Ashton Meadows Bristol to Wapping Wharf: Info and pics needed for operations in the 1970s until closure

[pwilson]

Hello everyone,

 

 

I'm currently building a OO layout focussed on civil engineering depot and coal exchange sidings at Ashton Meadows in Bristol. The civil engineering depot was I believe focused on bridge and tunnel maintenance whereas the coal exchange sidings were used for trip workings up to the coal distribution depot at Wapping Wharf.

 

I was hoping that you would be able to give descriptions of the operations from the 1970s onwards, or perhaps even have some photos of the line. Also anyone who is a BR (WR) expert, and can advise on typical freight operations in Bristol.

 

I have also been able to find a few pictures of the area but have never been able to find a picture of the actual depot.

 

Many thanks

 

Paul

[Rivercider]

Hello Paul,

 

I took a few pictures of the coal traffic to Wapping Wharf, and have some WTT info.

 

A WTT for 4th Oct 1976 - 1st May 1977 shows

 

8B32 07.20 SX Severn Tunnel Junction - Wapping Wharf coal

7C42 11.20 SX Wapping Wharf - Severn Tunnel Junction coal empties.

 

 

I joined Bristol TOPS in October 1978, the train was by then running to Ashton Meadows,

it ran about the same time each morning from Severn Tunnel Jn 5 days a week, loading up to 20 or 25 hoppers.

One misty morning I took a few pictures, they are poor, taken at 1/30th.

 

37302 is running round the loaded 21t hoppers, the empties are ready for the return trip, 11/2/80

 

The Western Fuel Company Hudswell pilot (ex PBA No. D1171) takes the loaded hoppers to Wapping Wharf, 11/2/80.

 

 

During the winter months, if traffic was heavy a second trip could come over from Severn Tunnel Jn departing about 10.00,

it was a service that was diverted to Hallen Marsh/Filton CCD/Kingsland Road as required.

 

If you can get hold of 'Rail Centres Bristol' by Colin Maggs there is info and a picture (of Wapping) in both the editions I have.

 

You are correct about the Civil Engineers Depot, there was a trip usually Monday and Friday from and to Bristol East Depot

to move the Tunnel Train, which was comprised of various vehicles, some ex revenue earning.

 

The Chipmans/Fisons (?) weedspray train also used to work out of Ashton Meadows in season, including class 20s ISTR.

 

Towards the end of the life of the depot there was a vandalism problem at Wapping with doors being dropped,

I believe there was a secure compound at Wapping and at the close of work all hoppers still loaded were shunted in.

 

I will see if I have any other pictures worth scanning/posting,

 

cheers

 

.....edit for additional info....

Edited July 17, 2012 by Rivercider

[Rivercider]

Here is another picture I had already put on Flickr,

it was taken in 1979, and is of the second service that sometimes ran to Ashton Meadows,

 

37227 passes through Temple Meads with 8B22 11.20 Severn Tunnel Junction - Ashton Meadows, 3/12/79.

 

In 1977 when I started on BR I used to pass the early loaded coal train waiting at Parson Street

some mornings as I came up from Weston. I seem to remember seeing a brake tender on it once,

as there would have been a lot of unfitted wagons on it in the 1970s.

After the steel strike of 1980 many unfitted 21t hoppers were scrapped so it was not a problem

as there was then plenty of fitted wagons for the vacuum brake head.

 

When clearing out the Bristol TOPS office at closure, we also came across documentation dating from early 1970s

for steel traffic loaded in shochoods for Bathurst Wharf for export, which would have passed that way.

Before my time I don't know when that finished.

 

Thats all for now

 

cheers

[37114]

There was stock and track still at Ashton Meadows until the early 2000's, although has since been cleared. Look forward to seeing your finished layout, I have thought about doing it previously myself, although the next layout will be inspired by Malago Vale carriage sidings.

[Fat Controller]

Was the site exclusively for the DCE, or did the S&T have a presence there as well? Back in 1975, I was co-opted to be 'Social Secretary' for the Art College at Bower Ashton (I was at another Bristol Poly site, but we couldn't find anyone at BA to do the job), and used to walk past Ashton Meadows to get there. I'm fairly certain I remember stocks of things like location cabinets and even level crossing barriers there- I recollect there being a fairly large brick-built building on a concrete loading platform, which seems a bit over-specified if only the CCE were on site.

