Dock Green

[chaz]

Chaz,

Just found this thread.

 

What a wonderful standard of modelling. So many clever ideas too.

 

Very well done.

 

Well, thanks Peter. Comments like yours are most encouraging.

 

I note that you live in Wimborne, Dock Green makes its debut there, at the Allendale Community Centre, on October 21st by which time I hope to get quite a lot more done! It's inevitable that some stuff will miss that deadline so it will go as a work in progress. Will I see you there?

 

Chaz

[Donw]

Your work on the setts is very impressive. I wonder if applying knoting to the card packing to seal it would be the best answer. I like all the bridges and the retaining walls. I dont know if these are fixed in place yet but perhpas it might be easier to paint and ballast the trackwork first.

Don

[chaz]

Your work on the setts is very impressive. I wonder if applying knoting to the card packing to seal it would be the best answer. I like all the bridges and the retaining walls. I dont know if these are fixed in place yet but perhpas it might be easier to paint and ballast the trackwork first.

Don

 

Quite so, Don. In fact the bridges and retaining walls will never be be permanently fixed. By leaving the baseboards tops flat, or nearly so, all four of them can be stacked, three on their sides close together and parallel, and one flat on the top. The resultant block is 4 feet wide by about 2 feet deep and is about 2 foot 6 inches high. So I can stack them away between shows in the corner of a room. The scenic bits and pieces, the warehouse, bridges, walls etc will all be in boxes under my home layout in the roof. Some of them are fastened with screws (the retaining walls are built on plywood backing boards that extend down and are screwed to the vertical surface of the baseboard back. Other features like the warehouse locate on dowel pegs projecting from the top surface.

 

As to sealing the card this might not be the best move. I think the top surface needs to be porous so that the PVA can bond to it and hold the DAS. I think some small CSK woodscrews through the card, spaced out at regular intervals with one in each corner at ends or joins will prevent the card from curling. I can't be sure but I think it was only when I applied lots of water as a wash for the acrylic paint that distortion set in. In any case it seems to have settled down again - probably as it dried out.

 

I have a list of jobs that must be done before the first show at the end of October and some that I would very much like to do, but which could wait. Reluctantly I have to put the setts on the latter list, it just depends on how the other jobs go.

 

Chaz

[DLT]

What has happened is that the card has absorbed moisture from the Das and expanded (or contracted ) on one side only. When coating card with anything, its best to do it on both sides to counteract the curling.

If you cant do both sides, can you do away with the card completely, and simply fill in the whole depth of the track?

This would probably use a lot of Das (never used it myself, so I dont know what quantities it comes in)

Using something like this http://www.diy.com/nav/decor/tiles/adhesives-sealants/combined_adhesives___grouts/B-and-Q-Wall-Tile-Adhesive-and-Grout-White-0-92L-Up-to-0-8m-9277200

that comes in a large quantity can be better if you've got large areas to do. Or you may have some left over from the bathroom... this is the stuff I've used for all my stonework.

 

Hope this helps,

All the best, Dave

[chaz]

What has happened is that the card has absorbed moisture from the Das and expanded (or contracted ) on one side only. When coating card with anything, its best to do it on both sides to counteract the curling.

If you cant do both sides, can you do away with the card completely, and simply fill in the whole depth of the track?

This would probably use a lot of Das (never used it myself, so I dont know what quantities it comes in)

Using something like this http://www.diy.com/n...to-0-8m-9277200

that comes in a large quantity can be better if you've got large areas to do. Or you may have some left over from the bathroom... this is the stuff I've used for all my stonework.

 

Hope this helps,

All the best, Dave

 

Yes, it does help Dave. I suppose the underside of the card could be coated in PVA before fixing it down, then the top surface could get similar treatment BUT the DAS would only be applied to the top - would this matter?

 

I anticipate that one problem that using DAS as for the whole job and leaving out the card might be weight. The baseboards were initially fairly light but as work progresses they have slowly got heavier, and we are not getting younger!

 

Chaz

[chaz]

Crude but effective…

 

I decided early on that I would install magnetic uncouplers on Dock Green to work the Dingham couplings fitted to all the stock. I considered using electro-magnets but I didn’t want the added complexity of the wiring and switches. I bought some very powerful small round magnets which work the couplings really well.

