RMweb Gold 4630 Posted June 9, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 9, 2012 Whilst I fully understand the public's love of steam and therefore, the need to run steam that appeals to families etc, preserved railways could do more to educate their customers with regard to their diesel locos. Many of these locos are now approaching, or have passed, 50 years old and some have seen an incredible number of man hours involved in their restoration usually from a small number of dedicated volunteers. Whilst I agree with you, I think this would be an up hill task if the comments from my partner were anything to go by when we visited the Swanage Railway last week . Mrs 4630 was full of admiration for what the volunteers have achieved by reinstating the track since closure by BR; the development of the stations; the intention to reopen the line throughout eventually for services to Wareham and generally making an interesting time out for visitors. But she was adamant that it had to be a steam train. Nothing else would do. In her words, if she wanted a diesel she could travel on one "any day of the week". My pointing out that diesel locomotive haulage of regular service passenger trains on the UK rail network is pretty limited these days didn't persuade her. My observation that both the class 33/1 and the bubble car at Swanage had longer service lives with BR than either of the two steam locomotives in service that day (34028 Eddystone and 80104) cut no ice either. 4630 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted June 9, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 9, 2012 I'm happy for the thread to go wherever it goes. There are quite deep implications vis a vis the whole dwindling volunteer question, whether that is exacerbated by steam v diesel divisions for ionstance which maybe doesn't belong here. One of the reasons why I think it is a strange move is that from September the Mid Hants will have 6 steam locos and 3 diesel locos available for service. Unless these things are going to be farmed out all over the place or management have some radical plan which they are keeping a secret from the people who will have to implement them it's difficult to see where they are all going to get work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Temeraire Posted June 9, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 9, 2012 Personally I think its great news, a Class 50 back on my doorstep! I just hope that it will see regular use on a line that is known as 'diesel unfriendly' whether that is true or not? I will also make contact with the owner to see if there's anything a novice can do to help as a volunteer as its so close, it would be good to get up close and personal with one of these beasts! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 838rapid Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I have been following this thread since it started yesterday and have read it all the way through. Am afraid I don't see Phils point about winging that the class 50 is coming as really a valid thing. Surely the people at management level have decided it is allowed to be based there,and any gripe by its members needs to be addressed with them. Is this the politics of the old MHR rearing its ugly head again,I remember years ago hearing of all sorts of incidents happening at this railway due to lets say personalities not getting on. This thread seems to be almost veering into the fact that "I dont like you anymore so I am taking my football home" There is enough hassles in the world without lets all have a moan about what is in all intensive purposes something that we have little power over. Sorry Guys but its up to the members to raise this at the next AGM.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted June 9, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 9, 2012 I really don't mind, indeed welcome opposite points of view to mine, people who know me know I enjoy a robust discussion. What I don't like is uninformed people dragging up 'MHR politics' whenever an issue concerning this railway comes up. It's boring, irrelevant and was done and dusted 10 years ago. We've all moved on, other armchair occupants haven't it would seem. Management can make whatever decisions they want, but the difference here is that a volunteer force have to implement these decisions. By definition you volunteer to do something that by and large you enjoy. I, and the large majority of volunteers on the MHR, enjoy working with steam locos. If the railway were to go in a direction which we found that we didn't enjoy we would stop volunteering on the railway. Volunteering as a concept for anything is a dying on its feet. For instance at the moment on the MHR we have a chronic shortage of drivers, caused by the shortage of suitable volunteers coming through the ranks. The point I'm trying to (longwindedly) make is that in a mainly volunteer organisation you cannot simply say 'This is the way it is, like it or lump it' people will simply vote with their feet. Let's get back to the OP - time will tell. I do hope it works out for both the 50027 group and the MHR, I think it's going to be interesting though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 9, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 9, 2012 Volunteering as a concept for anything is a dying on its feet. For instance at the moment on the MHR we have a chronic shortage of drivers, caused by the shortage of suitable volunteers coming through the ranks. The point I'm trying to (longwindedly) make is that in a mainly volunteer organisation you cannot simply say 'This is the way it is, like it or lump it' people will simply vote with their feet. Although I understand it is a 'moving situation' (and involves some politicking) this piece from Australia about the Zig Zag Railway illustrates exactly the kind of thing Phil is talking about. The ZigZag is spectacular, in a holiday area, and easily accessible from one of Australia's largest conurbations (Sydney) by road and rail and it has had some filming revenue over the years - in other words it should be in an ideal position for financial security and obtaining volunteers. