Swindon Cross Country DMUs

[Brian Kirby]

Hi Everyone,

Two Craftsman conversion kits have been in stock unmade for far too long. Both will utilise the chassis and bogies from a Lima 117, but only the roof will be used from the Lima body. Not much is left of the bodies anyway, having been cannibalised to donate body panels for previous conversions. The kits were designed to overlay the Lima shells with appropriate openings made for the new windows. I'm going to construct these differently, soldering the sides and ends like a regular coach kit, just re-using the plastic roof, gangways and exhausts.

 

The first jobs are to roll and form the tumblehome on the sides, as seen above, then add the door detail and handrails. I have replaced the oversize Craftsman grab handles with spares from Southern Pride kits. I'm not adding brass hinge detail, but will add a cosmetic ink version, when painting is completed. One problem with brass hinges, especially the more angled, is that the paint forever wears or chips off. The next task is to fold up and solder the cab fronts, followed by the destination blind box, which is dead tricky to line up. I'm not adding the cab handrails at this stage, that will be done once the sides and ends are joined, in case the handrails move during assembly.

Cheers, Brian.

 

[Brian Kirby]

After grinding off any excess solder and bumps on the inside, the next stage is to join the ends and the sides into 'L' sections, followed by the joining of these to form a box section.

 

 

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

I've still got to add those cab handrails and to round off the cab corners, but i'm keen to check the fit of the roofs and to make sure everything is square and straight. With the plastic roof joined on, this will give it all some rigidity, and the plastic should be far enough away from the handrail soldering, without resorting to heatsinks.

 

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Here are some pics showing the inside of the bodies, the roofs were superglued on the inside, starting at the inside ends, for which i kept part of the square Lima end for alignment. Then i just gradually work forward ( even managing to superglue one corner to my shirt and me underneath! ), the cab roof front and guttering will have to be filed back anyway. Extra strengthening will be added later.

 

 

 

 

Here's the progress so far on the six bodies ( 2 x 3-car units )

Cheers, Brian.

 

 

[37114]

Great stuff Brian, I will watch with interest as I am building one for our club which has been a challenge as it was bought part assembled to an indifferent standard. I like your idea of binning the Lima sides, have you thought about how you will secure it to the chassis as I presume the body will be too wide for the chassis?

[Richard_A]

I like this thread.

 

I have a derby lightweight kit and was pondering how to go about building it without hacking at yet another model

[Butler Henderson]

Great photos - just the way I gladly remember the real things, bodies stacked up for scrapping but then anyone else who suffered the clapped out wrecks that rattled away from Etches Park probably thinks the same.

[Brian Kirby]

Yes, it does look a bit like Vic Berry's scrapyard, especially with all my odd bits of junk lying on the workbench! These and their Gloucester cousins were always amongst my favourite types. I remember them well in their heyday on the WR, particularly in Cornwall, West Wales and on the Swansea-Cardiff-Birmingham run, so building these is a bit of a trip down memory lane. It must have been sad to see them in a run-down condition in later years on other regions, also a shame that a complete Swindon unit did not survive.

 

Thanks for all the replies so far, i've been working out a neater way of attaching the bodies to the chassis. I don't want to use the Lima screw and tube from the ceiling method, a bit too clumsy and conspicuous. I'm making some use of the original end clips instead, more pics to follow.

Cheers, Brian.

[cary hill]

Perfect timing for me.

 

I was "de-tarnishing" my Craftsman Class 120 kit only the other week, so following this build may be just the impetus required to "kick-start" my own build.

 

Thanks for sharing such a "photo-rich" build

[Brian Kirby]

I've decided to re-use the original Lima end clips, so the underframes will locate into a slot at the cab ends and the toilet ends of the buffets, then the spring clip will locate at the opposite end, so no screws involved. I'm not a huge fan of clip fittings, some RTR coaches are a nightmare to get apart, but this will be a simple solution and gentle clicking fit into position, plus now there is no intrusion into the cab or passenger interior. To achieve this i have restored the full depth Lima inside ends ( with their respective slots ) as an internal partition and chopped up the original slotted cab glazing to fit under the cab dashboard. Here are a couple of pics. BK

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Turning my attention to the bogies and chassis, i've made a start of re-wheeling the original bogies, which is complicated by the fact that they run on 24.5 axles. My cheap solution is to remove the Lima wheels from their axles and replace with some 3ft size stripped from the Bachmann spares range. This pic shows a re-wheeled bogie at the front and an unmodified original behind.

 

 

One of the problems with the Lima 117 vehicles, are that they all stand too tall, the underframe riding too high on the bogies. My solution for the trailers, is to cut square holes in the position of the bogie pivots, they have to be large enough to clear the round boss on the Lima bogie. I then glue a section of 40thou plasticard above the hole and re-drill a new bogie pivot to the original size.

 

 

This shows a modified chassis above, original below.

 

 

Here's a closer view of the modified buffet centre car chassis. BK

 

[the penguin of doom]

Hi Brian.

 

Just found thus thread and will be watching progress with interest.

 

A novel way of adapting the Lima model and it seems to be working well so far. Very innovative.

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

[Richard_A]

would it be possible to use triang/Hornby mk1 coach roofs if I was to build a craftsman kit in this way?

 

As I said I don't really want to chop up a dmu just to make one of these and there is usually a supply of these available

[the penguin of doom]

would it be possible to use triang/Hornby mk1 coach roofs if I was to build a craftsman kit in this way?

