scanman Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Dear All My club (the Railway Enthusiasts Club, Farnborough) has in it's posession two very old 'live steam' loco models (Please note - in the interests of security they are NOT kept at the club premises). We have an allied problem of a very large bill on the horizon & we are hoping that the answer to one question may resolve the other. 'Antiques Roadshow' is visiting in May, so we're hoping for some answers (and a valuation!) then. The first two images are of a model type (we believe) known as a 'dribbler'. One authority suggests it was made by 'Stevens Model Dockyard' probably circa 1870. The second pair of images are potentially more interesting and historically important. They purport to be of a model of a locomotive (possibly built ofr the West Cornwall Railway) named 'Penzance'. The certificate that comes with it (below) states that it was made by 'The Late John Wilkins' possibly at Penzance, in 1854. This would certainly coincide with the opening of the line from Plymouth to Penzance. However, the same authority who gave us information about the 'dribbler' is of the opinion that it was made by a French company - 'Radaigent' or 'Radiquet' between 1880 & 1900. So a real conumdrum here! Any information concerning the prototypes, the models or their builders would be most gratefully appreciated. Regards Ian Barefoot Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingerbread Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Not an area/era I know much about, but I would guess that Penzance probably ran on the Bodmin and Wadebridge Railway There's a brief history of early Cornish railways and tramways here, which indicates this was the first line in Cornwall using steam locomotives, from about 1835 onwards - the first one being named Camel. Another possibility is the Hayle (or Hayle and Portreath) Railway, opened 1837. Speaking as a non-expert, the style of Penzance suggests it was built around 1830-1840. There's also an interesting possibility in the locomotive Penzance that ran on the West Cornwall Railway (successor to the Hayle Railway), but unfortunately details seem wrong - it was a Robert Stephenson 2-4-0, and was built in 1860. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyA Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 According to the RCTS book, Absorbed Engines 1854-1921, the original Penzance built for the West Cornwall Railway was assembled at Carn Brea in April 1851 from parts probably supplied by Messrs. Stothert, Slaughter & Co. It was replaced in 1860 by the Robert Stephenson engine. It is believed to have been a "six-wheeled four coupled tank engine" with inside cylinders. The drawing of a sister engine does not look anything like the model. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 There's a similar, but larger, loco http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/archive/stevens-model-dockyard-locomotive__o_t__t_31456.html dated 1890, which I would think is a more likely date (my opinion - I might be wrong!). This one has proper cylinders and valve gear, rather than the oscillating type and is unlikely to be a 'dribbler'. Known as 'dribblers' (aka - more vulgarly - as 'piddlers') for their habit of leaving trails of water across the floor in operation, due to the oscillating cylinders leaking. Anyone who has used a 'Mamod' engine will know what I mean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 ... Speaking as a non-expert, the style of Penzance suggests it was built around 1830-1840... That says it in a nutshell. This on the assumption that the model maker has faithfully represented his prototype, which seems reasonable given the care with which the model has clearly been made. The design looks to me to come from the latter half of the experimental phase of the steam railway locomotive, as the 'Stephenson' layout is becoming generally established as the best way forward. The firebox is inside the boiler barrel, (no clue to boiler tubing) there's clearly a smokebox with a chimney, and exhaust steam is taken from the cylinders into the smokebox presumably to provide the fire draught, the position of the cylinders between the wheels will give access to whatever valve gear is fitted from the rear and side platforms, as well as the steam valve which is presumably on the central steam fountain and safety valve assembly. Never mind Antiques Roadshow, I should think the Science Museum/NRM will be interested, at the very least in documenting this item. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scanman Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 Dear all - Many thanks for the comments. It *could* be a model of the original 2-4-0 where the maker has omitted the pony wheels, not perhaps realising their importance? Certainly the smoke-box shows an attention to detail that would bely this approach. Other avenues of enquiry will be pursued - and the NRM iwill certainly be one of them! Regards Ian B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Hadyn Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Very interesting, did you ever find out any more as I have seen "Penzance" recently a bit further north from Surrey? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killian keane Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Now that is an oddball... I would love to see whether this represents accurately a real locomotive, anyone got a few more pictures of Penzance? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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