West Kirby Town: narrow gauge is coming to town.

[Dmudriver]

The double arrows on the PSR sign mean apply to both platform lines (approaching the signal) as opposed to the up / down beyond the signal - there was no wrong line shunt at WK.

 

I've seen (U/Q) prototypes droop more than your signal !

 

Thanks for the clarification, beast, about the PSR.  I'll add another arrow soon.

 

Rod

[Dmudriver]

Hi all.

 

Not a lot to comment on for the last couple of weeks, really.  I've added another arrow to the PSR at the exit to the platforms - see beast66606's comments above:  pic here:

 

 

This picture raised my eyebrows a bit in that the road is (I believe) correctly set for the 3-car DMU to reverse from the Up Line to the left hand siding. Yet the point in front of the 115 is set for a conflicting movement.  The far point of the near crossover (the 2nd the unit will cross) works in conjunction with the catch point which can just be seen behind the cab of the blue 115 on the left, as crossover 21, and here is reversed.  The point in front of the 115 works with part of the single slip and can just be seen behind the signal post above the PSR (crossover 24) and here is in the normal position.

 

Question to beast66606 if/when you read this:  should crossover 24 be reversed for this manoeuvre?  Thinking about it, I would imagine it should be, but I don't think I ever asked this question when I was planning the signalling and signal box diagram.

 

I've spent a couple of good weekends at Barrow and Warrington shows, operating on Oldham King Street Parcels and Apethorne Junction respectively.  I bought 4.5 Kgs of ballast at the latter!!  No excuse for not staring that now!!  I've also dug out platform edging which I bought last year and had forgotten about!  That also needs starting.

 

I have had some trials and tribulations, however, centring on Loksound v4 decoders.  My Thumper came with one installed - the 1.1A one which should be up to the job as the motor draws only 0.25A in normal running and 0.52A under heavy load.  When I fitted a bass speaker to it, it blew up!  Whether the speaker was the cause or not, I don't know, but the chip has gone back to Howes for return to ESU.   I had a spare one, previously fitted in the Ivatt which they reblew to the Thumper sound for me, so I fitted it and that blew - this time with smoke - and one of the 2 x 4ohm speakers also blew!!  So they've also gone back to Howes and the unit never made it to Warrington show.

 

I've now got a v4 XL to fit to the Thumper - I'll report on that later.  Before I fitted the 2nd v4, I checked for short circuits and found nothing at all and the unit ran perfectly happily with a Lokpilot v3.5 (without sound) in it for a couple of weeks so I haven't a clue what's caused them to blow.  Hopefully, I'll find out more when they are returned from Germany.

 

I know others have used v4 1.1A chips successfully in smaller 0 gauge locos and DMUs, but I don't seem to have much luck!  Has anyone else had problems with v4s in 0 gauge stock - and, if so, what were the causes?

 

More soon.

 

Rod

[two tone green]

Hi Rod,

 

I have 2 x V4 Loksound in my two car easybuild 108, one in each car with one bass reflex speaker mounted underflood where the engines are and work a treat. Each speaker is 8 ohms though.

 

Also have same decoder in Bachmann Brassworks 08 with same bass reflex speaker as my DMU and everything has worked well since day one. That runs into a few years now.

 

Decoder fully insulated in the 08 as I made sure it was mounted on a plastic plate so all connection on the PCB etc are at least 1mm away from any brass.

 

Also all my V4 decoders are the 21pin version on the MTC breakout board as for me it makes working on the wiring etc so much easier. Also all fitted with the ESU power pack for stay alive.

 

All are fully wired for lights as well. Cab lights, head and tail lights, headcode boxes, passenger compartment lights all sorts of things and absolutely no problems. Motor gear box in the 108 is ABC diesel motor bogie built for me by ABC.

 

My Heljan and JLTRT locos are all V4 XL, would not use anything else due to power requirements. The normal V4 is just not up to it.

