.

 

If anyone's interested, this is the thread:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/66772-building-a-cl-single-slip/?p=909846

 

 

Rod

[Dmudriver]

Hi all

 

I've been a bit quiet of late, after finishing the C&L pointwork.  Mainly because, for some reason, "life" has got in the way of railway modelling for a month or so.  It looks like it will be another month before I can get back into it but there is no way that WKT is stopping as it is.

 

In fact, the station buildings are being worked on by a pal of mine - he's even been on a site visit to the real West Kirby to get the "feel" of the place.

 

I think (although I hate to admit it) that I've a deep down reluctance to start ripping up the pointwork I laid last year, even though I know it needs to be done.  It will be done but, as I say, probably starting next month.  I think also an improvement in the weather (hopefully!!) will help:  the shed gets nice and warm and cosy and the fluorescent lighting's good, but there's nothing like having the doors open, with warm air outside and plenty of natural light!!

 

I will be back with more progress soon.

 

Rod

[Softvark]

I know what you mean about warm and cosy modelling environments - I've not managed to stay in the garage for more than a few moments for what seems like weeks now. Never mind - it's given me an excuse to build some rolling stock

 

If you're like me then once you actually start replacing the pointwork you'll wonder why you ever put it off in the first place as it won't be as bad as you think.

 

Julian 

[Dmudriver]

I know what you mean about warm and cosy modelling environments - I've not managed to stay in the garage for more than a few moments for what seems like weeks now. Never mind - it's given me an excuse to build some rolling stock

 

If you're like me then once you actually start replacing the pointwork you'll wonder why you ever put it off in the first place as it won't be as bad as you think.

 

Julian 

Hi Julian.

 

I think you're right:  I was in the shed yesterday with the lad who's doing the buildings and I was tempted just to try and take some pointwork up!!  But I've a few other things to do first, so I'll get back to it next month.

 

Rod

[Dmudriver]

HI all.

 

After a couple of months' relative inactivity (model railway-wise, at least!) - which included a fantastic fortnight's holiday walking in the snow in the Swiss Alps - work has restarted on WKT.

 

I gritted my teeth and ripped up most of the original pointwork.  I use the expression "ripped up" quite deliberately:  I had intended to take the points up whole and see if they could be reused.  No chance!! - they almost fell apart in my hands!!  So they got ripped up and binned.

 

These pics show the state of play today:

 

 

 

The string is to indicate a straight line through the platform approach complex!!  I've tried a dry run with the new pointwork - which needs cutting to size and first indications are that the end of the right-hand platform road nearest the points (looking in the second pic) will have to be moved over to the right an inch or two so I'll have to realign that section of the track.  Obviously, the outside siding will need the same work, but the advantage is that I will have a wider platform and more room for the starter signals.  The new points are longer than the old so the curves will be less sharp but it means the whole complex will extend further away from the platforms to keep the necessary platform length.  At the same time, the approaches to the left-hand platform and sidings will be adjusted slightly and the points into those sidings will be replaced with Peco as I have a few spare.  Fortunately, the Peco track, which was also glued down, comes up easily enough without the glue needing soaking (which is what I did with the points)

 

So, the die is cast: I have to replace it now, so that will be the next lot of work.  Apart, that is, from getting some locos and stock checked over for running at the York Show (I'm operating on Oldham King Street Parcels), building a couple of motor bogies for a Class 115 DMU that is being built for me and finishing my Insulfish vans.

 

Then I've got to fit in my drum practice!!  (A chance remark to my daughter and grandkids before Christmas about how I would have loved to play drums, but I'm too old to learn now, elicited drum lessons as a real surprise Christmas present!!  70+ years old and I've started drumming!!!!  I must be mad - but I do enjoy it!!!)   I don't think I'm going to get bored!!

 

More on the progress of WKT soon.

 

 

Rod

 

 

[Jon Fitness]

Blimey! With all that ripping up and starting again you could become O gauge's "Coachman" !!