[Eggesford box]

Hi,

do not know if these will be much use to you. All taken on 31/05/1985 when I went down there to take photos of 46443 running a series of shuttles between Bristol Temple Meads and Whapping Wharf.

[pwilson]

Hello all

 

What a fantastic amount of information already.

 

Rivercider: Thanks for the pictures and information. By October 1978, the train was by then running to Ashton Meadows suggests that the shunter took over from then whereas before mainline locos worked all the way to Wapping Wharf. Apparently there was damage to the New Cut which may have been the reason for this.

 

Your picture of the class 37302 is running round the loaded 21t hoppers is superb. You don't happen to have a picture of the depot on the right? Also do you happen to recall what the trucks were in the siding

 

Eggesford Box: What a beautiful collection of photgraphs. The images of the train leaving Ashton Meadows and approaching the junction are the closest image I have of the depot behind. It looks like 2 tracks go into the depot from your picture and that they are split apart by a loading dock? Thanks again.

 

FC: I don't know about exclusivity and I'm afraid I don't know what S&T means? Signals and track? Is there a difference between that and the Department for Civil Engineering? Sorry bit of an amateur still!

 

Mike Vincent mentions in his book 'reflections on the Portishead branch' that the depot was built in 1960 and covered the activities previously carried out at Pylle Hill and St Phillips March and by the bridge depots at Bath Spa and Bathampton. The large brick walled building accomodated workshop and stores. Is this building in Rivercider's photo at the top? Red brick and between the sidings?

 

Really interesting to hear about stocks of things like location cabinets and even level crossing barriers there. Can you remember any of the stock in the depot itself?

 

Thanks everyone for your contributions. If any one can recollect the track plan of the depot or has pictures of the depot that would be a real asset. I have no images or a track plan of the actual depot.

 

Many thanks

 

Paul

[Fat Controller]

'S&T'- formerly 'Signals and Telegraphs'- latterly 'Signals and Telecommunications'

[Rivercider]

I'm not sure if/when the trains from Severn Tunnel went through to Wapping Wharf, the 1976 WTT entry infers it did,

but there was a class 08 pilot duty booked to shunt at Wapping Wharf and work trips to Ashton Meadows so perhaps it did not.

By 1978 the BR 08 was gone and the hoppers were tripped by the CCD pilot.

 

The damage to the wall of the new cut was a later problem, about 1982 at a guess, trains were only permitted to pass at high tide,

so trains from Severn Tunnel were only accepted when the tide was right to work the coal to the CCD, as loaded hoppers left at

Ashton Meadows would have been vandalised.

 

 

 

"Eggesford Box: What a beautiful collection of photgraphs. "

 

Agreed!

 

 

" FC: I don't know about exclusivity and I'm afraid I don't know what S&T means? Signals and track? Is there a difference between that and the Department for Civil Engineering? Sorry bit of an amateur still! "

 

I don't know about any Signal & Telegraph presence at Ashton Gate depot, I know it was the building department, and there were

plumbers electricians and carpenters employed there. I think the main rail traffic was the tunnel train which came in each monday from East Depot.

The Tunnel train would then be replenished, it conveyed all sorts in grampus/tubes/highfits etc. Things like cement mixers and generators, sand and bricks. Some of the vehicles were modified with staging for the engineering staff to work from, there were also former brake vans used as mess and tool vans. The train was not a fixed formation, some weeks it was remarshalled at the depot.

On Friday it would go back to East Depot ready for the next job.

 

cheers

 

.. edit to make more sense

Edited July 17, 2012 by Rivercider

[rob D2]

Any ideas what the big grey building is in the background ? Would make good low relief building.

[Fat Controller]

Any ideas what the big grey building is in the background ? Would make good low relief building.

I thought at first that it might be some sort of British Telecom building, but it doesn't have the normal forest of aerials on the roof. I tried having a look at Google Maps, but couldn't localise it sufficently.

There is another building in one or two of the photos which has a railway connection- Strachan and Henshaw used to manufacture those rotary wagon tipplers you'd see at power stations and so on.

[rob D2]

Hmm, that was my first thought. A BT exchange building type Thingy .

 

I'll have to have a good look at google "where did my evening go ?" earth, it's an interesting area.

 

I was with the kids at @ Bristol recently which is just across the water it seems.

[37114]

I thought at first that it might be some sort of British Telecom building, but it doesn't have the normal forest of aerials on the roof. I tried having a look at Google Maps, but couldn't localise it sufficently.