 

You mention two 4 ohm speakers, in series I hope?

[flyingsignalman]

Hi all.

 

Not a lot to comment on for the last couple of weeks, really.  I've added another arrow to the PSR at the exit to the platforms - see beast66606's comments above:  pic here:

 

P1020604 - Copy.JPG

 

This picture raised my eyebrows a bit in that the road is (I believe) correctly set for the 3-car DMU to reverse from the Up Line to the left hand siding. Yet the point in front of the 115 is set for a conflicting movement.  The far point of the near crossover (the 2nd the unit will cross) works in conjunction with the catch point which can just be seen behind the cab of the blue 115 on the left, as crossover 21, and here is reversed.  The point in front of the 115 works with part of the single slip and can just be seen behind the signal post above the PSR (crossover 24) and here is in the normal position.

 

Question to beast66606 if/when you read this:  should crossover 24 be reversed for this manoeuvre?  Thinking about it, I would imagine it should be, but I don't think I ever asked this question when I was planning the signalling and signal box diagram.

 

Conflicting routes can't always be eliminated and reversing 24 points would stop a train arriving at the empty platform while the shunt is being carried out.

[flyingsignalman]

Looking at this photo in the thread on the layout's signalling, shows the arrow on the PSR sign is double ended rather than 2 separate ones.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/48013-signalling-at-west-kirby-late-1970-early-1980/?p=676008

[Dmudriver]

Conflicting routes can't always be eliminated and reversing 24 points would stop a train arriving at the empty platform while the shunt is being carried out.

 

Thanks, flyingsignalman, for the clarification.  I'd forgotten about the access to the empty platform.

 

Rod

[Dmudriver]

Looking at this photo in the thread on the layout's signalling, shows the arrow on the PSR sign is double ended rather than 2 separate ones.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/48013-signalling-at-west-kirby-late-1970-early-1980/?p=676008

 

Thanks also for the reference to the photo in the earlier thread - I'd forgotten about that one.  I thought that this might be a double ended arrow - as is the one on the Down Line before crossover 26 -  but, as the fret only had single ended I chickened out and used 2!!  As I said a few posts ago, I'm not trying to make a scale model but to get to close enough that anyone who knows it will recognise it.

 

I do appreciate your comments and your help.

 

Rod

[Dmudriver]

Hi Rod,

 

I have 2 x V4 Loksound in my two car easybuild 108, one in each car with one bass reflex speaker mounted underflood where the engines are and work a treat. Each speaker is 8 ohms though.

 

Also have same decoder in Bachmann Brassworks 08 with same bass reflex speaker as my DMU and everything has worked well since day one. That runs into a few years now.

 

Decoder fully insulated in the 08 as I made sure it was mounted on a plastic plate so all connection on the PCB etc are at least 1mm away from any brass.

 

Also all my V4 decoders are the 21pin version on the MTC breakout board as for me it makes working on the wiring etc so much easier. Also all fitted with the ESU power pack for stay alive.

 

All are fully wired for lights as well. Cab lights, head and tail lights, headcode boxes, passenger compartment lights all sorts of things and absolutely no problems. Motor gear box in the 108 is ABC diesel motor bogie built for me by ABC.

 

My Heljan and JLTRT locos are all V4 XL, would not use anything else due to power requirements. The normal V4 is just not up to it.

 

You mention two 4 ohm speakers, in series I hope?

 

Hi two tone green.

 

Thanks for the comments.  Yes, the 2 x 4ohm speakers were in series!!

 

What's the MTC breakout board?  I've never heard of that!!

 

You confirm what I thought about others using the 1.1A v4 quite successfully. 

 

I'm interested to find out what has happened to those chips I had.  Was I just unlucky?  I cannot for the life of me think what I may have done wrong, if anything - I've fitted plenty of others, including v4 XLs (one of those tonight for a pal!!), as well as the v3.5s and they're all fine.  I use v4 XLs in my Heljan locos too, but my JLTRT Class 50 still has a v3.5 XL going strong so I don't intend to change it yet.