Still, if it ain't right, it's best to change it otherwise you'll never be satisfied with it. We've got a strange mixture of Peco and Marcway points on our layout and Steve's done loads of lifting and packing and slewing to get things to run right. Seems OK now though!

All the best and power to your re-laying arm Rod,

Jon F.

[Dmudriver]

Hi all.

 

More progress today.  I unscrewed the Tortoise motors so that the operating wires no longer protrude above the board, but have left them attached to the wiring.  Hopefully they won't have to be moved too far.  

 

Then I set the single slip and one point of the crossover in place, as these 2 are the main part of the point complex.  The slip is correctly lined up with the Up line and the platform and the point is at 80mm track centre from it.  As I suspected, I've had to remove the platform road and the outer siding but they caused no problem.  Here are a couple of pics to show today's progress:

 

 

 

As you can see, the string has disappeared and been replaced by a black felt tip line, and the rail and sleepers on the slip and point have been trimmed to fit.  Also as I suspected, I now have a wider platform - about 30mm wider - so fitting the starter signal in will be no problem now.  In fact, the line of the former platform track can be seen in the lower pic - the wavy line between the 2nd and 3rd tracks from the left is the edge of the sleepers of the previous alignment.

 

All in all, a successful start to the relaying.  The temporary cardboard platform has been consigned to the appropriate recycling bin as it won't now fit and a new one will be built with the station buildings.  In the top pic you can see a piece of white painted hardboard - this is the backscene that will go behind those buildings.  It's been left like that so the curve will form in it: we don't want a right angle corner behind the buildings.

 

More soon.

 

Rod

[Dmudriver]

Hi all.

 

I've made some more progress today.  I put the convection heater on in the shed and shut myself away for a few hours, with Radio 2 on!!   I've done what I considered to be the most nerve-racking part of the job - chopping the points and single slip to fit.  Fortunately, there was only one moment when I thought I'd chopped too much but I managed to rectify it.  Basically the discipline was check, check and check again!!  These 3 pics show what the job looks like so far:

 

 

 

 

The next job will be to tack the pointwork down and mark and drill the holes for the point motors. Then fit said point motors, followed by adjustments to the track that joins onto the new points complex.

 

To me it looks much neater: certainly the trailing crossover in the back platform road is better lined up than it was previously.  I don't know if that's obvious in the pics, but to me it is!!

 

I plan to do more tomorrow so will add more then.

 

Rod

[MarshLane]

Hi Rod,

Its a while since i've posted on your topic, but i'd been keeping a watchful eye!  Must agree with you, that new pointwork does look better - well done.

 

Keep going anyway, its looking good

 

Rich

[Dmudriver]

Hi all.

 

More progress today - and quite a lot, when I look at it again!!  I tacked the new pointwork down and marked where the holes for the point motors would be.  Then I took them up again and drilled the holes.  Got all except one dead right and that one only needed a minimum of filing to be OK.  The old holes were covered with a thin piece of plastic to stop ballast pouring through when I eventually get round to that.

 

As fitting the motors is a 2 person job (well, at least it's easier that way) I decided to carry on with laying the rest of the track.  This pic shows how far I'd got when I decided - at 9 pm - that I'd done enough.

 

 

 

The next one is looking the other way, from above the back platform road.  Almost a driver's eye view (although, if I was driving, I'd be a bit concerned that the point blade wasn't properly over!!!!  A Tortoise motor will cure that, however!!)

 

 

Sorry the pic is a bit blurred - the depth of field wasn't that deep!!  What I do like now is that the whole complex looks more realistic - maybe "correct" is a better word.  These 2 pics will show what I mean.  The first is the newly laid track and the second is as it was:

 

      

 

The second is looking from the opposite direction but it illustrates the improvement better.  The original layout had a problem with the geometry somehow.  If you look at the 2nd pic, the track from the slip to the near platform (the 3rd road from the left) does not exit the slip in a straight line:  the first point in the trailing crossover to the left of the slip is close to the slip and looks out of line.  As the platform line is not straight, the parallel sidings to the right are also not straight.  In the newly laid version, I have corrected those errors and, in my opinion, it looks so much better.  Add to that the wider platform, and it's looking much more like the real West Kirby.  Unfortunately, I can't find a non-copyrighted pic to include to show what I mean.  Just take my word for it!!!

