RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted May 1, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 1, 2012 Good afternoon, I was looking for a little advice re Mark I coaches in 7mm scale. I am aware of the recently released Heljan coaches although I understand that some people are a little disappointed with the flat sides to these. I have been looking at Easybuild Mark I kits and also Aquitrain who modify old Lima Mk I's using overlays. I am guessing the Aquitrain ones use brass overlays on perspex/ original sides to achieve the windows as opposed to Easybuild which looks like the windows are preformed in the sides already and have a glazing insert. I just wondered if anyone could offer any experiences of either of these coaches? Many thanks in advance, Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 838rapid Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Have used Aquitrains overlays and had good results from them,They are a printed overlay on acetate which you apply using double sided sticky tape. There is a bit of work involved depending on which varient of coach you aim to create. The main job is altering the window openings to suit the overlay. No connection here other than a pleased Customer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fay Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 The Heljan coaches are not bad if your loking for RTR, Im having one resprayed for my dad at the moment because the Heljan finish is very flat and not that good. Also they have the raised ribbing around the windows so might not be correct for your era depending on what you model ( if that would bother you ). I havent built any but Ive seen loads of completed JLTRT ones and they look superb. All varieties from Blood and Custard up to blue and grey on commenwealth bogies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brake Compo Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I must confess that I am not a fan of the Heljan coaches - for the price they ought to be perfect, and they are very far from perfect. They look all wrong even at first glance becase the profile of the sides is way too flat. The appearance of the ends is also pretty terrible, and I could go on... The Lima coaches can be made into decent coaches, but it takes a fair bit of work. I have improved one three coach set for the garden railway that my late father and I had - and found that this took a lot of work. The biggest problem with the Lima coaches is that they are too narrow and they need to be razor sawed down the middle to widen them, but with replacement bogies, a flushgaze kit and some detailing they can be made to look quite decent. I didn't replace the gangway connections, but should have. It is too late tonight now, but if anyone is interested I would happy to post some photos and an account of my approach to this well trodden ground. Doing more radical things with a razor saw could give coach types other than a BTK and a CK, and a short rake of coaches for less loot than a single Heljan coach. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted May 2, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 2, 2012 Many thanks for all your help and responses. I agree that paying circa 240* notes one would expect things to be correct...shame as the detail looks good overall. I have asked Aquitrain for a quote for 3 coaches and am awaiting the response - I think they work out at around 185* notes for a refurbished Lima coach. The JLTRT coaches do look very nice...and circa 225* notes, they do look good value. The lima coaches could be a good starting option, depending upon how much one buys them from Ebay I guess. I will keep trying to check the Easybuild coaches too but I suppose we have to set a price limit and determine how much work we want to build/bash or otherwise. Many thanks again. * apologies - Spanish keyboard, haven't found the Sterling sign yet... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium DavidLong Posted May 2, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 2, 2012 Oooh, Pete, you naughty man. Those Easy Build coaches look good. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugsley Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 I'd go for the Easybuild ones myself, although I haven't actually built any, they really look the part when completed and they're quite reasonably priced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted May 2, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 2, 2012 Oooh, Pete, you naughty man. Those Easy Build coaches look good. Sorry David...it's that 2mmFS v 7mm thing again... I'd go for the Easybuild ones myself, although I haven't actually built any, they really look the part when completed and they're quite reasonably priced. I think you might be right Martin...the website has some nice photos of completed ones... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_t Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Don't forget the MMP ones if you fancy some in brass. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor H Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Oooh Pete, do I see this building into a cl26 and couple of mk1's. I personaly would go for the easybuild kits, nice and easy to build compared to the rest and reasonably priced, the most difficult part would be painting them. Trevor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium DavidLong Posted May 2, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 2, 2012 Halifax GOG do coming up 2nd June. Oooo. . .er. . . David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted May 2, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 2, 2012 Don't forget the MMP ones if you fancy some in brass. Thanks Richard - Good point...I had forgotten about these... I personaly would go for the easybuild kits, nice and easy to build compared to the rest and reasonably priced, the most difficult part would be painting them. Thanks Trevor - the painting puts me off most things...but some day I gotta use that new airbrush... Oooh Pete, do I see this building into a cl26 and couple of mk1's. You've seen through my plan...no prizes for guessing where it will be based... Halifax GOG do coming up 2nd June. Oooo. . .er. . . :yes: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEDSBEE Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 you can do a lot with lima mk1's without spending a fortune. If you put the right size wheels on them that brings the height up and as for them being too narrow it doesn't show up too much if you only run them with other Lima's. I've done a rake of 9 in Southern green with Easy Build bogies, brass handles, flexible corridor connections and white metal buffers and they look fine.I'm also in the process of doing some limas with the Aquitrain overlays which seem to give very good results although there is quite a lot of cutting out to do on some of them. I've also built a number of easy build coaches which I have found to be excellent models I especially like the bogies which I find easy to put together and very free running. Although I have nothing to do with any traders I find Shawn at easy build and Maurice at Aquitrain very helpfull, friendly and full of advice. Julian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted May 9, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 9, 2012 you can do a lot with lima mk1's without spending a fortune. If you put the right size wheels on them that brings the height up and as for them being too narrow it doesn't show up too much if you only run them with other Lima's. I've done a rake of 9 in Southern green with Easy Build bogies, brass handles, flexible corridor connections and white metal buffers and they look fine.I'm also in the process of doing some limas with the Aquitrain overlays which seem to give very good results although there is quite a lot of cutting out to do on some of them. I've also built a number of easy build coaches which I have found to be excellent models I especially like the bogies which I find easy to put together and very free running. Although I have nothing to do with any traders I find Shawn at easy build and Maurice at Aquitrain very helpfull, friendly and full of advice. Thanks Julian, That's good to hear...and very timely too, as I just bought 3 Lima Mk I's today via eBay and have also ordered an Easybuild Mk I kit too. Maurice gave me a quote for 3 refurbished Mk I's but the price is a bit out of my league at present, so I thought I would see what I can do myself. The Lima's will run together and gradually be replaced with Easybuild, but the idea was to have a small rake which would get me used to working at 7mm scale...as its a big jump from my usual 2mmFS Thanks again for your comments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brake Compo Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Although others have done this better before, the photos of my improved Limas are attached below. As noted previously, I modified these for a garden railway, so I believe that one would need to add more detail for an indoor layout, but hopefully my approach might give you a few ideas to improve on: Disassemble & discard bogies Remove all commode, grab & door handles carefully with a sharp scalpel.(I should also have removed the gangway connections and will on further rebuilds) Saw body in half longitudinally & cut away bogie area (see first photo). Cut new floor to stick over original in 80 thou plasticard, make 2 No. wooden blocks to fit against inside of coach to take overall width upto the correct 63mm (see second photo). (NB I am happy to lend these out AS LONG AS I GET THEM BACK). Smear floor very liberally with polystyrene cement, insert new floor & wooden blocks, hold with rubber bands around each block and lay upside down across one's block of ground plate glass, making sure that there is full contact from each side. This is essential to get everything square. Leave for at least 24 hours (I left each one for 48 hours). Glue in 80 thou strengthening piece inside ends, again with generous quantities of good old fashioned polystyrene cement. Fill in gaps in ends with stips of plasticard to make flush. Drill holes for door, commode & grab handles, and for filler pipes Rub down and spray paint (I still had problems with paint adherence - would be grateful for guidance from others on how they got good 'stick' on Limas). Paint window reveals matt black to hide thier thickness. Insert flushglaze (although this dops not have brilliant optical qualities, it does look better in real life than photo 4 indicates), but don't forget that the droplights and inner panels of the ventilators are NOT flush, thus the relevant bits of the flushglaze should be discarded. I dealt with this by glueing scrap falt panels of flushglaze to the inside of the body, but somebody doing a better job would semi recess them, as this made them too deep (but whioch still looks miles better than having everything flush. The roof and glazing is all one unit on a Lima (moulded in a horrible brittle plastic), cut off the glazing, just below the roofline, and saw the roof in half longitudally, making sure that cut is absolutely straight. Also remove roof ventalators with a file. Widen roof with carefully cut strips of plasticard, taking great care to maintain the correct profile. I found that a Halfords