 

Rod

[two tone green]

http://www.esu.eu/en/products/accessories/adapterplatinen/21mtc-adapter-board-2/

 

Very useful item. All connections are made to it so you don't have to go near the decoder.

[Dmudriver]

http://www.esu.eu/en/products/accessories/adapterplatinen/21mtc-adapter-board-2/

 

Very useful item. All connections are made to it so you don't have to go near the decoder.

 

Thanks, TTG, that's very useful information - and a useful bit of kit.  And not too expensive, either.

 

Rod

[two tone green]

Standard part for me. 21pin V4 Loksound and the adaptor plate. Makes life so much easier soldering to the plate rather than the decoder.

[Dmudriver]

Hi all.

 

Another update on progress, but where to start .....?  How about the Thumper?  Well, the 2 x 1.1A chips have gone back to Germany via Howes and I've bought and fitted a v4 XL chip, using the hi-bass speaker.  It does sound good!!!  The chip wouldn't fit where I thought it would, so I've stuck it to the roof of the engine compartment.  It meant I had to cut away part of the resin engine casting, but what I've done is not visible at normal viewing distance.  The chip has run for quite a few hours now with no problems, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed the bigger capacity is the answer.

 

How I'd get an XL in an Ivatt 2-6-2T is a matter for another day!!

 

The Thumper ran OK but it did have a bit of a growl and a squeak.  I thought the latter was something catching but it turns out it was one of the gears.  A pal who came over to look at the layout on Friday suggested a tip he'd picked up from a demonstrator at Telford: grind the gears in with toothpaste!!  Sounded daft, but I tried it and it worked a treat!!  I put about 4 or 5 lots on over the time it was running and I put it on my rolling road at speed step 48 for about an hour in each direction (not in the same direction all at once - I kept changing the direction).

 

Once it was finished the toothpaste had gone pretty solid like well-used Blutack but it came off pretty easily with a screwdriver and tweezers.  Add a bit of ceramic grease and it runs so smoothly and quietly it's almost unbelievable.

 

Much as I like my DMUs, this Thumper DEMU is my favourite!!!  [i sound like Bruce Forsyth on "Strictly ...."!!!]  It keeps appearing on the Club's DCC layout - yes, I'm showing it off!!

 

I've started the ballasting - here's a pic of what extra I've laid so far:

 

 

The darker section on the far ends of the 4 tracks to the left of the platform is where I've wet it and then dribbled dilute PVA - with a bit of washing-up liquid in.  Unfortunately it's taking a while to dry with the weather having gone so much colder.  I've got a heater in the shed but that keeps the temperature at only 5 to 10 degrees C at night.  Nevertheless, it is drying.  However, with the bit of PVA I had left, I tried some directly onto the dry ballast and it took nicely - I think it's the washing-up liquid that reduces the surface tension so I think that's the way I'll start on the next lot and see how it goes.  The darker sections closer to the camera are what was originally in before I planted the signals.  Hopefully it will all end up a fairly uniform darker shade.

 

I've also started to set up the platform.  The sides are 27mm deep and I've used 12 x 10 mm and 15 x 12 mm (roughly!!) stripwood to hold the sides up.  It looks like it will work.  At the moment, the sides are held to the wood by Sticky Fixers and the sides aren't curved yet to suit the track, but it's giving me an idea of what it will look like  Here's a pic:

 

 

The cardboard surface is just for show - I'll probably use thin plasticard when I do it for real.  However, I need to do the ballasting first.

 

Finally, a cruel close up pic of the Thumper at the platform:

 

 

I say cruel because it shows a difference in height between the 2 coaches - that will be sorted easily enough.  But there's also a slight wobble in the white lining and a bent window divider in the cab.  However, these latter two are not noticeable at normal viewing distance so I'm leaving them.  As I said it's a cruel close up but I've used it to show the height of the platform.  I think it's OK - probably not for the present day but for the period I'm modelling I think it's acceptable.

