Electrofrog point modification

[Ragtag]

I'm attaching a track plan showing the location of the 3 electrofrog points on my layout. I'd appreciate it if someone with more knowledge than I could advise on the best way to modify this setup to be 'DCC-friendly'. I've read up on the various methods available and am not sure which is the best to use in this situation, or where I need to use insulating rail joiners etc.

 

A, B and C are all electrofrog points, with red and blue dots representing the relevant power feeds (there are numerous feeds elsewhere on the layout). There is also scope to add power feeds between A and B and between B and C, but I wasn't sure if this might complicate matters further.

 

The points I'm using are Peco code 100 and I've made no modifications to them yet. Thank you in advance

 

[pitbull1845]

HI,

Firstly can I say that my knowledge is minimal when it comes to wiring frogs etc, however I use electrofrog points on my layout without any modifications and they work fine with DCC, even the double slip works fine with just two wires.

 

The way I do it is just to put insulated fish plates on the two inner rails at the V of the point. Its as simple as that for normal points. Your power feeds should be fine.

 

As I said, thats the way I do it and it works fine for me, there other ways but I just find that too complicated.

 

Are the rest of your points insulated then??

Good luck with it, and I await others to share thier views and say mine isnt right. lol

Cheers

Scott

[Ragtag]

The rest of the points are insulfrog, but I decided to go for electrofrog in the area where my shunter will be most active. It'll be easy enough to temporarily lay the track with the method you suggest and give it a test before trying other methods.

[Waverley81]

I must admit I tend to do the same. You can put in place a switching arrangement to swith the polarity with the point direction but so long as you have enough feeds to the track at regular intervals either side of the live frogs then all you need to do as suggested above is put insulating fish plates on the 2 inner rails.

[Pete the Elaner]

I use insuleted joiners on all 4 rails at the frog end of the point, but there is no reason why you cannot get away with 2.

I can see from your track plan that you will be re-feeding correctly.

 

The only thing to watch out for with your setup is that you will be relying on the point blades to make a good electrical connection but these can be unreliable, especially after rustpainting, ballasting & weathering the track.

To get around this, many of us connect a switch to the point motor & use this to feed the frog from the outside running rails (although a Peco switch failed on me at a show once). Any such switch MUST be thrown at the same time as the point or you will cause a short circuit.

 

As always, I must add that there is no such thing as 'wiring a point for DCC'. Good wiring is good wiring, period.

To convert a properly wired DC layout to DCC, just switch all circuits to the same DCC 'troller & turn them on.

[Kenton]

The rules for wiring points are very simple to remember and are not different for DCC than DC and never change no matter how often this question is asked.

 

They apply to all scales, gauges and track arrangements (I am yet to find one it doesn't)

 

The rules are ALWAYS:

1. provide power to each stock rail.

2. provide power to the frog - usually by a switch on/linked to the point motor.

3. use insulated "fishplates" to join the frog to both following rails.

 

There are possible areas you can cut back on but, if you don't understand what you are doing just follow the rule.

 

 

I cannot think of any good reason for using insulfrog.

you cannot have too many droppers - so add them to every length of track as well as the stock rails.

never rely on Peco switch blades to do the job of electrical continuity.

 

You usually only have to wire the layout once, so get it right from the start.

 

 

There are physical modifications that can be made to a point - eg cutting and bonding - but this is rarely required unless you have really old stock and poor back-2-back adherence.

[pitbull1845]

Its a good "point" raised about relying on the point blades to make the connection. I have only had one issue but it is a ###### when it goes wrong.

I don't know how to wire up the frog which is why I don't do it. I have trouble wiring a plug!

 

Cheers

Scott

 

 

[Crosland]

The rules for wiring points are very simple to remember and are not different for DCC than DC and never change no matter how often this question is asked.

 

They apply to all scales, gauges and track arrangements (I am yet to find one it doesn't)

 

The rules are ALWAYS:

1. provide power to each stock rail.

2. provide power to the frog - usually by a switch on/linked to the point motor.

2. use insulated "fishplates" to join the frog to both following rails.

 

4. Isolate the switch rails form the frog and electrically bond them to the adjacent stock rails.

 

The last step is the one that stops you being dependant on contact between the stock rail and piont blade.

 

Andrew Crosland

[Pete the Elaner]

I don't know how to wire up the frog which is why I don't do it. I have trouble wiring a plug!

 

Why not take a point (& whatever motor you use) with you to an exhibition & ask somebody? I am sure there would be many layout operators pleased to help.

 

I know from working on an exhibition layout which uses blades for electrical continuity that once the rail has been painted, ballasted & weathered, continuity is unreliable. I've not known a day to go past without having to re-clean a point blade or two due to stalling.

[john dew]

I agree with all the comments about not relying on the switch blade to provide electrical continuity. Brian Lambert (?) of this parish has a great web site that covers how to do this.......I cant remember the address but a search on the old RM Web might help

 

One writer mentioned the importance of a robust, reliable switching mechanism linked to the point motor to switch polarity. The little peco switch is neither......I have had 3 fail on me......so one side of the frog is without power.................always in an inaccesible part of the layout The peco micro switch is better but fiddly to assemble and relatively expensive......I switched (sorry!) to micro switches that you can get from an electronic supply store but when I added up the cost plus the peci motor I realised (with the current exchange rate) that a tortoise cost the same, gave you an additional switch for sinals etc and are allegedly indestructible. Many of the gurus on this forum (eg Beast) whose opinion I value argue very strongly for this optionso I am installing them with all my nre construction.

 

There is a long thread about this on the old site

 

Kind Regards

[96701]

I too use Tortoise motors, I have connected the switch rails and stock rails to track feeds, broken the connections between switch rails and crossing (frog) and used one of the switches on the Tortoise to switch the supply to the crossing. The nett result is faultless running across my Peco Code 75 Electrofrog points. You don't need to be a whizz at wiring, although my soldering techniques need improving on because I've managed to distort the plastic sleepers by soldering wires and suchlike in the gaps between to sleepers on the underside of the rails.

[Ron Solly]

Pittbull/ Scott - have a good read of this site working your way down

 

http://brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical.htm#Points

[Ragtag]

First let me say thank you for all of the useful replies so far.

 

Ron - thank you for that link, a very useful site for someone who has forgotten just about everything they ever knew about electronics.

[Neal Ball]

I too had many queries and concerns about wiring points. However, having now watched the Right Track DVD: Practical aspects of DCC I now understand.

 

Can not recommend the two DVD (number 8 and 9) highly enough.