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/travel/news/end-of-the-line-for-the-zig-zag-railway/story-fn32891l-1226385700547 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 838rapid Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Phil, You seem ubber defensive about anything being said about the MHR, I am not trying fo fan previous fires that may or may not have happened during the life of the MHR,far from it. Quote"I really don't mind, indeed welcome opposite points of view to mine, people who know me know I enjoy a robust discussion. What I don't like is uninformed people dragging up 'MHR politics' whenever an issue concerning this railway comes up. It's boring, irrelevant and was done and dusted 10 years ago. We've all moved on, other armchair occupants haven't it would seem" Thanks for taring ,me as a Armchair occupant,I have been involved activly in Railway restoration and operation for the last 26 years Helping and financially contributing towards the restoration of a Merchant Navy,a Spam can,a STD 4 ,Modified Hall et all,raised a shovel in anger on the P.Way helping to lay track,also did a stint as a Catering manager when the railway was in Dire Straits due to the unexpected resignation of the previous incumbent with no notice. To be called a Armchair occupant is actually quite amusing. So I thank you for this. Through out this thread you have made mutterings about Various locos of the internal cumbustion sort. Quote".I think that 45132 is hidden amongst the assorted stuff at Alresford, I haven't seen it for a while,Fair enough I couldnt tell you where things were at the Railway I volunteer at. We don't really do a lot with diesels, apart from the gaffer's taxi and ecs moves etc. - we are supposed to be depicting a BR(S) line in the late 50s / early 60s, not an NSE line in the 80s." 27007 (D5353) AFAIK has been quietly rotting away at various points around the railway for years. I found out today when I was up there that that 37 thing is coming back after a bogie swap as well. I do wonder just what point you are trying to raise.. Do you like modern traction?? I guess no,me myself take it or leave it,no fussed either way. You then go on to raise a point which in itself you answer in your own words. Quote " management thinks it's a good idea, doesn't consult the wider volunteer base who mostly are there to work on steam locos. The thing arrives, the group quite properly are under the illusion that their machine is wanted on the railway, volunteers on the railway don't want to have a lot to do with it, the group feels isolated etc., etc. Quote"One of the reasons why I think it is a strange move is that from September the Mid Hants will have 6 steam locos and 3 diesel locos available for service. Unless these things are going to be farmed out all over the place or management have some radical plan which they are keeping a secret from the people who will have to implement them it's difficult to see where they are all going to get work you then go onto say Quote" Management can make whatever decisions they want, but the difference here is that a volunteer force have to implement these decisions. By definition you volunteer to do something that by and large you enjoy. I, and the large majority of volunteers on the MHR, enjoy working with steam locos. If the railway were to go in a direction which we found that we didn't enjoy we would stop volunteering on the railway" Hence my point of needing to raise your feelings at your Railways AGM. You vote them in by majority,therefore by the same right you can vote them out. Quote "The point I'm trying to (longwindedly) make is that in a mainly volunteer organisation you cannot simply say 'This is the way it is, like it or lump it' people will simply vote with their feet." The AGM is the time to show this too,or even go for a EGM,see what your Company rules dictate for one to be called.. If feelings are that strong,there are options There seems to be a slight glow when you Quote" I do hope it works out for both the 50027 group and the MHR, I think it's going to be interesting though We are all in preservation for the same reason to preserve and hopefully operate things that are special to us. There is a place for discussion thats true but on here its not really getting the questions at the feet of where they need to be aimed. Good luck to the guys that have preserved 50027,I personally wish them well,as moving home and upping sticks is a stressfull enough time for all of us,let alone having to having to shift a loco too. Let the interesting times begin in a constructive way. (edits to correct the way it read). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted June 16, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 16, 2012 Hi Phil, I have been down at my local line today, the North Norfolk Railway. It got me thinking because they run alternate steam and diesel services. They had 4 round trips by steam today. Given the different catchment areas and visitor numbers I think that compares favourably with your six. Overall they had 10 round trips - more than you, and more than they could achieve with steam. Adding the diesel services gives the paying public the chance to choose to travel sooner or wait for steam. For gricers such as me the diesel services are often a chance to get to the next photo location without wasting a service I want a shot of. For NNR it also means they can provide a service to Kelling Halt on the 1 in 80 bank without asking steam locos to restart on the bank. I just thought this might make you think about how diesels could be accommodated at MHR without harming the steam services. Imagine a family who arrive in Alton just missing a steam service due to the vagueries of South West Trains. If you had a greater frequency with alternate diesels they could choose to wait for steam or catch a diesel to Ropley and look at the sheds, or to Alresford and grab some lunch before having their steam train ride later. Having a diesel service at the end of the day enables a later last departure without affecting disposal of steam engines, but allows families a longer day out. All preserved lines seem to be cutting the number of trains - probably a response to increased costs and decreasing passenger numbers, so why not improve frequencies and choice by adding in a cheaper alternative alternating with steam. Anyhow, I couldn't resist popping to NNR today to see the visiting Deltic and the resident 9F, spending my hard earned cash on the line. Much as I prefer steam and love the 9F, it was the Deltic that prompted my visit today because it was unusual. Food for thought? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted June 16, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 16, 2012 I think I saw '027 on the M1 in Leicestershire last night going South... I guess it's in Hampshire by now. EDIT Sorry I've lost a day or two, it was Wednesday Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Richard_A Posted June 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 17, 2012 i saw it at leicester services on thursday, had a look at and was amazed at the size of it never seen on in the flesh before quite a bit of kit tho Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 i saw it at leicester services on thursday, had a look at and was amazed at the size of it never seen on in the flesh before quite a bit of kit tho Wasn't it interesting that it had to be dragged on the Moors by 80072 because it wasn't a runner then a few days later was running under its own power on the MHR? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted June 17, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 17, 2012 Wish we could have had 80072! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Wasn't it interesting that it (50027) had to be dragged on the Moors by 80072 because it wasn't a runner then a few days later was running under its own power on the MHR? I dont understand the point you are trying to make? Much! Dont forget the NYMR is a steam railway and the diesels are there to be tolerated (and run into the ground, look at the 24 they had) and only used when the steamers are broke. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixteen 12by 10s Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Good to see the move went well, and miraculously, you got the problems fix on route, did you call out the AA, while on the way down the M1?,. PS, a 50 is not the best, that slot is reserved for a 40, but only Just! Gary Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snotty Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 So thats where it was heading to when I overtook it on the A1M last Wednesday.....!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 If it has to be a diesel make mine a 40.....We used to eat, drink & sleep them down here......Not a lot of folk know that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I dont understand the point you are trying to make? Much! Dont forget the NYMR is a steam railway and the diesels are there to be tolerated (and run into the ground, look at the 24 they had) and only used when the steamers are broke. I'm just making an observation that its interesting that it had to be dragged because it was a "non-runner" but arrived at the MHR and ran under its own power. I disagree on your point about the NYMR and diesels, there is one used everyday on the green and red timetables as well as on quite a few trains in the gold. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TomE Posted June 18, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 18, 2012 Wish we could have had 80072! You've got 80150! Admittedly it needs 'some' work.......... Tom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 18, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 18, 2012 Wasn't it interesting that it had to be dragged on the Moors by 80072 because it wasn't a runner then a few days later was running under its own power on the MHR? Therein lies the story no doubt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted June 18, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 18, 2012 You've got 80150! Admittedly it needs 'some' work.......... Tom. I'll be pushing up daisies by the time that thing is running! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bayford Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Well i did my first day at the Mid Hants Last week and i really enjoy and now even more so theres going to be a 50 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I disagree on your point about the NYMR and diesels, there is one used everyday on the green and red timetables as well as on quite a few trains in the gold. Fair enough, I only went once, didnt feel welcome (quite the opposite in fact) and have taken no interest in the railway since but obviously still end up reading articles about all pres sites including the NYMR. Pity really because it seemed a very good railway but the experience was ruined by thr staffs attitude. Anyway its good to hear that Lion is roaring again and look forward to handing over a few sheckles for a trip or 3! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianfolland Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 It's interesting that according to Phil there is a shortage of younger volunteers on the Mid-Hants, as if you go there these days there appear to be quite a few, and a recent article in Steam Railway implied a similar number to the Ffestniog, which seems to have no shortage of younger footplate volunteers. Certainly, as far as the FR/WHR is concerned I got the impression that at 49 I'm deemed to be past it, and not really needed! Perhaps wingeing old'ns on MHR footplates have put off younger potential footplate volunteers? However, this group weren't that old and seemed keen: http://www.flickr.com/photos/69051105@N02/7015122573/in/set-72157627888378939 (part of a slowly expanding set of my Mid-Hants pictures). They just might like 50's too! Anyway diesels have formed a vital part of the post preservation history of the MHR, and kept the line going through some pretty dark days (even Sentinel "General Lord Robertson" did his bit for a while); I look forward to seeing the 50 in the near future (there might be one or two RMWEBers who look back with nostalgia (?!) to the days of hitching a lift from Banbury on the "Preston Parcels" in the early hours of a freezing winters night, crammed in the back cab of the train's 50, the hotplate full on for a bit of heat, and the windows wide open to avoid getting gassed by the exhaust fumes that always seemed to fill the rear cab of a 50) Ian (a MHR member since March 1977, and at various times station staff, lamp lighter, track worker, carraige painter, loco restorer, never footplate staff though, yet!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted June 18, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 18, 2012 It's interesting that according to Phil there is a shortage of younger volunteers on the Mid-Hants, as if you go there these days there appear to be quite a few Don't put words in my mouth please - this is what I said: caused by the shortage of suitable volunteers coming through the ranks I didn't mention younger volunteers, however it is a fact that when hormones, sex, drugs and rock 'n roll kick in volunteering on a preserved railway doesn't seem quite so attractive and they very often fall by the wayside. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Temeraire Posted June 18, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 18, 2012 Evening all, Just to confirm 'Lion@ arrived safely and is now parked in the Headshunt at Ropley by Bighton Rd Bridge. Follow the link below for more pics of the move South last week. http://50027lion.shutterfly.com/2012 Its great to see Lion back locally and I hope that it will get a decent run out soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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