 

On with the ballasting tomorrow and at the weekend.  I'm beginning to think that even 4.5Kg won't be enough!!!

 

More soon.

 

Rod

 

 

 

Edited November 5, 2013 by Dmudriver

[two tone green]

Very nice, very impressive. Where are the platform sides from.

[Dmudriver]

Very nice, very impressive. Where are the platform sides from.

 

Hi two tone.

 

I got them from here: http://www.modelrailwaywagons.co.uk/price%20list.htm   The invoice says they were sent from the Wagon Depot and that page I've quoted is the price list page on the website and is the only mention I've found.  Scroll down the page and you will find the prices. 

 

Because I wanted some 16' or 17' I bought some "seconds" which will go on the back platform because they will likely never be seen.  I actually saw them at Halifax last year and ordered them then.

 

Another manufacturer is Crossinggate, whose website is here:  http://www.crossinggate.co.uk/   I saw their product at Telford this year and was planning to buy theirs until I found the ones I'd bought last year!!!   Must be my age - buying things and then forgetting you've bought them!!!!!  So far I've not done it with a loco, though!!!

 

Hope this is useful.

 

Rod

[two tone green]

Hi Rod.

 

Thanks for the info. I have quite a lot of the versions from Crossing Gates Models and have found the sides very nice and easy to use.

 

The interlocking edges to connect one to another is a very nice feature. But the platform top edging stones need a bit of work to keep them flat and in alignment. The do bend lengthwise a bit to easyily. A tad more rigidity would have been useful.

 

Keep the pictures and news coming. Very inspirational.

[pwr]

Rod

 

Have a look at my Black Notley thread on layout topics where you can see my slightly different take on ballasting.

 

Paul R

[Dmudriver]

Rod

 

Have a look at my Black Notley thread on layout topics where you can see my slightly different take on ballasting.

 

Paul R

Thanks, Paul.  I've had a look - won't Cascamite and PVA make the ballast extremely solid?  But then, are you planning to exhibit the layout at some time?  If so, solid ballast is very useful - yes, I talk from experience of exhibiting club layouts!!!

 

I've read all your thread - I do like the layout and particularly the level of detail you're putting into it.  I'd aim for that but it will be a while before I get anywhere near it - a larger layout is fun to operate but getting it up to a decent standard does take a while - still, I'm retired and I've got time, and I enjoy doing it.

 

Shopping for son-in-law's birthday now, then more ballasting later!!

 

Rod

[pwr]

Thanks, Paul.  I've had a look - won't Cascamite and PVA make the ballast extremely solid?  But then, are you planning to exhibit the layout at some time?  If so, solid ballast is very useful - yes, I talk from experience of exhibiting club layouts!!!

 

I've read all your thread - I do like the layout and particularly the level of detail you're putting into it.  I'd aim for that but it will be a while before I get anywhere near it - a larger layout is fun to operate but getting it up to a decent standard does take a while - still, I'm retired and I've got time, and I enjoy doing it.

 

Shopping for son-in-law's birthday now, then more ballasting later!!

 

Rod

 

Rod

 

Surprisingly not. I think its down to how much cascamite you actually put in it. So far it has not moved albeit some bits have chipped away. Having said that I am able to replace it from a mixed up spare pot.

 

Don't worry about the time it all takes. I have been building Notley from over 10 years and its still not at a point I can exhibit! Still not got enough stock yet for the steam era but I am getting there.

 

Time is very precious and although I am about to leave my currnet job I will need to spend some serious time looking for a new one so even unemployment is not going to help!

 

Keep up the good work

 

Paul R

[pwr]

Any updates Rod?

 

Paul R

[Dmudriver]

Hi all.