There is another building in one or two of the photos which has a railway connection- Strachan and Henshaw used to manufacture those rotary wagon tipplers you'd see at power stations and so on.

 

The building you mention is the Former Wills Tobacco warehouse, closed in the early 1990's, you won't see them on google because they were demolished by being blown up circa 1994, I stood on Bedminster Down to see it happen. The Ford Dealers now sits where they stood. To the left of them is the old Winterstoke road bus garage, which I based the model on my layout on, now long since demolished and replace with a KFC etc.

 

This thread certainly brings back memories, I used to pass by Ashton Meadows everyday on my way to School between 1982 and 1995 and can't believe how much has changed. For a while I worked for the container haulier which owned the yard near to the level crossing, and remember being disapointed to hear from one of our drivers who was also an enthuisast that the Signalbox was on fire (circa 2000) when he drove past.

Edited July 17, 2012 by 37114

[37114]

Pwilson - i take it you have seen this:

 

http://bristol-rail....Meadows_Sidings

 

The 2006 album has some shots of the building although derelict

Edited July 17, 2012 by 37114

[Rivercider]

I don't have any pictures of Ashton Gate depot, and I never visited the depot

even though I did work for the Civil Engineers in the office at Temple Meads for 15 months.

 

I have a couple of Bristol Area trip booklets, one from 1975 and one from 1982.

In the 1975 booklet Trip 21 was the Wapping Wharf pilot.

The Tunnel train was worked by an additional trip loco not shown in the trip booklet,

it ran Mondays and Fridays as required, using any mainline loco that Bath Road had I think.

 

By 1982 the only reference to Ashton Meadows was Trip 9.

 

 

Extract of Bristol Area trip booklet 5th May 1975

 

 

Extract of Bristol area trip booklet 17th May 1982

 

cheers

Edited July 17, 2012 by Rivercider

[rob D2]

Rivercider,

That's fascinating. I have a similar one for bescot trips kindly provided by an rmwebber.

 

What's really interesting is that 2 of those trips ate for 'foreign ' class 46s. I thought when these worked down west they just turned round with the next north bound freight.

 

Bridgewater , may well have included the showerings drinks traffic , " babycham" I believe. I only know that because I drink "brothers" cider.

[Rivercider]

Rivercider,

That's fascinating. I have a similar one for bescot trips kindly provided by an rmwebber.

 

What's really interesting is that 2 of those trips ate for 'foreign ' class 46s. I thought when these worked down west they just turned round with the next north bound freight.

 

.

 

I never saw the full loco diagrams, but a Gateshead loco may have arrived at 05.00 on the postal or overnight parcels

then been fuelled to go back north that evening, there were a lot of 'foreign' locos used on local trip work in the Bristol area,

 

cheers

[roundhouse]

Was the site exclusively for the DCE, or did the S&T have a presence there as well? Back in 1975, I was co-opted to be 'Social Secretary' for the Art College at Bower Ashton (I was at another Bristol Poly site, but we couldn't find anyone at BA to do the job), and used to walk past Ashton Meadows to get there. I'm fairly certain I remember stocks of things like location cabinets and even level crossing barriers there- I recollect there being a fairly large brick-built building on a concrete loading platform, which seems a bit over-specified if only the CCE were on site.

 

I used to go past this about once a week in my parents car to and from Bristol back in the early 70's and remember that structure aswell as the box and all the civil engineers wagons etc. . Unfortunately I didnt have a camera then so no photos.

 

Ian

[pwilson]

Hello again all.

 

Rivercider: The information about the tunnel train was fantastic. I found the picture below of the tunnel train which I believe to be a more modern version but are there any images of the previous train anywhere?

 

http://www.hondawanderer.com/50042_Ashton_Gate_1990.htm

 

Also with Ashton Meadows being such a large store, would inward traffic also have compromised of materials to be stored at the site?

 

37714: I am a member of that site and have those amazing images. They are the only images I haven been able to find off the actual site close up. I have never been able to find a picture of the site during operation. Maybe one day!

 

I have been trying to consider the scale of the model for awhile now. N gauge would allow for the whole site to be captured whereas OO with 6-7 wagon trains would allow for a shunting layout. I also think that removing some of the coal exchange sidings from the trackplan would be necessary too. Any thoughts?