 

As I said I don't really want to chop up a dmu just to make one of these and there is usually a supply of these available

 

If it is possible RKA, and I'm sure Brian will point you right with that part of the query, try Southern Pride out. They stock all.their parts for MK1's as spares, so it may work out even cheaper.

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

[Brian Kirby]

Yes, as Sean suggests, it's perfectly feasible to mix and match with other supplier's parts. These Craftsman conversion kits are not the easiest of projects, half the problems are in adapting the intended Lima bodies, so could even be easier using other roof sections, etc. For me, the most challenging Craftsman mods were two Class 108 units, which again used the Lima 117, but of course the bodies and chassis had to be shortened as well. All headbanging stuff, i've still got another two 108 and a 79xxx lightweight kit, which if built, may be more easily built using Comet or even Southern Pride roofs. Here's a DC Kits 120 kit with new scratchbuilt sides to produce a Second Series 126 unit. BK

 

 

[the penguin of doom]

Those 126's are looking very nice Brian.

 

The cutting is very crisp - wish I had that skill, my DP2 would have been much more simple!

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

[Brian Kirby]

As promised to Penguin Sean and for anybody else interested, here are some pics of the DC Kit versions of Classes 119 and 120. The good news is the bodyside mouldings do have the correct profile, with a straight top three-quarters and the tumblehome on just the bottom quarter. Looks like some window bars need painting to match! BK

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Back to the Craftsman kit conversions, i've been busy lowering the other chassis and removing all door steps, except those at the cab ends. One of the visual differences from the Gloucesters, is that the Swindon type had deeper solebars, so i am pondering on how to achieve this, probably a plasticard overlay on the side or bottom, or both. I also believe that the engine and underframe equipment layout differed between the classes, but i will most likely address this at a later stage. The next job is to finish off any solder work on handrails, etc., and round off the cab corners.

Here's one of the lowered DMS cars.

 

 

 

This is one of the DMBC cars, unfortunately this body donor had already lost it cab roof to another conversion years ago. More work!

 

 

Here's an interesting comparison, a 120 DMBC nearest and a 1956 Class 126 DMBS behind with the guard's compartment next to the cab. Despite appearances, both vehicles are the same length, i blame the camera! BK

 

[IC126]

Lovely work on both the Craftsman kit and the other conversions, Brian.

 

One tip that might help re the "deepening" of the solebars of the Swindon units - they do have quite deep solebars (due to the integral construction), but they also have conduit runs strapped to the bottom of the solebars along much of the length - some plastic rod may help the illusion here.

 

The runs on the RHS of the class 126 power cars seems to be continuous, whereas the LHS is in shorter (visible) sections. The DMS and DMBS cars seem to be identical below the solebar.

 

The 120s are likely to be similar, but check a photo...

 

DMS car: LHS

 

DMS car: RHS

 

DMBS car: LHS

 

DMBS car: RHS

[SRman]

Losing the cab roof on that donor body may not be a bad thing. When I did my Craftsman 120 many years ago I used the 117 bodies as per their instructions; it took a lot of trial and error reprofiling the cab roof domes before I was happy with the result (whether or not it is absolutely correct!). It may be just as easy to start them from scratch.

 

[MJI]

Do I do DC Kits or Craftmen conversion?

[chrisf]

Do I do DC Kits or Craftmen conversion?

 

A lot will depend on your skills levels - whether you are better at plastic modelling or soldering, for instance.

 

In favour of using a DC kit would for me be the desire for flush glazing. The plastic sides are thick enough to hold glazing material cut or moulded to fit in the aperture. I have no idea how thin the Craftsman sides are but my bet is that they are thin enough to necessitate mounting the glazing material inside the coach. If I were making a coach from etched brass I would add a layer of something at each window thick enough to grip the glazing panes - a window frame, in effect.

 

Chris

 

BTW - I neglected to welcome back Brian Kirby after too long an absence!

[Brian Kirby]

Hi there Chris, and thanks to IC126 and SRman, i love those brilliant pictures of the preserved 126 unit, love those signals too.

 

I've been pondering the bogie details, so here's my first conversion of the Lima sideframes to the Swindon style. The nylon-type plastic is nasty stuff to work on, i've carved off unwanted details and added a black plasticard overlay. I want a quick and easy fix, what do RMwebbers think? Original bogie to the left for comparison. BK

 

 

[MJI]

Looking at the etched version - the cab corners are too sharp so would need to be radiused

[SRman]

I like what you have done to the bogies, Brian. I shied off any mods to those because of that plastic you mentioned - it doesn't take most glues at all well. I also like the way you lowered the ride height.

 

Also, you mentioned the deeper solebars on the Swindon units (or someone did, anyway!). I never gotta round tuit but I was thinking in terms of some plasticard strips added below the solebars on the DMBC and DMS coaches. They would also go some way towards reducing the gap between the solebars and the tops of the bogies.

 

Incidentally, my conversion used the original Lima class 117 motor but I more recently bought a Hornby 121 to swap the chassis and convert to DCC at the same time.

 

For the front handrails, as you might pick from my photo, I used wire but I used the Craftsman etched brass handrails for all of the side mounted ones - a mistake as they are too flat, to wide and too weak, getting flattened against the sides every time I try to transport the unit to someone else's layout (or to an exhibition). Use wire if you can, tedious as that might be.