 

As Paul's nudged my elbow, here I am with an update.

 

I've not done much more on the layout, unfortunately, apart from a bit more ballasting.  Not enough, however, to be worth photographing.  If I'm honest, the weather's not really conducive to working out in the shed, even if I put the heaters on.  My son-in-law has built some window bars for added security in the shed and he's been and fitted them.

 

Most of my modelling time has been spent on the models.  The first job was to get the 115 ready for running at an exhibition at Poynton last weekend.  The first job was to fit the lights: I've done it the same way as Ressaldar did

with his departmental 121 - unfortunately I don't seem to be able to copy the link to add it to this entry, but it's in the 7mm modelling section.  Basically it uses Veroboard and I've found it very successful.  At first I fitted the warm white/red LEDs but they are too yellow for me, so I've replaced them with the white/red ones: as long as they're turned down they look OK - I don't want them shining like headlights.  I'll describe them a bit more when I put some photos up.  Why no photos now? I hear you ask.

 

Well, I've got a couple of Zimo 645 chips for use on this unit and Paul Chetter blew them for me as "ended" ones: i.e., for example, the horn only operates at the front of the unit, depending on the direction of travel (and the horns are slightly different sounds at each end).  With the cold start, the 2 engines in one power car start one after the other, then, after a wait (to allow the driver to walk along the track to the other end) the two at the other end of the unit start one after the other.  For the warm start (which the driver does from the cab) the engines on one side of the unit in both cars start together, then the other 2 in both cars together.  Similarly, I've had the guard's RTS buzzer sound in the leading cab only, and the driver's acknowledging response sounding in the rear guard's van.  It really is good.  However, when I was setting them up and testing them, I got them back to front and in altering them, I've somehow blown one of the chips!!!!!!  How?  I really haven't a clue - and I was really careful about not leaving any soldered joints exposed in case of short circuits.

 

This happened just a few days before Poynton and, although Paul was willing to do me a replacement, I wouldn't have had time to fit it.  So, the 115 never ran at Poynton.  The next target is Nailsea (Bristol) in March 2014.

 

I did get the destination blinds fitted, though, and the errant windows glued back in - I checked all the others at the same time and reinforced the glue on a few dodgy ones.

 

However, the Thumper did run and it was very well received.  To make the weekend better, Peter Clark had finished the centre car and a pal from the Club picked it up at the Reading Trade Show last Saturday.  So, I've now got a 3-car Thumper which has run on the Club layout.  It's so good I'm actually thinking about making the layout 3rd rail after all, but running surplus SR EMUs!!!!  That really is just pipe dreaming but you never know - watch this space!!  I'll put a photo or two up shortly.

 

The same pal also picked up my Class 131 kit which Shawn from Easybuild had got ready for me.  When I'll get that built, I'm not sure, but it will make a change from electrics!! 

 

So that's the update for now but Christmas preparations are taking over and it may be a while before I get much more modelling done - and then, of course, there's Everton's 3 home games to go to in the next couple of weeks!!!

 

More soon, when I can!

 

Rod

[Jon Fitness]

Starting to sound expensive this DCC lark Rod! My mate Steve says to me "you know what DCC stands for? Double the Cost of Conventional......" Hope you get the DMU sorted soon, looking forward to hearing it rasp away from West Kirby Town..

Jon F.

[Dmudriver]

Starting to sound expensive this DCC lark Rod! My mate Steve says to me "you know what DCC stands for? Double the Cost of Conventional......" Hope you get the DMU sorted soon, looking forward to hearing it rasp away from West Kirby Town..

Jon F.

 

Fair point, John!!  Mind you, if the chips are replaced because of a fault the cost isn't too bad.  However, it's more the inconvenience of wrapping them up, sending them back by Special Delivery (and, thinking about it, that's not cheap!!) and then waiting for them to come back.