 

Paul

[Andy Kirkham]

• There are a couple more of my instamatic pictures on the Bristol Railway Archive site http://bristol-rail.co.uk/wiki/File:Ashton_Swing_Bridge12.jpg and http://bristol-rail.co.uk/wiki/File:Cumberland_Siding3.jpg, showing main-line locos running beyond Ashton Meadows in the early 1970's. I think the era during which Type 4's worked along that stretch was quite short - before then I remember 08s and I have seen a photo of a Class 22 running alongside Cumberland Road
  

[Fat Controller]

• There are a couple more of my instamatic pictures on the Bristol Railway Archive site http://bristol-rail....ng_Bridge12.jpg and http://bristol-rail....and_Siding3.jpg, showing main-line locos running beyond Ashton Meadows in the early 1970's. I think the era during which Type 4's worked along that stretch was quite short - before then I remember 08s and I have seen a photo of a Class 22 running alongside Cumberland Road
  

Andy,

I presume that large building is the Wills Tobacco Warehouse? If so, what is the light-coloured building with much bigger windows that appears in some of the other shots?

[br2975]

Paul,

 

Have you tried the 'Mystery Photos' page of the RCTS website ?

 

There are a number of photos on the site taken on a railtour, 31st. May, 1969.

 

There is a search facility - just search on 'Bristol' in the location box.

 

The negatives are No's Y-100-18 to Y-100-37

 

These links should get you to the page (over to you Mr Starter !).

 

http://www.rcts.org.uk/features/mysteryphotos/show.htm?location=Bristol&serial=7&img=Y-100-23

 

http://www.rcts.org.uk/features/mysteryphotos/show.htm?location=Bristol&serial=8&img=Y-100-24

 

Brian R

[Rivercider]

Hello again all.

 

Rivercider: The information about the tunnel train was fantastic. I found the picture below of the tunnel train which I believe to be a more modern version but are there any images of the previous train anywhere?

 

http://www.hondawand...n_Gate_1990.htm

 

Also with Ashton Meadows being such a large store, would inward traffic also have compromised of materials to be stored at the site?

 

 

I have been trying to consider the scale of the model for awhile now. N gauge would allow for the whole site to be captured whereas OO with 6-7 wagon trains would allow for a shunting layout. I also think that removing some of the coal exchange sidings from the trackplan would be necessary too. Any thoughts?

 

Paul

 

Paul,

 

that picture is of a later tunnel train, the one I remember from approx 1978-85 was vacuum braked or piped,

there was usually a brake van on each end, and it could number from about 5 or 6 wagons up to 12-14 depending the weekend job.

I have not been able to find a pic of the earlier train(s) so far, I don't remember taking one.

 

I can not remember any other regular inwards traffic, but it was a long time ago.

If any stores came in by rail it would likely be timber for the carpenters shop, maybe sand or chippings,

and possibly concrete components / troughing from somewhere like Taunton concrete works.

 

FWIW I think a condensed version would make an interesting shunting layout, it is by nature a compact site anyway.

 

I have also found another document that I saved when Bristol TOPS was closing,

it is the 'BR TOPS PRE-IMPLEMENTATION SURVEY,' August 1972 Edition

It gives details of Yards, Customers, staffing and traffic levels for the proposed Bristol West Depot I.S.C. Area.

There are also some rudimentary maps and yard plans drawn by the team.

In the event there was no TOPS office at West Depot, it was at Temple Meads instead.

 

I will try to scan some of the relevant pages and post later,

 

cheers

 

I will

[Rivercider]

These are 4 relevant pages copied from the 'BR TOPS PRE-IMPLEMENTATION SURVEY' August 72 Edition

Bristol West Depot Yard & I.S.C. (What does I.S.C. stand for?)

 

 

Plan of Ashton Meadows Sdgs

 

Bristol Wapping Wharf

 

P.B.A Princes Wharf/Bathurst Wharf P.S.

 

Plan of Bristol Wapping Wharf

 

 

On another page, giving totals of train arrivals/departures, Wapping Wharf has 2 arrivals,

whereas Ashton Meadows is listed as 1 departure. Does this mean the incoming coal is brought to Wapping by the mainline loco,

but it then goes light to Ashton Meadows to pick up empties already tripped out and formed up?

 

Wapping Wharf had a staff of 1 grade A Suoervisor (07.00 - 16.00), 4 Senior Railmen, and 4 Railmen,

there was no staff at Ashton Meadows.

 

 

cheers

[Fat Controller]

Imperial Smelting Corporation? These were the people who had the smelter off Smoke Lane in Avonmouth, which generated quite a bit of rail traffic in the 1970s.