 

 

Snap above shows the parts for the business end of an uncoupler mechanism. From the left…

The magnet

The holder - a piece of brass tube slit along its length so that it will open up to grip the magnet, also cut away and with a short length of 8BA bolt soldered in

The push wire with one end formed into an eye to fit round the bolt

Strap and two short screws to secure the wire to the lever

 

 

Underside of one of the baseboards showing an uncoupler mechanism in place. On the left the operator’s end projects through a slot in the inner skin of the side, but not the outer. To raise the magnet the lever is pushed down with a finger. On the right the magnet, in its holder, slides up and down in a brass tube set between the sleepers. The pivot support includes two woodscrews that can be rotated from underneath to set the limits of the movement (if the magnet moves too far, either up or down, it pops out of the support tube and jams). I found that if these magnets are raised so that their tops are level with the top of the sleepers they will uncouple a pair of Dingham couplings very reliably. Drop them about 10mm and they no longer have any effect.

 

 

This snap shows a different set-up to operate a magnet which is very close to the operators side of the layout, where there isn’t enough room to fit the pivot in the usual position. The operator lifts the lever end to raise the magnet.

Edited August 21, 2012 by chaz

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Well, thanks Peter. Comments like yours are most encouraging.

 

I note that you live in Wimborne, Dock Green makes its debut there, at the Allendale Community Centre, on October 21st by which time I hope to get quite a lot more done! It's inevitable that some stuff will miss that deadline so it will go as a work in progress. Will I see you there?

 

Chaz

 

I'll put it in my diary.

[chaz]

Some might appreciate a couple of photos of the magnet mechanisms in action with Dingham couplings.

 

The first snap shows a wagon (an ex-GWR match truck) parked over an uncoupling magnet, which is down. The loop on the Dingham coupling is in the normal position for coupling.

 

 

In this second photo the magnet has been raised by pressing down gently on the end of the lever. The magnet attracts the iron wire on the coupling and the loop is lifted.

 

 

Usually I wouldn't try to stop in the right place over the magnet, propelling a train and raising the magnet just before the coupling passes over is very reliable providing the running speed is sensible. If a rake of wagons is propelled across a raised magnet every pair will uncouple. The latch tab on the other end of wagons prevents re-coupling so wagons can be propelled into position and left. If couplings are pulled across a raised magnet the overhang on the coupling hook is sufficient to prevent uncoupling.

 

I like Dingham couplings. Providing care is taken to set the height correctly when they are installed they are very reliable. They are not too obvious (Kadees on British goods stock just look wrong IMHO) and will allow coupling to 3 links (especially useful if you are changing over and are part-way through a large collection of rolling stock).

 

Yet again photographs are quite merciless – I will have to look again at the paint on those chairs and sleepers…..

 

Chaz

Edited August 22, 2012 by chaz

[chaz]

On my home layout all the point blades are thrown by Tortoise motors. Although these are good reliable motors they have become rather expensive and, as there are nine required on Dock Green, I decided to use servos instead. These are a cheaper alternative but do require some work to adapt them to their point motor role.

 

The photo below shows a servo (a TowerPro SG90) fitted to a piece of aluminium angle with 10BA nuts and bolts. I mount a piece of steel wire on the straight nylon crank provided with the servo. The end of the wire is bent at a right angle and slipped into the hole in the end on the crank and it’s secured with a couple of steel split pins. I cut the wire to length after it has been trial-fitted to the point – it needs to protrude very slightly above the tie bar.

 

 

The second photo shows two servos fixed under the baseboard. Above them is a MERG Servo4G control board.

 

 

One disadvantage of using servos is that you can’t just connect them to switches as they are designed to be hooked up to radio control receivers, which are programmed to drive them with electronic pulses. If you are a member of MERG they will sell you a kit to make a control board – this will control up to four servos independently. The ribbon cable leads of the servos plug directly onto the PCB. The MERG board can be programmed via a laptop to set the speed of movement and limit of travel of the servos using software which is a free download for members from the MERG website. A simple on/off switch for each servo is also connected to the board and changing the switch setting causes the relevant servo to throw.

 

A couple of useful links….

 

http://www.merg.org.uk/

 

http://www.servoshop.co.uk/index.php?pid=SG90G&area=Servo

 

Chaz

[chaz]

I spent a good part of yesterday freeing off the point blades and tie-bars of the Peco points so that the servos, whose travel had been adjusted to be spot on, could move them properly again. Several of them wouldn't make it to the stock rail and at least two were very "notchy".

 

My advice arising from this experience...