 

I wouldn't go back, though - once working properly DCC really does add an extra dimension.  Not just the sound but the thing I've noticed is how long it takes to shunt:  because there's inertia built into the programmes (and it's adjustable, too) you can't just give the loco an extra bit of power to get it going and then throttle back to a reasonable speed, you just have to wait - and then start slowing down a lot sooner.  Absolutely fascinating!!

 

I'll work out how to take videos on my camera and then how to post them on here - or on to Youtube and then work out how to get links from here.  That'll give me something to do after Christmas and in between football matches!!  (And building my 131, and finishing the ballasting, and starting the scenic side, and fitting 2 chips for a lad at the Club and, ...and ... goes on forever, doesn't it!!! 

 

Rod

[pwr]

Found this link on Flikr you may find helpful

 

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/roger_sutcliffe/5542677399/in/set-72157626182408043/

 

I don't seem to be able to embed the image but you can find it through your browser

 

Paul R

 

 

[Dmudriver]

Found this link on Flikr you may find helpful

 

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/roger_sutcliffe/5542677399/in/set-72157626182408043/

 

I don't seem to be able to embed the image but you can find it through your browser

 

Paul

Thanks for the link, Paul.  That's a really good picture: I've not seen the box from that angle before.   The ones I have seen tend to be of the ends and it's longer than I realised.

 

Rod

[Dmudriver]

Hi all.

 

An update - with some photos this time!!  I decided this morning it was about time I got going on the railway again.  The afternoon was bright, with blue sky, and I was tempted to go for a walk but instead, I put the heaters on in the shed and did some ballasting.  I've now done all the station area and the approach from the fiddle yard that's inside the shed.  There's just the DMU stabling point roads to do now.  So, here's the first pic, an overview of the station area: the tracks to the right are the ones I've done and they look dark because the ballast hasn't dried out yet (it takes 4-5 days at the moment!!!)

 

 

There's still loose ballast to hoover up but I'll wait until it's all dry to do that.  The brown, bare parts are around the tiebars: they won't look so obvious once I've sprayed the track with sleeper grime, but again that can only be done when it's all properly dry.

 

The next pic is looking the other way, from over the station building.  The 2 tracks on the left, the crossover in the distance and the plain track up to and a bit beyond the bridge are what I've done today.

 

 

Finally, a closer view of what's in the distance in the above pic.

 

 

Total time - about 2.5 hours, including mixing PVA with water and washing up liquid and a couple of cups of tea.  All quite relaxing.

 

In other news (to coin a phrase from a TV programme - but which one, I forget (maybe "The Two Ronnies"?), I've fitted the 2 chips to my 115 and they work superbly.  I had it running on the Club's end to end DCC layout on Saturday and it was well admired!!  I also had the 3-car Thumper running and that, too, went down well.  I think I've worked out how to use my camera for videos and how to get those onto Youtube, so watch this space!!  I'll need to find out how to get the link from here to Youtube but if I have too much trouble, I'll ask!!

 

Finally,  ... some frustration.  I've fitted 2 x Loksound v4 XL chips into a Heljan 31 and a scratchbuilt 45 for a lad at the Club.  Got them working fine so took them to the Club for him last night and ..... neither of them worked properly!!  The 31 ran, with all the lights working correctly but the sound wouldn't work: the 45 had sound, but wouldn't run with the sound on!!  So, thoroughly brassed off, I came home early and tried them again on my layout.  The 31 was perfect and the 45 ran, with sound, after I'd lubricated the gears and axles.  What happened at the Club, I haven't a clue - I just hope they work when I hand them over next time!!

 

So, that's it for tonight.  I'm going to watch Episode V of Star Wars and then the fireworks on the TV, send a few texts after midnight and then go to bed!  The days of loud, drunken parties on New Year's Eve are long gone!!!  I hope you all had a good Christmas and I wish you all all the best for 2014.

 

Rod

Edited December 31, 2013 by Dmudriver