 

There is much more to do:  finish off the sidings point- and track-work, then take the points up again and drill new holes for the point motors.  However, I also need to replace 2 catch points.  I had hoped to use the old ones but, looking at them, decided to bin them and to build my own.  I've got more than enough parts left over from the point and slip kits to do them, but I'll leave them  for a while: in the meantime I've fitted temporary pieces of plain track.  Before that, though, I need to add sleepers where there are gaps, add fishplates, then fix the wiring back again (including the point motors!!)

 

Once I have finished the sidings, though, I'll hold the point blades over with Blu-tack and run stock over the pointwork just to be sure it's all OK.  Better to find out now rather than later if there are any running problems!!

 

You may have noticed nails holding the track down.  These are a tightish fit in holes I drilled through the sleepers and into the board: the intention is to remove them once the track is ballasted.

 

So, that's it so far.  I hope to get more done at the weekend, tomorrow is a bit too busy to fit in any work on the layout!!  

 

Rod.

[Dmudriver]

Hi all - again!!

 

Having said I couldn't find a non-copywrited (?copywritten??) pic to illustrate the real thing, I remembered this one that Flying Signalman - Keith - posted on the original thread about the signalling at West Kirby.

 

I hope it's OK to use it, Keith!!

 

 

 

Rod

 

 

[Dmudriver]

Hi all

 

I've made some more progress the last couple of days.  The track and point cutting and laying is finished, but I still  have to drill out the holes under the Peco points for the Tortoise operating wires.    I've fitted the points and track reasonably loosely so they won't be too hard to get back up.  Plus, I've marked exactly where they all go, so putting them back should be ok.

 

There are still (cosmetic) sleepers to fit and fishplates to fit to the C&L pointwork but the main work is done.  Here's a couple of pics - one looking each way - to show how it looks now.

 

 

 

I've made a couple of small alterations to the track layout:  1) I've removed the "kick back" siding from the DMU stabling point, mainly because I kept catching (and eventually wrecked!!) the buffer stop when I was working.  I was afraid I'd also catch it when I was operating.  However, it does give me an extra siding for stabling.  2)  I've lengthened the inner siding in the stabling point to take a 4-car unit - as I think I've said before, I'm having a Class 115 built.  So, I should now have stabling room for a 4-, a 3- and a 2-car DMU, plus, I hope, room for the inspection saloon.  The lengthening of the inner siding probably means that the road bridge will have to span it, so now crossing 3 tracks instead of 2.  I could move it further away but then I'm likely to obscure the Down Inner Home signal - which I most definitely do not want to do!!

 

Looking at the pics, the difference between the C&L and the Peco points is really noticeable - more so than on the actual layout.  I'll consider taking the covers off the tiebars as I think they're there only to hold the spring on, but, as 2 of the stabling siding points will be hand operated, that may not be possible.  More thought needed!!

 

Now it's time to prepare my stock for the York Exhibition.  I'll not do any more on the layout until all my stock has passed its fitness-to-run exam!!  If anyone is going to York, come over to Oldham King Street Parcels and say hello.  I'm there for the duration.

 

Rod

[flyingsignalman]

Hi all - again!!

 

Having said I couldn't find a non-copywrited (?copywritten??) pic to illustrate the real thing, I remembered this one that Flying Signalman - Keith - posted on the original thread about the signalling at West Kirby.

 

I hope it's OK to use it, Keith!!

 

post-6748-0-10521100-1322681559.jpg

 

 

Rod

 

Fine by me - if you want to re-use any I've posted, feel free.

[Dmudriver]

Fine by me - if you want to re-use any I've posted, feel free.

Thanks, Keith.

 

Rod

[Dmudriver]

Hi all.

