Cumbres and Toltec RR, Colorado/New Mexico, US

[paulr1949]

Hello folks

 

Hope someone can answer me this question - is it better to go west to east (Chama-Antonito) or east-west? (a) from the enthusiast's viewpoint (ie steeper climb, better views of front of train from the rear etc.) and ( B) from the general viewpoint (quality of scenery etc). I gather it is better to sit on the south side of the train

 

thanks in advance

[roundhouse]

We did the trip from Chama to Antonito then got the coach back to Chama.

 

There is much more to see at Chama and it is a wonderful climb out of Chama. At the Antonito end it's general scrub. At Atonito there wasn't much back in 1999 when we did the trip and when you get off the train you get straight onto the coach to take you back to Chama so you don't get time anyway.

An early arrival in Chama gives you plenty of time o look round assuming they still let you wander over the tracks.

 

Ian

 

Edited as should have said Antonito not Alamosa!

[trisonic]

I'm going to have this thread moved to USA and Canadian Railroads. You'll more likely to get replies to it there.

 

Best, Pete.

[paulr1949]

We did the trip from Chama to Alamosa thn got the coach back to Chama.

 

There is much more to see at Chama and it is a wonderful climb out of Chama. At the Alamosa end it's general scrub. At Alamosa there wasn't much back in 1999 when we did the trip and when you get off the train you get straight onto the coach to take you back to Chama so you don't get time anyway.

An early arrival in Zchma gives you plenty of time o look round assuming they still let you wander over the tracks.

 

Ian

 

thanks Ian

[warbonnetuk]

Did it back in 2001 when only one loco was in steam so the day scheduled in on our trip was Alamosa - Charma only then the bus back. By the time we got to Charma it was pretty much straight back on the bus with no time for a nose round. Also Antonito, where you'd prob end up staying in if you go from Alamosa isn't the prettiest place I've stayed in....

 

Dan

[Adrian]

We did the trip back in 1996 so some things may have changed. We did Antonito to Chama on the train and the return bus, this was because we were on a fly drive and the route meant getting to Chama in time for the first train was difficult.

 

Yes the Chama side would have more of interest to look around and the climb out of Chama is interesting so as others have said probably nice to start there. However with that said the trip starting from Antonito has it's benefits, the depot is more open plan, the trip then builds up slowly, across the wild west scrubland slowly rising up onto the high Mesa. As you progress through the tunnels the views and scenery just get more spectacular. Exiting the tunnel into the Toltec Gorge was stunning, then Osier and the run down to Chama is great. If you do the Chama to Antonito train then the second half will be the poorer cousin. So I suppose it depends whether you want the specatular stuff at the beginning or end of the trip, either way you'll love it.

 

For the scenery then yes the south side seems better however a couple of points. Depending on the time of the year then the South side will be exposed to the sun, we did the Durango and Silverton and on that we got the sunny side and it became unbearably hot at times. The great thing with Cumbres and Toltec was that we could wander about the carriages with ease and they have an open air pagoda wagon. It wasn't that popular in 1996 so there was plenty of room to wander around the open air wagon.

 

[purgatory]

Hi Pail,

Enyoy your trip and the food stop at Osier, we started our trip at Antoneto and the coach picked us up at Cubres then we went to Charma by coach to look around the yard. The line has been takenover by the same people that run the Durango line, and some thing are changing, you can nolonger wander around in the yard, some new fiencing will no doubt be installed, have a look at the company website http://www.ctsrr.com/index.html or some other websites for the latest news http://www.goatbbs.com/

The Charma line was the line I liked the most, the Durango line seemed more stricked (no moving from your seat etc)

 

You could always do both directions

 

have a good time

(Purgatory Peak was inspired by the area) http://sites.google.com/site/purgatorypeakmodelrailroad/home

 

Neil

[Adrian]

The Charma line was the line I liked the most, the Durango line seemed more stricked (no moving from your seat etc)

Likewise, the Durango line was more Disney Land whereas the Cumbres Toltec was the enthusiasts line.

 

Of course if you go at the right time of year you could see some spectacular snow clearing, although from the comments I don't think the rotary snow blower has been used for many years.

 

http://youtu.be/Wr8Z-PL2zrw

[roundhouse]

We did the Durango line first. it was a Greg ride but you had to be sitting in your seat a half hour before departure of the train and o moving about to different coaches.

The Cumbres route was far more relaxed and more akin to UK preservation, so will be a shame if things change on it. It was our favourite of the two by a long way.

 

Ian

[paulr1949]

Thank you all for your comments, especially for the links Neil. I think I shall stay at Chama for three nights, do the trip out from Chama on one day and then drive around taking photos at the road crossings etc on the other.