• Never, ever paint the slide chairs
  
• if you must paint the sides of the point blades use an airbrush and keep the paint thin and even
  
• never, ever glue ballast around or underneath the tie bar (keep ballast away from between those two sleepers)
  
• When you put ballast under the pivotted switch rails keep it very shallow
  

I had to rectify all these faults before the points would work as well as they did when I fitted the servos.

 

Yes, I did know all this, and NO I wouldn't have made these basic errors......(DONT ASK!)

Edited August 25, 2012 by chaz

[chaz]

Earlier in the thread I posted some pictures of the cassettes for Dock Green. I intend the cassettes to be used to transport the stock safely. To this end I have added some foam to make the wagons safe during transport.

The photo below shows a cassette with four vans loaded. In the foreground are two strips of foam and two of corrugated cardboard, which I will insert as packing.

 

 

First step is to slide in a length of foam between the wagons and the side wall of the cassette. There is enough room to do this without rubbing the side of the wagons, avoiding possible damage to paint or details.

 

 

Close up from above showing the gap on both sides.

 

 

Next a strip of corrugated card is slid between the foam and the side. This eliminates the gap, compressing the foam slightly and holding the wagons in place.

 

 

Close up showing the wagons snugly held and, I hope, safe from damage during the journey from home to the show, and back.

 

 

The foam is packaging grade, 12.7mm (half an inch) thick, from....

 

http://www.efoam.co.uk/

 

One refinement will be to glue some string to the corrugated cardboard to make it easier to pull out. It's quite snug in there!

 

Chaz

Edited August 25, 2012 by chaz

[BrushType4]

Chaz, that looks like a nice solution. How easy is it to split and couple up stock in the cassettes?

[chaz]

Chaz, that looks like a nice solution. How easy is it to split and couple up stock in the cassettes?

It's a doddle! All the stock is fitted with Dingham automatics so coupling is (usually) just a matter of pushing the stock together. Uncoupling? I use a long hook to lift the loop. Now, if I was using 3 links, or worse still screw couplings.....

 

In fact I don't anticipate doing much splitting up and recoupling with the cassettes. Each train will be seven and a brake van, which fits on two cassettes (four wagons in each). The locos have their own cassettes. Shunting and re-arranging will take place "on the stage", that is in the yard. Down trains can have a modicum of re-arranging by selecting different combinations of two cassettes. Most of the stock will be opens and vans (just like the real thing) so this subterfuge shouldn't be too obvious to the watching throng Of course I will need to move the brake vans from one end of a cassette to the other when an up train becomes a down. I have made a special cassette for this which will only be used on the stock table - I want to avoid too much handling of the stock.

 

Chaz

Edited August 26, 2012 by chaz

[chaz]

Spent the afternoon on some very boring but necessary stuff for Dock Green. I am going to "borrow" the Lenz DCC system off my home layout - the original plan was to build a new system using MERG kits but I just don't have the time to do this before the October show. So I have made a wooden box like a drawer for the Lenz. This will have a row of sockets on the front so that it can be quickly connected to the wiring on either layout. I am putting a shelf underneath DG, within the structure of one of the baseboards. I will make the connecting leads long enough so that they can be plugged in and then the wooden box slid onto the shelf. Once it is in place nothing will show.

 

Chaz

[Warspite]

Chaz

 

I've only just caught up with this thread. Very impressed with what you are doing here and some superb engineering solutions. Great inspiration as well.

 

Stephen

[chaz]

Chaz

 

I've only just caught up with this thread. Very impressed with what you are doing here and some superb engineering solutions. Great inspiration as well.

 

Stephen

 

Thanks for the comments, Stephen much appreciated. I will post on further progress later.

 

Chaz

 

EDIT - I've just used your link to have a look at your minimum space layout. Terrific stuff. You've done what I've not got round to and got some very convincing ground effects. I like your weathered stock, particularly that 16 tonner. When Dock Green is a better backdrop I will post some pictures of some of my rolling stock.

I regret I have no use for a Lionheart Pannier as my layout is very firmly Eastern Region......

Edited August 27, 2012 by chaz

[Warspite]

Thanks for the comments, Stephen much appreciated. I will post on further progress later.

 

Chaz

 

EDIT - I've just used your link to have a look at your minimum space layout. Terrific stuff. You've done what I've not got round to and got some very convincing ground effects. I like your weathered stock, particularly that 16 tonner. When Dock Green is a better backdrop I will post some pictures of some of my rolling stock.

