Dock Green

[Guest Isambarduk]

"I actually don't know if the Fowler self-contained buffers can be easily disassembled, now I think about it.... hmm."
 
Yes, they can :-)  Just give each buffer stock a gentle twist and a pull.  See: www.davidlosmith.co.uk/GWR_Fowler.htm or www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/78328-ixion-0-gauge-fowler-diesel-loco/?p=1391937

 

David

[chaz]

Thanks for

 

"I actually don't know if the Fowler self-contained buffers can be easily disassembled, now I think about it.... hmm."
 
Yes, they can :-)  Just give each buffer stock a gentle twist and a pull.  See: www.davidlosmith.co.uk/GWR_Fowler.htm or www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/78328-ixion-0-gauge-fowler-diesel-loco/?p=1391937

 

David

 

Thanks for the links David. Will have a longer look later. But buying a Fowler just to nick the buffers for my saddle tank sounds a tad expensive....

[chaz]

Talk nicely to Mr Klein, he may have some squirreled away.

 

SSSSSSSHHHHHHHH...........

Edited August 22, 2014 by chaz

[flexible_coupling]

"I actually don't know if the Fowler self-contained buffers can be easily disassembled, now I think about it.... hmm."

 

Yes, they can :-)  Just give each buffer stock a gentle twist and a pull.  See: www.davidlosmith.co.uk/GWR_Fowler.htm or www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/78328-ixion-0-gauge-fowler-diesel-loco/?p=1391937

 

David

 

Not to derail the thread too far, but thanks for that - I'd missed your mod efforts on this loco, I shall apply a few of your ideas to my own Fowler I believe!

[Guest Isambarduk]

"Not to derail the thread too far"

Nor me but just for completeness (although it doesn't help Chaz because I used a lathe): this is how I arranged for larger buffers for my Hudswell Clarke from the same stable:

www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/69095-idea-conversion-of-ixion-hudswell-clarke/?p=1031249

David

Edited August 23, 2014 by Isambarduk

[chaz]

I suppose I could turn up some buffers on my ancient Unimat, but it would take a while as it will only make fairly light cuts. I have plenty ofr other things to do though and would prefer to buy rather than make.

Any chance you could post the dimensions of the buffers you made? - I know you have stated the diameter of the heads but could you also give details of the rams, diameters and lengths. It may be possible to solder up some rams using different sizes of tubing.

 

Chaz

[81A Oldoak]

Chaz,

I have just done a quick and dirty buffer replacement on one of Hudswell Clarkes. You can read about it here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/80426-cwm-bach-a-south-wales-branch-line/page-19&do=findComment&comment=1561778

 

Chris

[chaz]

Chaz,

I have just done a quick and dirty buffer replacement on one of Hudswell Clarkes. You can read about it here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/80426-cwm-bach-a-south-wales-branch-line/page-19&do=findComment&comment=1561778

 

Chris

 

Thanks for the link Chris, I like the look of your buffer conversion which I think improves the look of the model. "I know it is crude and probably offensive to engineers" - I have no objection to your "dirty" method - I have always taken the view that any technique that works can't be wrong. The only reservation I have is the use of pliers to remove the buffers - could be damaging.

 

Chaz

Edited August 23, 2014 by chaz

[Guest Isambarduk]

"I suppose I could turn up some buffers on my ancient Unimat ..."
 
That's what I used, Chaz.
 
"Any chance you could post the dimensions of the buffers you made?"
 
Here you go; these for the HC:



Whilst we are at it, Simon sent me a pm earlier asking for a sketch of the flanges for the Ixion Fowler 0-4-0DM; here it is:



"The only reservation I have is the use of pliers to remove the buffers - could be damaging."

Just so. I used my fingers.

David

Edited August 23, 2014 by Isambarduk

[Simond]

Thanks for the link Chris, I like the look of your buffer conversion which I think improves the look of the model. "I know it is crude and probably offensive to engineers" - I have no objection to your "dirty" method - I have always taken the view that any technique that works can't be wrong. The only reservation I have is the use of pliers to remove the buffers - could be damaging.

 

Chaz

Chaz

 

Very little is sufficiently crude to be offensive to engineers - Shakespeare had us sussed out years ago - "rude mechanicals"

 

Best

Simon (CEng, MIMechE)

[chaz]

"I suppose I could turn up some buffers on my ancient Unimat ..."

 

That's what I used, Chaz.

 

"Any chance you could post the dimensions of the buffers you made?"

 

Here you go; these for the HC:

 

HC-Buffers.jpg

 

Whilst we are at it, Simon sent me a pm earlier asking for a sketch of the flanges for the Ixion Fowler 0-4-0DM; here it is:

 

FowlerFlanges.jpg

 

"The only reservation I have is the use of pliers to remove the buffers - could be damaging."

 

Just so. I used my fingers.

 

David

 

Thanks very much for the dimensoned sketch. Just the job!    .....and fingers it is.....