 

And now, as they used to say on Monty Python, for something completely different!!!

 

As I've said before, I'm having a Class 115 built, but I do like to build my own bogies (as I do loco chassis) as that way I can be sure that they run to my satisfaction.  We are using Easy-Build Class 116/117 kits as a basis (in conjunction with Shawn and Richard) but I want to use ABC bogie gearboxes in the 2 power cars.  That may be overkill, but I'm not sure 1 bogie would be man enough for 4 cars.

 

I didn't use Shawn's motor bogies as I thought I'd read somewhere on RMweb that someone had motorised the plastic ones, so I got all those with the kits.  In the end, I couldn't find the thread, but I've gone ahead anyway and thought I'd share how I've done it.

 

I'll be honest and admit I didn't draw plans or anything like that (I'm not an engineer by profession!!).  I did a bit of trying Delrin gear wheels and motor/gearbox against the bogie parts, decided it would work and just went for it!!  I started by cutting 2 slots for the gear wheels and a space for the motor/gearbox.  This is what it looked like:

 

 

I tried the gearbox in the bogie but, to be honest, it didn't fit too well, so I decided to just cut off the end stretcher (is that the correct description?) and make a channel for the gearbox.  This is what it then looked like:

 

 

At this point nothing was glued together but it was looking OK, so I did glue it all together.  I then fitted the Delrin chain - having thought I would take the chain over the top of the bogie and then underneath it.  This is where I regretted not planning better!!  As you can see from the photo below, the chain goes over the bogie pivot which will be fastened to the coach floor.  OOOps!!

 

 

So, plan B was to take the chain under the bogie, as shown here:. 

 

 

 I filed a little off the cross members to help the chain slide smoothly and then fitted it.  (It sounds so easy put like that - but fortunately, I've got more patient in my old age and managed it!)  This was how it looked:

 

 

Unfortunately, the chain was too tight and everything was a bit noisy when I tried running it.  So I put one link back in - and then the chain hung almost down to track level!!  I remedied this by supergluing a couple of pieces of wire across under the bogie, as shown here:

 

 

And this is what it looks like from the side:

 

 

I've run the bogie and it is much quieter now.  The real test will come when it's fitted to the unit and is running under load - it's the wires holding the chain up I'm a bit concerned about, but I'll see how they go.  I'm not too concerned about using the plastic bogies - they're well plastic-welded together so they should stand up to running OK.  I'm just waiting for the second motor/gearbox from ABC and then I'll get the second bogie built - the same way.  I wanted to finish one this week as I'm seeing the builder at York and I just want him to see how I've built it so that he can adjust the floor aperture for fitting it.

 

So that's how I've done it.  It may be a bit unusual, but if you don't try, you don't know if it will work!!  Any comments or questions gratefully received but it may be after York before I can answer/comment on them!!

 

Next job is to refit missing and broken buffer beam parts on my Heljan 33 and 37s (plus bogie parts for the latter) so that they look their best for York!!  

 

More soon.

 

Rod

 

PS    I've just checked this and seen that, in the last pic, the axlebox cover has found its way onto the bogie frame.  I've since put it back where it belongs!!

 

[David Siddall]

That's an ingenious solution Rod!

 

Interesting though that you're still experiencing a bit of noise even with that magnificent ABC drive unit! Depending on speed I've managed to fine-tune the standard Easybuild motor bogie down to between a very muted growl (not unlike the sound of the real thing) and almost silent by patiently tweaking the relationship between the worm and gear. It's also a very smooth starter and slow runner even on a very basic DC controller (a Combi believe it or not!) – not in the Hymek's class but not bad IMO and will probably improve further with running-in :-)

 

I guess it must be the EB bogie axle spacing which means that sag in the Delrhin chain is inevitable. As you say one less link is too tight – I actually broke a link finding that out! I did think of trying an idler gear to tension the chain in the same way as cam belts are tensioned on cars but felt that it would be too visible. I concluded that any chain slack – which on my 121 isn't for some reason quite as pronounced as on your example – will only be noticeable when viewed at track level which my creaky back and ultimately my layout design wont allow.