plastic filler spray was ideal for concealing the joins (and in the case of one of the roofs to conceal its tendency to chip when sawed). I then rubbed this down smooth when thoroughly hard. It might have been easier to roll up a new brass roof in the rolling bars than to do steps 12 and 13 - I will try this next time and see where I get... Drill and fit new roof vents (I used ABS ones), drill for tank filler and overflow pipes, etc. Make up & fit new door handles (I filed these out of Mainly Trains n/s strip). Ditto grab handles and Commode handles - I made a little bending jig for the commode handles out of a couple of bts of scrap brass in the usual way, I then bent these up in tinned copper wire and squashed the face in a vice to give the correct flat profile. Paint interior & detail with Slaters figures Add new bogies to taste (I found that the white metal sideframes added a lot of useful weight), fabricating supporting structure on underside out of plasticard as required. Glue on roof, solder up filler pipes and glue on. Would be interested to hear any alternative approaches... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted May 15, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 15, 2012 Would be interested to hear any alternative approaches... Many thanks for this detailed break down...Brake Compo. The finished coaches look great...well worth the effort. Can't bring myself to cut the Lima ones longitudinally just yet as I have only had them 3 days or so....but give it time...and I could be tempted Thanks for adding the text and photos - really good reference material. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSB Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Before you do chop them in half please bear in mind that although they a scale 6" too narrow overall the distance over the solebars is only a scale 2" under and the trusses are actually too far apart! When I bought my first LIMA Mk 1 I intended widening it until I discovered that the underframe was part of the body moulding (unlike their H0 versions which I had hacked about in the past) so rather than end up with an over-wide underframe I decided to leave it at it's original width - a decision which I am glad I made as I think they actually look better proportioned when left at their original width. I am appending a photo which I originally posted on another thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Some very nice modelling here. For what it's worth, I have one of the Easybuild MK1s and it looks like a smashing kit that's well put together. I'll actually build it one day too..... Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted May 17, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 17, 2012 Thanks HSB - nice picture too. I think I will leave them as is for now...although perhaps hack off the couplings as they look ridiculous coupled together... Sean - Agreed...took all the components and laid them out...does look nice...and the presentation/storage box is the icing on the cake... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brake Compo Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Many thanks for this detailed break down...Brake Compo. The finished coaches look great...well worth the effort. Thanks for the kind comments - I will tweak my "recipe" to make one or two points slightly clearer, and remove a couple of typos that I missed. I think that one could go a bit further with Limas - I cut a few corners with these as I wanted to finish them to go with a loco that my father was building as he was dying, sadly I just finished the coaches in time, but he did not make it with the loco... As I am unlikely to have a garden railway again I will probably do a little more surgery on them if I need them again - replacing the gangways as I intimated above and also cutting off much of the the underframe detail and rebuilding the truss rods with brass angle, although I do have a small stock of untouched Limas and a stock of the bits that I need, which I might do first. But as my interests tend to be pre-grouping these days this might take a while! The great thing is that they are such an inexpensive way of providing coaches - apart the bogies and wheels there is no real expense involved Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 What do you use to haul your Lima Mk 1's? Do they look ok after surgery against more modern and accurate locos? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brake Compo Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Nothing at the moment as I no longer have a 7 mm gauge layout and won't until the children grow up a bit more. As prevously noted the coaches were built for a large garden railway that my father and I had substantially completed; however, after he died I found it too painful to operate. Previously I had built (or bought in) all of the stock and he did most of the civil engineering. He had always wanted to build an 0 gauge loco and was building an Underhill Jinty as he was dying, which was to be an S&D based example, the Mk1 set modelled was also an S&D set. But we did run the set behind other locos and it looked the part (and certainly better than Heljans, which look all wrong a mile off), but as I have already stated above one would need to add more detail for a fully scenic indooor layout; however, this is eminently feasible - the important thing is to get the overall proportions right, which means getting the overall width right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Thanks for your reply. I understand and am sorry for your loss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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