Edited August 24, 2014 by chaz

[chaz]

The Peckett DCC keep-alive installation is not working satisfactorily.

 

Motor is jerky when setting off or stopping.

Keep-alive keeps the sound going for about 4 seconds when lifted off the track if the loco is stationary - as it should as I have set the CV for this - it also does this if the STOP button on my Lenz LH100 is pressed.

If the loco is moving it only continues to move for a fraction of a second.

When the loco comes to a stand it often leaps forward for a moment.

 

I am at present seeking help on ESU's forum. I will post details as the saga progresses.

 

Chaz

Edited August 24, 2014 by chaz

[Barnaby]

Chaz my recent dcc & Sound upgrade for my Fowler some times does that too but it seems better if I power up and leave everything standing for a min or so then all seems to run better.  I wonder if it is a power grabbing situation where by the KA capacitor needs to get charged up.  I've not really done any researching on the matter to see if my wondering has any validity.

 

Regards.

[chaz]

Chaz my recent dcc & Sound upgrade for my Fowler some times does that too but it seems better if I power up and leave everything standing for a min or so then all seems to run better.  I wonder if it is a power grabbing situation where by the KA capacitor needs to get charged up.  I've not really done any researching on the matter to see if my wondering has any validity.

 

Regards.

 

Thanks for that, Barnaby. I will try giving it a couple of minutes. However the fact that the loco sound will carry on for the 4 seconds configured by the CV adjustment suggests that the capacitor is charging fully - still you may well be right - aspects of DCC can be quite a dark art, can't they?

[chaz]

Two snaps to illustrate two things...

 

 

.....one is just what a small loco the Hudswell Clarke is. The Peckett 0-4-0ST is not a big machine but it looks big alongside Ixion's 0-6-0ST.

 

 

The other point is how often weathering seems to disappear in front of a camera lens. Weird....

 

Chaz

[81A Oldoak]

Two snaps to illustrate two things...

 

 

.....one is just what a small loco the Hudswell Clarke is. The Peckett 0-4-0ST is not a big machine but it looks big alongside Ixion's 0-6-0ST.

 

 

The other point is how often weathering seems to disappear in front of a camera lens. Weird....

 

Chaz

The Hudswell Clarkes do look small up against other locomotives, even ones we usually consider small. I remember when the first EP arrived and I stood it against my Peckett wondering if we had got the scale wrong. But no, they were small engines as this photo of Easingwold No2 shows    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=hudswell+clarke+easingwold+number+2&espv=2&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=aUb6U_OGAYyU0QWagYFQ&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1574&bih=992#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=Abh065cXyOgrrM%253A%3BeuE-s85pXsLV-M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252F4.bp.blogspot.com%252F-G4YkEkHeTLE%252FU34t9cOa15I%252FAAAAAAAAA4o%252FlxuTUb095rM%252Fs1600%252FEasingwold%252BRailway%252BCompany%252BNo.%252B2%252B%2540%252BAlne%252BStation%252Bcirca%252BAugust%252B1933.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Farthursbritain.blogspot.com%252F%3B1600%3B1238

[Simond]

I'd be with Barnaby here - it does need a few minutes to charge up - but I managed to paint the wheel rims of my Fowler by setting it going at speed step 7 and holding it by the body.... I never checked how long the sound lasts, but the light stays on a while. Certainly, it is very happy once charged, but a bit jumpy at first.

 

By way of comparison, I don't have stay-alives on my other locos yet, but I'm certainly going to.

 

I did try with a 2200uF with my 28xx which is fitted with an ESU chip, but it was entirely insufficient. I'm looking at super caps: RS Stock No.377-372 Panasonic 0.22F 5.5V - 3 in series would give 0.073F which would be about 33 times better. Might be advisable to have four in series, but this drops the capacitance by a third. Could parallel up, at twice the price, but at 77p each, we aren't breaking the bank. Needs a diode and resistor for ESU, but I'm not sure if these aren't already built in on the Zimo chips.

 

Will report further in due course.

Simon

[flexible_coupling]

Thanks for that, Barnaby. I will try giving it a couple of minutes. However the fact that the loco sound will carry on for the 4 seconds configured by the CV adjustment suggests that the capacitor is charging fully - still you may well be right - aspects of DCC can be quite a dark art, can't they?

 

I suspect the power draw on the sound amplifier component is a fraction of that of a motor under power... I could be wrong as I have little experience with "big" motors - but the scaled time-frame (fraction of a second of motor vs. 4 seconds of sound) might actually accurately reflect a similar draw of power... and point to inadequately charged caps or an inadequate capacity.

[chaz]

I'd be with Barnaby here - it does need a few minutes to charge up - but I managed to paint the wheel rims of my Fowler by setting it going at speed step 7 and holding it by the body.... I never checked how long the sound lasts, but the light stays on a while. Certainly, it is very happy once charged, but a bit jumpy at first.

