Leadmill Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Hello there Been toying with idea for a modern image armoured train that could be theoretically feasible for use on the modern network. I do a bit of rail pixel art in my spare time and came up with the following concept. So I present the concept for the fictional Ministry of Defence Civil and Rail Protection Unit With the economic downturn and increasing rise in extremism on both the political and religious spectrums, even in the occourance of large scale disasters a concurrent increase in wide scale civil disorder and rioting has followed. Realising that maintaining control of critical transport links and re-establishing order in an affected area would be a major priority, the goverment commissioned a tri-service committee in conjuction with Network Rail, to look how resources and manpower could be rapidly deployed to trouble hotspots to assist in the quelling of civil unrest, while keeping the transport links open. The Civil and Rail Protection Unit's were born. Thier purpose would be to be able to transport emergency equipment, and urban pacification teams to thier destination quickly and safely. The Network Rail MPV was chosen to form the base of the units due to thier availibility, usefulness, and easy customibility. The design is that each vehicle has a driving cab and an under floor engine/transmission with Multiple unit (MU) control. This better protects the engine from thrown missles and petrol bomb type weapons. Each armoured cab end is equipped with blue LED strobes, spot lights, civil address system, and armour plated windows. A barricade removal system is fitted to each end to enable objects to be cleared from the path of the train with causing it to derail. The modular design of the MPV allows various pods to be equipped, however most civil defence units are equipped with the following as standard :- - A 1500litre water tank to provide firefighting support in areas to areas where mains water is either unavailable or unobtainable by local fire services. - Mobile Medical Unit, this small unit houses important medical supplies, as during serious emergency periods such as a major disaster or civil insurrection, hospital resources either run out or are looted. It is also equipped with facilities to treat casualties, until they can be moved to civilian hospitals. The module is equipped with a telescoping spotlight, able to reach 50ft in height. It provides much needed illumination for immediate area in cases where local power supplies are disrupted. - Mobile Barracks Unit, these modules provide accomadation for the embarked contingent of soldiers/police. They also contain the armoury and equipment lockers, as well as limited rest/recreation facilities. The barracks is also equipped with a remote control 40mm grenade laucher controlled from inside the barracks. This is used to disperse a variety of less lethal ammunition including smoke and tear gas grenades, commonly used to disperse riotous crowds it encounters either en route or at destination stations/locations. A small stock of explosive HE and fragmentation ammunition is also kept onboard, if serious threats to the saftey of the train are encountered. - Towed between the two MPV units typically will be about 2 transport wagons carrying the embarked contingents vehicular support. These will commonly be riot/public specification vehicles, resistent to gunfire, petrol bombs etc. These will typically be offloaded once the MPV reaches the destination and used to secure the immediate area and establish a beach head or safe zone, while additional resources are brought in. Since doing my research I have come across a number of kits/rtr items that would make modelling such a project less difficult as I envisaged. White metal kits however are little challenging to a relative beginner such as myself so progress is slow. Any suggestions/ideas for evolution of the concept are much appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdseyecircus Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Love the idea in the Millitary sense! But...... in Civil Defence i would have thought its use would be limited. Even with armoured windows and obstruction deflectors it would be useless against rioters parking say a bulldozer on the line or indeed ripping up the line all together. Be good in a James Bond role ( thinking Goldeneye with the class 20) Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted May 29, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 29, 2012 Well I suppose you could add Warwells, or one of the enginnering well wagons, with through cabing to carry a tracked quick response vehicles. I don't think there'd be any point in armouring it as such as it's not going to go into crowd situations, but mesh screens on windows like riot vans might protect the crew from yobs throwing stuff at the least. The Armoured train had it's last gasp of effective use in WWII on the vast plains of Russia as it was too vunerable and easy to ambush. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Hi All, How about armour on the cabs to make it a bit like this retro - futuristic looking beast? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M25_Tank_Transporter It may be no good but it would look cool! Also, what about some sort of Hiab type crane thing to facillitate rail repairs? Turntables / ramp arrangements under each road vehicle to allow them to get off the train anywhere, at any time, without uncoupling the train. Perhaps a water tank from the MPV's previous life could be retained for a water cannon that could be mounted on top? Also an armoured coach for personel in the middle could be good. A further thought is that it could be repurposed for disaster relief either in the UK or abroad. In this mode it could do all sorts of things - including carry its own helicopter, medical / hospital coach, water supplies & pumps, etc (the container trials done with this vehicle are a good starting point). It could have a series of different containers each with its own dedicated purpose and housed in a warehouse with a container loading crane and staff, etc.. The vast range of different containers out there today would give you myriad possibilities. It would be like a railway version of Thunderbird 2! Containerisation has given us a fast and efficient way of getting loads on and off rail and road vehicles for financial reasons. Let's put that to some good use! Imagine this... There is a submarine that sinks just off the coast of the UK. The scramble signal goes out! The crew at the warehouse selects the decompression chamber, the aquatic ROV equipment, the hospital and the crew containers. The specialist crew runs aboard and MPV Rescue 1 is off to the coast. As they leave, the signallers clear the line ahead and MPV Rescue 1 is rushed to the docks. The track ends a little way from the docks so the loading crane (this sort of thing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Container_forklift.jpg), that is carried as part of the standard MPV Rescue 1 set up, off loads the containers onto waiting requisitioned container lorries. And there you have it several tons of very heavy but vital equipment, delivered on site in a matter of a few hours. The vital decompression chamber - big enough to hold many survivors, is on site with the attendant medical staff. Turn that into a