I regret I have no use for a Lionheart Pannier as my layout is very firmly Eastern Region......

 

Chaz

 

Thanks for the nice comments. I don't have anything like your engineering or model-making skills but do enjoy creating landscapes based purely on observation of the real thing - roads, tracks, verges etc. I don't blame you for not getting to that stage of the layout yet. I took the approach of landscaping each section as I moved along the layout but I still haven't put in all the detail. Yours is a much more ambitious project anyway.

 

Again, weathering rolling stock is based on observation, mainly from colour photographs of the real thing. I do find 7mm provides greater opportunity to develop realistic weathering effects such as rust and wear although others seem able to produce amazing results in smaller scales. As I have said before on here, it is the weathering masters, Martyn Welch to name one, who provide great inspiration and the techniques.

 

I'm sure a WR pannier could make an occasional foray into east London. Transfer goods from Acton yard? You know you want to .......

 

Stephen

[chaz]

Chaz

 

Thanks for the nice comments......... I took the approach of landscaping each section as I moved along the layout but I still haven't put in all the detail. Yours is a much more ambitious project anyway.

 

Yes indeed Stephen. I was admiring the very convincing look of what you had done and regretting how much work remains before Dock Green gets anywhere near the same standard..

 

 

Again, weathering rolling stock is based on observation, mainly from colour photographs of the real thing. I do find 7mm provides greater opportunity to develop realistic weathering effects such as rust and wear although others seem able to produce amazing results in smaller scales. As I have said before on here, it is the weathering masters, Martyn Welch to name one, who provide great inspiration and the techniques.

 

Weathering, yes it's essential if a railway is to look convincing. So much so that if I'm at a show I find it hard to get interested in a layout which doesn't have it. But what's possibly even worse is the mistaken belief that all you need do is spray the bottom half of all rolling stock a shade of pooh. Not good. The detail in the paint on your 16 tonner is exemplary!

 

 

I'm sure a WR pannier could make an occasional foray into east London. Transfer goods from Acton yard? You know you want to .......

 

Erm, ahhh. Yes. That may be true but..... my leanings towards Swindon go no further than quite a few goods wagons (the Coopercraft kits do make up nicely, don't they?).

GWR? I thought it stood for Gresley was right!

 

Chaz

[chaz]

Another tedious (and at times frustrating) day, spent rewiring the DCC from my fixed home layout so that it can be shared with Dock Green on show days. Also spent the evening programming the servos. This proved a problem. Half way through the evening several of the servos stopped working, I suspected a wiring fault but it all seemed sound when I checked. I think I may have made a mistake with the MERG programming software but I was too tired to think it through. HO Hum.

 

I will post again, with some more interesting stuff when I get back to scenery - the canal's next. If I have many more days like yesterday I might have to throw myself in it!

 

Chaz

[chaz]

Yesterday I sat down with the two baseboards of Dock Green that have pointwork on them, determined to find and eliminate the fault (wiring? programming? Gremlins?). In fact a quick test showed that all the points were working perfectly. Result? Not really.....you can't trace a fault that isn't showing so I'm left in limbo. If the fault is still there the odds are it will not manifest itself again until half way through the first show.....and if it was a one-off I won't ever know what was happening. My best guess at the moment is that the multi-way cable that joins the two boards was not firmly home but it is only a guess.

[chaz]

Boring but necessary......

 

I decided to "share" my Lenz DCC system between my home layout and Dock Green. To make it a simple job to move it from one to the other I put the command centre and booster in a box with sockets on the front. A set of cables with matching plugs on each layout make it simple to connect it up to either. I spent today completing the installation, although I haven't had time yet to test it.

 

 

The photo above shows the box, with the LZ100 and LV200 installed and wired to the sockets. The woodwork is very crude, with that chisel work, which I did to thin down the front plate to suit the fittings, reminding me somewhat of a dug-out canoe - but it is completely out of sight when installed. In front of the box is one set of plugs. There is no possibility of fitting the plugs into the wrong sockets.

 

 

Above - The box, installed on its shelf within one of Dock Green's baseboards. This view from underneath shows that it's tucked away and can't be seen unless you crouch down to look at the baseboard structure.

 

 

I made the wiring up into cables and made these long enough to make it possible to fit or remove the plugs with the box held below its shelf. Sliding it into place takes most of the slack out of the cables. Cable grips prevent any strain on the solder joints at the tag strip.