[roundhouse]

Paul

That sounds a great way to do it. I wish I had spent some at Chana to lineside the line but as usual we fitted too much into our trip so we only had one day to do the C & T. If the weather is good then you will have a great time.

 

Ian

[purgatory]

Hi Paul

Have a look at the other lines, La Vita out Antonito and the Royal Gorge both SG lines when in Denver go to the Museum at Boulder (on our trip we managed 1hr before the guide moved us on to the "Garden of the Gods" I could have spent the day there!)

the George Town Loop is another line we missed.

 

Best of luck with the planing

 

Neil

[Guest Belgian]

I've visited the line twice (in 2004 and 2008) and it is surely one of the greatest railway experiences. Both times were with charters and we were based at Chama on each occasion, although we spent the night in Antonito on the first occasion, taking the train from Chama to Antonito on one day, staying overnight and returning to Chama the following day.

 

The most exciting working is the initial climb, eastbound, out of Chama, followed by the climb up around the mountain to the top at Cumbres. Thereafter it's still a fascinating journey onto Antonito, but without the all-out blasts. The return, obviously, climbs to Cumbres from the east, but over a far longer distance and therefore without the all-out display. If you are only going to travel in one direction it's no contest: start at Chama.

 

There is, I believe, the option to go out from Chama to Ossier (the lunch stop) and then return to Chama on the eastbound train which had started at Antonito but it would be a shame to miss the Ossier to Antonito part of the journey, which crosses the Cascade Trestle and runs along a ledge high on the hillside before descending to the plains before Antonito. These do very much resemble the desert of Utah/Wyoming through which the Overland Route was forged and it's easy to imagine your train being held up by outlaws or Indians - surely part of the experience (shame they don't do such re-enactments).

 

I'm sad to hear that the line has been taken over by the Durango management as they have made the Silverton line somewhat anodyne by comparison to the Cumbres one, which was certainly far more friendly and 'real'. The Durango one is somewhat 'Disneyfied'. The yellow coaches look rather too bright whilst the Cumbres' deep maroon ones look rather more alive.

 

One other thing, if you go at a particularly busy time, the train from Chama to Cumbres might be double-headed.

, however, it is a freight! (Only used on charters of course).

 

JE

[paulr1949]

Hi Paul

Have a look at the other lines, La Vita out Antonito and the Royal Gorge both SG lines when in Denver go to the Museum at Boulder (on our trip we managed 1hr before the guide moved us on to the "Garden of the Gods" I could have spent the day there!)

the George Town Loop is another line we missed.

 

Best of luck with the planing

 

Neil

Hi Neil

 

That was my plan - unfortunately I misread the La Veta website and found that the Thursday trains stop at the end of August, so I can't do that one (I'm flying back to England on the Friday night)

I might manage the Royal George (did the Georgetown Loop last time) and I hope to get to the museum at Golden.

[paulr1949]

I've visited the line twice (in 2004 and 2008) and it is surely one of the greatest railway experiences. Both times were with charters and we were based at Chama on each occasion, although we spent the night in Antonito on the first occasion, taking the train from Chama to Antonito on one day, staying overnight and returning to Chama the following day.

 

The most exciting working is the initial climb, eastbound, out of Chama, followed by the climb up around the mountain to the top at Cumbres. Thereafter it's still a fascinating journey onto Antonito, but without the all-out blasts. The return, obviously, climbs to Cumbres from the east, but over a far longer distance and therefore without the all-out display. If you are only going to travel in one direction it's no contest: start at Chama.

 

There is, I believe, the option to go out from Chama to Ossier (the lunch stop) and then return to Chama on the eastbound train which had started at Antonito but it would be a shame to miss the Ossier to Antonito part of the journey, which crosses the Cascade Trestle and runs along a ledge high on the hillside before descending to the plains before Antonito. These do very much resemble the desert of Utah/Wyoming through which the Overland Route was forged and it's easy to imagine your train being held up by outlaws or Indians - surely part of the experience (shame they don't do such re-enactments).

 

I'm sad to hear that the line has been taken over by the Durango management as they have made the Silverton line somewhat anodyne by comparison to the Cumbres one, which was certainly far more friendly and 'real'. The Durango one is somewhat 'Disneyfied'. The yellow coaches look rather too bright whilst the Cumbres' deep maroon ones look rather more alive.

 

One other thing, if you go at a particularly busy time, the train from Chama to Cumbres might be double-headed.

, however, it is a freight! (Only used on charters of course).

 

JE

Yes I am rather hoping that this year will still be as it has always been reported to be (ie different). The D&S is still a great ride (went on it in 1994!) and I'm looking forward to them both. As you can see above, the reason I have an extra day is because I can't visit the La Veta pass line