major flooding incident, an earthquake, major terrorist incident, collapsed building, electricity black out due to solar flares, etc, etc, etc and the possibillity for the contents of that warehouse grows and grows. Cheap, easy to store, ready at a moments notice, fast transport in bulk and the possibillity of quick transshipment right into the incident site if the rails won't reach. Probably not hugely useful in this country as it is quite small but if you look at some larger or sparser populated nations then it could be viable. Talk about a really interesting and novel layout too! All the bits relatively easy to get hold off - including the large, DCC controlled, travelling crane for inside the warehouse. Operation could be totally random (computer program anyone?) and down to the individual disaster / incident that has 'occured'. The challenge being to make up the train out of the containers in the warehouse and get it off to the disaster ASAP. The containers could be as complex or as simple as you want to make them. Either fully detailed within the sort of 'container framework' you see tankers in or with just transfers to denote the contents and a few additional hatches or vents on the outside. Full DCC with sound would be a must and perhaps the Faller model car system could be used too to deliver specific specialist personel (Doctors, Nurses, Engineers, etc.) or get them home again at the end of the incident. As it is the emergency centre warehouse side of things, there are no issues of potential 'poor taste modelling' that has been much discussed on this forum (please don't start that one again here - Leadmill doesn't want his thread locked!). Add two or more MPVs into the equation and multiple incidents and things could get pretty complex, pretty quickly. Cases where one container is rushed back from one incident, restocked / serviced and rushed out to the second (or back to the first) means operators could be kept very busy. Plain supplies only containers could also be used and incidents of equipment failure (such as fork lift break downs) means many things in and out, on the double. How about an ex main line diesel (class 47 / 57 perhaps) on Virgin style Thunderbird recovery duties or to take larger emergency trains? It would be really interesting and exciting to operate, and keep everyone on their toes. Totally unique, novel and an absolute show stopper! It kind of becomes a 3D shunting puzzle with really tight deadlines. You could do similar with the millitary side of things I suppose but I suspect that the emergency services thing would be more fun and adaptable as an idea. Remember the police liveried Class 47? White livery with blue, DCC controlled flashing lights at each end on your MPV anyone? I'll get my coat (as per usual)... All the best, Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Quite a good idea that. It's got me thinking of a plausible scenario. How about a near future one where post-independence, the Scottish Government sets up a Civil Defence, disaster relief organisation along the lines of Germany's THW, operating from a specially adapted ex-military station such as Leuchars with a rail connection, MPVs being scrambled to the railhead nearest the site of the problem and as previously stated, carrying equipment specific to the task. Much of the THW s equipment is similar to that used by army engineers so it would give potential for AVRE-type vehicles in an attractive emergency-type livery. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadmill Posted May 30, 2012 Author Share Posted May 30, 2012 The disaster response/emergency idea is a really good one. Tempted to try and sketch out a concept when i get some time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Given that the majority of us aren't familiar with what "things look like" inside military bases, there's less chance for rivet counters to pick apart your design too There aren't enough "what if" style layouts on the exhibition circuit... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 How about armour on the cabs to make it a bit like this retro - futuristic looking beast? Been done http://newenglanddepot.homestead.com/MBTA_F40.html I quite like the disaster response idea though... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquireBev Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 There aren't enough "what if" style layouts on the exhibition circuit... True dat. I'd love to see more sci-fi and fantasy layouts. Steampunk too, all you'd have to do is add shiny brasswork to everything... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Hi All, I presume you have seen Pirate Cove then Squire Bev? Scroll about half way down this page: http://carendt.us/scrapbook/page100/index.html Enjoy if you haven't! Sorry for getting very off topic... All the best, Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquireBev Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I love it. Delightfully silly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon H Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 There are a few practical details that need to be considered too. Many of these can be related directly to the designs of the various military road vehicles that have come into service over the past few years which can often be seen on TV in programs such as 'Road Warriors'. The proposed underfloor transmission system would be vulnerable to track level explosions, so a V shaped chassis would be advisable to deflect blast from such devices. Bar armour along the sides and across the fronts would help overcome many of the simpler thrown items already mentioned, as well as the more serious threat of RPGs. Regarding the proposed remote weapon station... if it is expected to be able to use conventional ammunition as well as being a grenade launcher, a better arrangement would be to have two of them instead, one at each end over the driving cab. Then the fire inhibit zones will be reduced allowing forwards/rearwards firing, as well as side-on. A sniper detection system at each end would also help. All in all, it might be simpler and cheaper to contrive a way of allowing existing road convoy vehicles to be fitted with retractable or removable rail wheels and coupled together to form a train. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadmill Posted June 1, 2012 Author Share Posted June 1, 2012 Gordon thank you for your reply. I did try a design with IED/RPG resistance in mind for rail protection duties for places like Afghanistan. Using the Mastiff PPV and an old South African design for inspiration. I do have a more detailed description for it somewhere, but I don't want to bore you ladies and gents. However you probably have the right of it, having road/rail vehicles would probably be far more plausible/practical. But albeit less fun to model! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon H Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I did try a design with IED/RPG resistance in mind for rail protection duties for places like Afghanistan. Using the Mastiff PPV and an old South African design for inspiration. Suggest you use the Ridgback variant of the Mastiff for your 'Power Car' outer vehicles as they already have an RWS fitted which meets your requirements... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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