 

By way of comparison, I don't have stay-alives on my other locos yet, but I'm certainly going to.

 

I did try with a 2200uF with my 28xx which is fitted with an ESU chip, but it was entirely insufficient. I'm looking at super caps: RS Stock No.377-372 Panasonic 0.22F 5.5V - 3 in series would give 0.073F which would be about 33 times better. Might be advisable to have four in series, but this drops the capacitance by a third. Could parallel up, at twice the price, but at 77p each, we aren't breaking the bank. Needs a diode and resistor for ESU, but I'm not sure if these aren't already built in on the Zimo chips.

 

Will report further in due course.

Simon

 

Point taken. Does this mean that everytime the loco is rerailed a delay is necessary? Dock Green uses cassettes which are frequently disconnected - a two minute delay will be a nuisance.

[chaz]

The Hudswell Clarkes do look small up against other locomotives, even ones we usually consider small. I remember when the first EP arrived and I stood it against my Peckett wondering if we had got the scale wrong. But no, they were small engines....

 

Yes indeed. Couple it up to an LNER van and it really looks small! Could this be why you won't see "Christine" pulling more than four wagons up the grade on the line from the industrial estate in Dock Green yard?

 

In fact the model is very powerful and maybe will pull far more than the prototype would?

 

Is there a surviving Hudswell Clarke like the Ixion one?

 

Chaz

[Siberian Snooper]

Point taken. Does this mean that everytime the loco is rerailed a delay is necessary? Dock Green uses cassettes which are frequently disconnected - a two minute delay will be a nuisance.

 

If that proves to be the case, could you connect the cassettes to a separate power supply to keep the stay alive charged.

[chaz]

If that proves to be the case, could you connect the cassettes to a separate power supply to keep the stay alive charged.

 

I suppose it would be possible but it would be a real nuisance. I think I will wait and see how we do at Telford - if I get to the point where I feel confident enough to take the Peckett. If there is any doubt about its reliability then the Ixion Hudswell Clarke will work the industrial estate lines.

 

Chaz

[Simond]

Chaz

 

I rather think this might be a pain in your cassette application, however, less so if you have turned all the sound and lights off before unplugging the cassette. 

 

Wander leads would be one approach, alternative "docking stations" on the cassette shelf might be another.  More radically, RS (and presumable Farnell & others) are now showing simply huge capacitances available now (eg 58F @ 16V but it's the size of a 6w coach!) and by choosing suitable values, it might be possible to gain really long periods of "staying alive", obviously dependent on space in the loco etc.  Certainly this is not trivial, as at a minimum you need 3x5.5V caps in series, and probably 4 to be on the safe side.  Unfortunately, there is no obvious simple solution to put a massive cap on the cassette itself.

 

It strikes me that if future locos are all as good as the EDM install in my Fowler, it might give us all the opportunity to use dead frog points on future builds as frog switching will be pretty much superfluous, though I appreciate this will be of little comfort to those whose layouts are already on the exhibition circuit...

 

edit - alternative approach - make the capacitance as small as you can get away with - this will, of course, minimise the charge-up time.

 

best

Simon

Edited August 25, 2014 by Simond

[chaz]

Chaz

 

I rather think this might be a pain in your cassette application, however, less so if you have turned all the sound and lights off before unplugging the cassette. 

 

Wander leads would be one approach, alternative "docking stations" on the cassette shelf might be another.  More radically, RS (and presumable Farnell & others) are now showing simply huge capacitances available now (eg 58F @ 16V but it's the size of a 6w coach!) and by choosing suitable values, it might be possible to gain really long periods of "staying alive", obviously dependent on space in the loco etc.  Certainly this is not trivial, as at a minimum you need 3x5.5V caps in series, and probably 4 to be on the safe side.  Unfortunately, there is no obvious simple solution to put a massive cap on the cassette itself.

 

It strikes me that if future locos are all as good as the EDM install in my Fowler, it might give us all the opportunity to use dead frog points on future builds as frog switching will be pretty much superfluous, though I appreciate this will be of little comfort to those whose layouts are already on the exhibition circuit...

 

edit - alternative approach - make the capacitance as small as you can get away with - this will, of course, minimise the charge-up time.

 

best

Simon

 

Thanks Simon. I have not chosen the size of the capacitor - it's part of ESU's PowerPack (which is what they call their keep-alive). There certainly isn't enough room in the Peckett for more than about 3300uf - that's what I tried when I was fooling about wiring in a home-brewed keep-alive to the original LokSound V3.5. The power pack includes some electronics, not just a resistor and diode.

 

I am wondering if some of the poor running can be cured by "tuning" the decoder to the motor. Unfortunately I have no idea how to do this.

 

Chaz

[Simond]

the caps used in the Fowler appear to be these;  5 in series as they are only 2.7V

 

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/electric-double-layer-capacitors/7637750/

 

this gives a capacitance of 0.2F.

 

best

Simon