 

Looking forward to seeing the full 4-car unit in all its glory :-)

 

David

 

PS:  I'm just wondering whether your solution to keeping the chain out of sight might actually be adding noise issues?

 

PPS: I'm also wondering whether the EB-supplied wheels are especially sound conductive... I noticed that test-rolling a pair through my ballasted turnout created more racket than when I did the same thing with one of my Hymek wheelsets???  #justarandompassingthought

Edited March 28, 2013 by David Siddall

[Dmudriver]

Hi David.

 

Thanks for your comments.  The noise I think was due to the chain being tight: it wasn't a metallic grinding sound - more like plastic (ABS??) being pulled over obstructions.  Now I've extended the chain the noise is much less.  In fact the whole set-up is so free running that, on my rolling road and with no weight on the bogie, the motor/gears/wheels run at a very low voltage: 0.25v - well, that's according to my rather cheap multimeter!!  Certainly it's at mark 10 out of 100 on my Gaugemaster controller - where the max voltage is 14v.  

 

I agree with you about viewing the chain slack.  I won't be viewing the layout at track level, either.

 

I've never thought about different wheelsets having different sound qualities.  What I have noticed, though, is on my layout the new track I have laid is pinned down to the cork which is itself glued to the baseboard.  The "original" track was glued to the cork and the difference in noise level between the glued and pinned track is really noticeable - the pinned is so much quieter.  I think that will change however when I ballast the track and fix that with dilute PVA.

 

I've just the pickups to put on the bogie and then a couple of blocks to keep the motor/gearbox firmly in place but those are no major problems and can wait until after York.

 

I've got the pipework on the 33, but those steps over the buffers are really difficult to fit.  They're now superglued on!!  37 bogies next after grandad duties and cooking for the family this evening!!

 

More soon.

 

Rod

[David Siddall]

I've never thought about different wheelsets having different sound qualities.  What I have noticed, though, is on my layout the new track I have laid is pinned down to the cork which is itself glued to the baseboard.  The "original" track was glued to the cork and the difference in noise level between the glued and pinned track is really noticeable - the pinned is so much quieter.  I think that will change however when I ballast the track and fix that with dilute PVA.

I've sworn off PVA for ballast fixing Rod. Having gone to the trouble of creating individual 60' track panels I just want to hear wheels on rail joints :-)

 

I've heard Copydex suggested as an alternative for ballast fixing (if you can tolerate the pong) and I'm also going to try Cow Gum (which smells less offensive). Neither go solid and Cow Gum can be thinned – I know this about the latter from my mis-spent youth in design studios before computers. I spotted a tip (on Warspite's thread 'Minimum space O Guage Layout') which said that when using flexible adhesives pushing a thin blade through the track bed before drilling any holes avoids ending up with a gummed-up drill bit.

 

David

Edited April 2, 2013 by David Siddall

[alant]

I've sworn off PVA for ballast fixing Rod. Having gone to the trouble of creating individual 60' track panels I just want to hear wheels on rail joints :-)

 

I've heard Copydex suggested as an alternative for ballast fixing (if you can tolerate the pong) and I'm also going to try Cow Gum (which smells less offensive). Neither go solid and Cow Gum can be thinned – I know this about the latter from my mis-spent youth in design studios before computers. I spotted a tip (I think somewhere in Chaz's 'Dock Green' thread) which said that when using flexible adhesives pushing a thin blade through the track bed before drilling any holes avoids ending up with a gummed-up drill bit.

 

David

Cow Gum, I didn't realise it was still available. Happy memories from years ago when working as a paste up artist!

 

Alan.

[David Siddall]

Cow Gum, I didn't realise it was still available. Happy memories from years ago when working as a paste up artist!

Now sold as 'Toucan Studio Gum'... I guess you'll also remember galleys set on an IBM Selectric, Letraset and blue chinagraph pencils then – happy days? ;-)

 

David