 

Chaz

Edited September 1, 2012 by chaz

[chaz]

Having spent the last couple of days on wiring and "bodge" woodwork I spent a little time this morning on stuff that will actually show....

 

On some of the bridges and buildings on Dock Green I wanted soldier courses in the brickwork with a bevelled edge to the top. I bought some mounting boards offcuts (a large bag of some fairly large pieces for not very much cash) from a local picture framers. As most of these pieces were the centres from cut picture mounts they had bevelled edges. I found that I could cut strips from the four sides which would then have a bevel on one edge. I paint that edge a buff colour - the same shade as the mortar courses. After the embossed brick plastic sheet is added the top edge can have brick colour (Humbrol #70) touched in with a fine brush. This photo is me doing that last step on one of the bridges this morning before heading off to the show at Andover.

 

 

This is the sort of small detail that might well go unremarked but is all too obvious if it's not done.

 

Incidentally, I recently bought a couple of nylon fine-point brushes not expecting them to last very long - but they are brilliant - they certainly are keeping their points very well. They also seem to stand up to abuse, such as dry brushing, much better than other types have used.

 

Chaz

Edited September 2, 2012 by chaz

[chaz]

I have been using SE Finecast vacuum formed plastic sheet for the brickwork on Dock Green and over the weekend I had to get two more sheets ready to finish off the brickwork on bridge #1. To prepare this I give the whole sheet a coat of buff coloured acrylic making sure it is worked into the mortar courses. When this is dry, I paint the bricks with Humbrol #70 - red brick. This is put on by diagonal dry brushing, as SEF suggest. however every now and then I have a little too much paint on the brush and it runs down into the mortar courses, spoiling the effect.

 

 

this is no cause for panic - it usually happens in about half a dozen places on a full sheet. The dry brushing is tedious on a full sheet of 7mm brick, 365 x 270mm. I found an easy rescue method is to wait until the red brick is dry and then splosh on some further buff acrylic, again working it into the mortar courses.

 

 

Before the acrylic has a chance to dry the surface is wiped with a piece of wet kitchen roll. It is possible to overdo the wiping but you soon get the hang of cleaning the buff off the brick but leaving the "repair" in the grooves.

 

 

Of course if you don't like the dry-brushing technique it is possible to reverse the process. Start by painting the whole sheet brick red and then use the splosh-on wipe-off technique to paint the mortar courses.

 

Chaz

Edited September 4, 2012 by chaz

[chaz]

I have been busy finishing off lots of little bits on the first two baseboards and my friend Peter has been busy with track ballast. We have finally got a scene which will photograph reasonably well. All the bridges, walls and buildings in these pictures still need a hefty dose of North London grime – but I’m going to hold off on the weathering until all four baseboards can be done together – to avoid any obvious variations or joins.

 

 

The photo above was shot with a compact camera placed directly on the track. I think that this gives a most convincing viewpoint, as if the viewer is standing in the scene. The track with the wagon standing on it is the headshunt. Looking through the arch you can see the pine pillar which supports the overhanging corner of the warehouse, which is cut away to give the operators access to the cassette area. In front of the headshunt is the gradient which supposedly runs down to the industrial sidings (in reality to cassettes). The main line cassettes will be behind the retaining wall on the right.

 

 

A view from further back, with the girders of the railway overbridge framing the picture. The track that runs through the (very narrow) arch on the left goes to the warehouse platform. You can just glimpse the canopy through the arch. Peter's efforts with ballasting are proceeding well - we were going to use ash or cinders ballast for the yard but the result looked too much like black porridge for our liking so we've gone for fine granite from Modeller's Mate. We know it's wrong for this type of yard but think it looks more convincing.

 

 

For this third view we are looking down from above the railway bridge. I placed a van in the arch leading to the warehouse platform and you can see just how tight the clearance is. There are several places on Dock Green where we have been forced into some drastic compromises by the size of the baseboards. I am not happy with the wooden stop block at the end of the spur on which the all-steel open is standing: It looks too flimsy and insubstantial. I will add more timberwork to it to make it look more robust.

Later on we will add some hand levers for the points – in a yard like this there would be no signal cabin and probably not even a ground frame, so no rodding either.

 

I will post other views as the two remaining baseboards reach a similar standard.

 

Chaz

[Warspite]

Chaz

 

This is coming along nicely. Those low level shots look extremely convincing and give the layout a very realistic feel.

 

Looking forward to the next stages.

 

Stephen